[NF] THe "Crazy" "Paranoid" NF

[Santosha]

Do you ever find it difficult to prove your intuition?

This has been a life long struggle for me, literally since childhood. And the strangest thing? I've found more sensor feelers that consider my hunches plausible than intuitive thinkers. (Perhaps the feeling element?) .. While I do believe it's possible for us NF's to get paranoid from time to time.. (especially with depression or self-esteem issues) I don't believe that we are just all paranoid crackpots. Infact, I know we are not (atleast I'm not). The ability to read people through non-verbal communication.. the ability to read between the lines, and follow patterns into the future can make us fantastic predictors of human behavior. BUt try telling a strong ST or NT why you think your friends boyfriend is cheating, why you think a co-worker might be fired soon, why you can trust someone you've met twice, etc.. and they think your crazy! Or out there, or whatever. It's only after the truth comes out.. which can take years at times.. that they go "Gee, I guess you were right about that. How did you know?" Since I was very young I've been able to see the writing on the wall about certain people. Things that even my parents, with 25 yrs on me didn't pick up on!

I remember as young kids there was a house down the street where this guy named Pat lived alone. He was probably 30. He would always have candy, kids toys, etc. at his house. The neighborhood kids LOVED going to play there. He always had this weird, fakey demeanor, like he was the nicest guy in the world, right? And the parents of the neighborhood didn't even mind there 5 and 6 yr olds going over to Pats. They'd even call him to babysit. I remember sitting in his living room and watching him bounce a kid on his knee, I was about 7 at the time. I could see from the kids expression that they didn't really like it, and they'd try to kinda push away, but he'd just grab them and keep doing it. I'd watch his eyes, his expressions, and the desperation I'd sense when the kids would go home. It was an instant flash.. he was all nice and sweet until a kid tried to push him away. And for a split second he'd drop his mask and I'd see that he was dangerously angry and frusterated. And I just knew he was a perve. So I told my mom.. and she pretty much disregarded it, though she never let me go to Pats again, which I didn't really care about at all. Years later, when I was about 20.. shit hit the fan and we found out he had molested like 15 kids in our neighborhood.

The same thing happened with a 6th grade teacher in my school. Everyone thought he was the coolest teacher, as he'd play alot of games, and talk to kids on equal levels, follow young kid trends. Everyone wanted to be in his class. But I noticed this pattern with him, a constant focus on the really pretty little girls in class, he'd play favorites by this, and he'd get really grabby during recess and sports. When I was about 16 I found out he got fired for kissing kids.

The thing that really sucks about intuition, is that sometimes you can't prove it. Like I couldn't prove that my good friends new girlfriend was going to cheat on him. But I knew it. I knew it because everytime we threw a party, she'd have two beers and fall all over the place claiming to be "so drunk" and just feed off the attention she'd get from other guys. I'd find her being overly flirtatious with our guy friends. She'd play up the incapeable girl act and try to get guys to come over to her place all the time to fix or help with various things, instead of asking her boyfriend or trying to do it herself. I'd try to get her to come do girl stuff, and she never had any interest in it. I'd try to subtley point these things out to him.. but his judgment was so clouded with fantastic sex. Sure enough, she ended up cheating on him with 2 other so called friends. Broke his heart.

I wonder how you other NF's handle things like this. Situations where you can just tell someone is off, but trying to convince others just makes you look paranoid, crazy, or even jealous. Do you usually air your feelings on the matter? Or just stay out of it until the shit goes down?

 

[Amargith]

I've gotten to the point where I try to just smile, shrug and move on. If people don't wanna believe me, who am I to make them believe me? All i can do is give them my opinion when they ask for it and answer their questions as good as I can. After that, they're on their own, especially if what I have to say doesn't resonate with them. I used to get pissy and frustrated (and sometimes I still do when I get triggered on my pet peeves), and wanna communicate even more to convince them, but I've come to the realisation that usually that makes you look even more like a 'crackpot' coz you get passionate/'craaaazyyyy' about defending something that they don't see. If they're in your life a lot and they respect you, they'll either give you the benefit of the doubt, or they'll realize with time that you're not that crazy as what you said seems to make sense once they deal with the situation they asked you stuff on in the first place. The thing is, if you go 'crazy' on them and hammering that you're seeing something they don't, they're unlikely to wanna acknowledge that or face that later on, even if you're correct, so...no point. Sometimes I feel like Cassandra, for that reason.

Eventually it's a dog pointing at a rainbow and trying to convince the rest of his pack that it *really* is there (note: dogs are colourblind). So it's kinda understandable that they look at you like you're nuts, I guess.

 

[nolla]

I usually don't tell people my intuitions directly. They will eventually come to talk to me about their problems, and I can direct the discussion to what I've "known" to be wrong. This way they will find the evidence they need to see, and then they make up their minds to either direction. I've found it hard to convince anyone of anything they are not willing to see, so I don't beat myself up for not forcing them to see it.

 

[Qlip]

The worst part is for a long time I was convinced by others that my hunches and realizations were incorrect, when they were in fact on the money and were just being denied. It makes me angry all of the years I've lived thinking that I was paranoid, or that I was imagining things when the fact of the matter was that I was right. Now I feel confident enough to not bother checking, I just assume I'm right until proven otherwise.

 

[Amargith]

^i hear ya on that as well

 

[EJCC]

The worst part is for a long time I was convinced by others that my hunches and realizations were incorrect, when they were in fact on the money and were just being denied. It makes me angry all of the years I've lived thinking that I was paranoid, or that I was imagining things when the fact of the matter was that I was right. Now I feel confident enough to not bother checking, I just assume I'm right until proven otherwise.

Way to embrace your Te!

This thread is so intriguing. I thought the hard-to-explain intuition thing was related to Ni, not Ne. And yet all these INFPs are posting here about how they relate. Do you guys think it's Fi/Ne, or something? Sensing patterns with Ne and drawing a conclusion with Fi? But that doesn't explain the difficulty verbalizing how you came to the conclusion...

 

[Amargith]

Fi is hard to explain...especially to Ti-users ime.

 

[nolla]

Do you guys think it's Fi/Ne, or something? Sensing patterns with Ne and drawing a conclusion with Fi? But that doesn't explain the difficulty verbalizing how you came to the conclusion...

It is much like a hunch. In most cases there is no evidence, in some cases I can rationalize it but I am well aware that most of the clues for this rationalization could have been interpreted differently. A common example of my intuition is that I sense that there is something wrong with a person. I think this is because their body language is not in sync with their verbal message, or that their body language is giving mixed signals all the time in a way I can't interpret. I'll watch out when in presence of such a person.

 

[Santosha]

For me its not the difficulty in verbalizing my intuition, I can lay out how this with this and that have all linked up to make X the likely, its just like Nolla mentions.. these clues seem to lead some to think.. "okay. It is what it is." and others to say "No.. this is what it really means." I do think that NF's are good in understanding the meaning behind the act. Even the tiniest, most subtle tone or expression. Since I believe Qlippoth is ENFP.. I'm not sure if this is Fi/Ne or Ne/Fi.

 

[Thalassa]

It's interesting that you've had a similar experience to me with Sensing Feelers. I think that's why I keep dating Sensing Feeling men, because the kind of "intuition" you're speaking of is not MBTI "Intuition" it's actually something else, I believe for whatever reason it's more prominent in feelers. ESFJs are excellent at reading facial expressions and body language, and blah blah blah.

So you're mixing the two things up, IMO.

MBTI Intuition is more like preferring theory, making up theories (like ISFJ said the other night "every single thing does not have deeper meaning !!!111") or possibly having strange beliefs or ideations because of your imagination.

I think one way my Ne, specifically, seems "crazy" is that I piece things together and sometimes come up with wild creative explanations for why something happened if I don't have all the details. It's like I'm making up a story for why or how something happened. I call it my "jumping to conclusions mat."

 

[CzeCze]

Life makes you crazy. I think a challenge for Fi users - particularly XNFPs - is learning to trust your gut and learning how and when your gut is accurate (and when it's not). I guess it's not necessarily that it's Fi that is accurate or not, but that "gut feeling" I think it's harder for INFPs than for ENFPs to articulate to others what their Fi is telling them.

Developing and trusting intuition takes time, more for some than for others.

Everyone has to learn to stick to their guns when they know something is 'right' whether or not they are ultimately correct. Part of it is a leap of faith. Part of it is predetermined by how we're wired. Part of it is asserting your ego on the world and your right to exist.

Damn...am I making any sense today? Bah.

But yeah, once you hone it and work out the kinks and basically once you trust your intuition, stick to your guns.

Of course, you will probably annoy the shit out of non Fi users, and some other Fi users who don't understand your reasoning. LOLOL.

 

[Qlip]

For me its not the difficulty in verbalizing my intuition, I can lay out how this with this and that have all linked up to make X the likely, its just like Nolla mentions.. these clues seem to lead some to think.. "okay. It is what it is." and others to say "No.. this is what it really means." I do think that NF's are good in understanding the meaning behind the act. Even the tiniest, most subtle tone or expression. Since I believe Qlippoth is ENFP.. I'm not sure if this is Fi/Ne or Ne/Fi.

I'm eternally confused about my type.. but I agree with you guys completely. I know things but I don't use some sort of logical reasoning process to figure them out. But I can draw a line between points, I can rationalize a logical connection. The types of things that I figure that I 'know' is a person's internal motivations, but these are notoriously tricky to confirm. It has a lot to do with things fitting, the shapes of actions not going with the circumstances. I guess it does trigger more when there's a mismatch.

EDIT: Reading CzeCze's and Marm's post, Holy crap.. I probably am an NF. I didn't really really believe it. I always have some sort of multi branched narrative going in my head as to why someone did something. I know it may not be true.. but I just treat it as so.

My satisfaction in life went up like 10x when I learned to trust myself.

 

[011235813]

I barely identify with this. In fact, I often feel like the most rational, cool-headed one in a family of Ni doms/auxes. In more N/S balanced environments like school, I developed a reputation for eccentricity and spaciness perhaps, but definitely not one of paranoia. Do I follow new ideas as and when they come up? Sure. I wouldn't call them hunches or gut feelings though. It's more about exploring and having fun with thoughts and thinking (oooh is what I think would happen actually going to happen when I press this big shiny red button?!), not necessarily a guide to action.

 

[Viridian]

Way to embrace your Te!

This thread is so intriguing. I thought the hard-to-explain intuition thing was related to Ni, not Ne. And yet all these INFPs are posting here about how they relate. Do you guys think it's Fi/Ne, or something? Sensing patterns with Ne and drawing a conclusion with Fi? But that doesn't explain the difficulty verbalizing how you came to the conclusion...

I don't think it's exclusive to Fi/Te, EJCC - I've heard quite a few INFJs feel that "There's something rotten in Denmark" sensation...

 

[EJCC]

I don't think it's exclusive to Fi/Te, EJCC - I've heard quite a few INFJs feel that "There's something rotten in Denmark" sensation...

Oh, I'm very familiar with INFJ intuition... speaking as someone with a nagging INFJ parent. And that's why I'm so confused by this thread. I guess, recently, I've gotten so into function analysis that I have a hard time thinking of INFP intuition and INFJ intuition as being even remotely the same thing. I don't think I would ever describe an NFP as being "crazy"/"paranoid" -- I might hear an NFP's particularly outlandish-seeming statements and think of them as being naive, too quick to believe things, or just stubbornly unwilling to fact-check, but I would never think of them as paranoid.

Can any of you guys give an example of a time when you had an intuition that everyone thought was crazy, and then was proven true? Humor me; I'm an SJ and I always need concrete examples.

I barely identify with this. In fact, I often feel like the most rational, cool-headed one in a family of Ni doms/auxes. In more N/S balanced environments like school, I developed a reputation for eccentricity and spaciness perhaps, but definitely not one of paranoia. Do I follow new ideas as and when they come up? Sure. I wouldn't call them hunches or gut feelings though. It's more about exploring and having fun with thoughts and thinking (oooh is what I think would happen actually going to happen when I press this big shiny red button?!), not necessarily a guide to action.

This is more in line with what I knew about NFPs, i.e. that the "craziness" comes from Ne -- just like with NTPs. Because I can be the same way, when my Ne shows itself. I definitely relate to aspects of this post, because a lot of people's first impressions of me are based on enthusiastic Ne "eccentricity".

 

[Thalassa]

I think Ni is more "paranoid" and Ne "connects the dots" more (and sometimes connects those dots wrongly)...like Ni is the visionary (and sometimes that vision is a little off) and Ne is the one who sees patterns, like how Huxley noticed patterns in her teachers behavior. That's not "a gut feeling" or a "hunch." That's her noticing a pattern in someone's behavior with Ne and if she was an adult she could have articulated it more clearly.

I'm still thinking hunches and gut feelings are a Feeler thing. Or reading body language/facial expression. "Feeling" that something is wrong with your best friend, sister, or mate. Et al. I think all Feelers can do this unless they're very close to Thinking or they're just not very bright. It is not exclusive to NFs. The two things are not the same thing.

 

[Santosha]

I meant that when an NFP tries to convey a connection or a hunch, to someone wanting more concrete information.. they will often here "thats crazy" or "your being paranoid". Not that the NFP actually feels crazy or paranoid. Though I have seen a few ENFP's become paranoid in times of stress, believing that people are talking about them, possibly plotting against them, or that SO's are cheating on them. Paranoid is probably a better word for Ni.. crazy for Ne. And I very well could be describing something that is not mbti intution, or rather that feeling can be very interwoven with intuition.

 

[Thalassa]

I meant that when an NFP tries to convey a connection or a hunch, to someone wanting more concrete information.. they will often here "thats crazy" or "your being paranoid". Not that the NFP actually feels crazy or paranoid. Though I have seen a few ENFP's become paranoid in times of stress, believing that people are talking about them, possibly plotting against them, or that SO's are cheating on them. Paranoid is probably a better word for Ni.. crazy for Ne. And I very well could be describing something that is not mbti intution, or rather that feeling can be very interwoven with intuition.

Okay, I can see where you're coming from. Like I'll say someone "feels" like an Sensing Thinker to me (for example) without explaining with any specific details. That's pretty much a sure way to drive an Sensing Thinker batshit, btw.

I think the reason why I like SFJs is because they can be kinder about my "crazies" but still supply me with information, like they fill in details with their Si, or encourage me to re-read something instead of immediately reacting in an emotional way.

NTJs and NFJs can kind of do this, too. Though with NTJs they just say, "settle down, here are the facts" ...which feels similar to an SFJ to me, except it's much more rational and cool-headed instead of understanding and comforting, but it has a similar result.

I know what what you're talking about.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I've never been accused of being paranoid, honestly. Maybe it's just the people I know (lots of SFs in my family, who often get "hunches" about people based on sensory stuff they pick up aided by Feeling), but when I suspect something, most people find it reasonable. It's likely because I do tend to find a line of reasoning to back up my "hunches". I think it's common for Ns to start with a conclusion & work backwards if necessary.

I have to admit that when I was younger I did not trust what I called "feelings", but I realize those were often "intuitions" (in MBTI terms), as my feeling-reasoning dismissed anything seemingly irrational. These intuitions were conclusions I had drawn from "out of nowhere", but being a dominant rational type (Fi-dom), I always felt that everything needed a solid reason behind it (and there was some inferior Te insecurity; I was aware of not being good at judging what is factual reality). If I could not evaluate something because there was nothing there, then I'd dismiss those intuitions, which essentially belittled my own viewpoint & inhibited me from acting on them. I trust them more now, & act on my Ne inspirations more, but I always seek to explain things rationally to others still. I think this is likely more typical with Ji-doms who use Ne-aux than N-doms. I wonder if ENJs do the same....

On the other hand, I've found my Fi feelings trivialized & invalidated because they are hard to support/explain also. By feelings, I mean my valuations, especially the ones I've formed for myself (less so the "universal" values). People often could not fathom or would not accept that I felt differently from others on key matters. This was NOT iNtuition though, but a matter of Fi judgment.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

I find two things helpful.

Knowing what organically throws me off balance and makes me that paranoid NF at times (for me: low-blood sugar, PMS, illness, fatigue, losing part of my support system, hunger, etc), and using that self awareness to know when to grab some time alone and take care of myself instead of getting caught up in a whirlwind of shadowy theory or hunches. If I follow my suspicions while I'm in "the dark place", I have about a 50/50 chance of hitting the nail on the head. Not good enough.

Secondly, I try to chose whom I share my thoughts with very carefully, and I chose how I present it wisely. My most "out there" (but deeply urgent) intuitions are typically reserved for those very near and dear to my heart, to nurture and protect them. In those relationships, if I've been responsible enough with my intuition, I tend to have the "clout" required to have them hear me when I voice a concern. In larger groups of people, it helps me to ruminate on my "hunch" long enough to have reasonable evidence to at least point people in the right direction. Often, others have observational or research skills that far outstrip mine, and all they need is a nudge in the right direction to turn up actual info. It's all about chosing your audience, timing and delivery prudently.