[MBTI General] INTPs

[The_World_As_Will]

Hello there lovely INFPs!


I'm here to ask one simple question. What do you think/feel about us INTPs?

Both praise AND criticism are highly encouraged. I know you INFPs care about not hurting other peoples feelings more then the average person. Don't do that here! Crush us like bugs if you think/feel we deserve it.

 

[BAJ]

I like INTPs. That said, many people who seem to HATE me are INTPs. Or put it this way: I primarily posted at INTPc for a few years, and maybe it is my fault, but I did not make much friends there...at least not like at TYPOc.

I've had a few INTPs irl. My bro in law is INTP, and he's like the main family member that I feel a lot of affinity for in terms of things he's interested in.

Sometimes as co-workers/ employees they are sloppy or undisciplined, but more fun to discuss with or talk to, if that makes sense.

 

[King sns]

I like INTPs. That said, many people who seem to HATE me are INTPs. Or put it this way: I primarily posted at INTPc for a few years, and maybe it is my fault, but I did not make much friends there...at least not like at TYPOc.

I've had a few INTPs irl. My bro in law is INTP, and he's like the main family member that I feel a lot of affinity for in terms of things he's interested in.

Sometimes as co-workers/ employees they are sloppy or undisciplined, but more fun to discuss with or talk to, if that makes sense.

I noticed that I get along better with real life INTP's than online. I think that they are ones who I don't understand as well without the body language, facial expressions, and voice to go with it. Sometimes I notice that there are a lot online that seem harsh, disagreeable, sometimes downright ornery in writing. In real life, I imagine the INTP may say the exact same words and come off completely different than they would if they were to say them in person. INTP's in the flesh can disagree with things but make it sound like an interesting open ended discussion rather than an argument. Sometimes I just have to translate that in my head while I'm reading posts online. (Not all obviously.)

(Sorry, not an INFP, didn't read the OP before posting, just wanted to comment on the one post.)

 

[Anew Leaf]

I have an INTP dad, and several INTP friends. I 'em for the most part.

Like:

• funny
• Smart
• Surprisingly sweet
• Intelligent conversations
• Good one-on-one connections
• Flexible but not doormats
• Rare smiles are fun to earn
• Silly side
• Want their own alone time and respect others' needs for one as well

Dislike:

• I'm always a little wary of saying the magical wrong thing that makes them unleash their Ti full force on me in punishment.
• When they over explain and aren't picking up on my cues to stop.
  

 

[I Never Find Peace]

I love the combination of logic and intuition that makes INTPs such great programmers and mathematicians. They can also be highly creative, especially as writers, and are extremely inspiring and interesting to talk to.

The blunt lack of tact is the biggest problem I have with INTPs. I need to hear words of affirmation, and was recently refused that by an INTP because it wasn't a logical request.

 

[INTPness]

I noticed that I get along better with real life INTP's than online. I think that they are ones who I don't understand as well without the body language, facial expressions, and voice to go with it. Sometimes I notice that there are a lot online that seem harsh, disagreeable, sometimes downright ornery in writing. In real life, I imagine the INTP may say the exact same words and come off completely different than they would if they were to say them in person. INTP's in the flesh can disagree with things but make it sound like an interesting open ended discussion rather than an argument. Sometimes I just have to translate that in my head while I'm reading posts online. (Not all obviously.)

(Sorry, not an INFP, didn't read the OP before posting, just wanted to comment on the one post.)

I would say that in writing, I am more likely to emit pure Ti - more of an immovable stance on things. In person, since I extrovert with Ne and Fe, I'm going to come off as much more agreeable and flexible.

People like us when we're more flexible, but also I find that I sometimes sacrifice my original stance on something and end up regretting it. For instance, I may go into a situation with a very firm personal opinion or stance (Ti) and thinking to myself, "This is what I believe and this is what is important to me and I don't want to sacrifice that." Then, when I get into the extroverted environment and am actually dealing with people, I sometimes feel like I'm ruled by Ne/Fe and so I'll end up giving in or saying "Oh, OK...that's fine" for the sake of keeping the peace/being nice. Then, when I leave and I'm by myself again, I think, "Why in the world did I do that? So stupid! I just sacrificed what's important to me. Now I'm not going to like the results and am going to have to live with them."

So, it's a catch-22 for the INTP. We can be use our Ti and get what we want, get results, and lose friends in the process. Or, we can use Fe/Ne and everyone likes us, but we've sacrificed a lot of things that are important to us and we can even end up looking like a bit of a doormat in the process. It's sometimes a challenge to find that "middle ground" where we are standing firm to our convictions, yet still being likeable.

 

[King sns]

I would say that in writing, I am more likely to emit pure Ti - more of an immovable stance on things. In person, since I extrovert with Ne and Fe, I'm going to come off as much more agreeable and flexible.

People like us when we're more flexible, but also I find that I sometimes sacrifice my original stance on something and end up regretting it. For instance, I may go into a situation with a very firm personal opinion or stance (Ti) and thinking to myself, "This is what I believe and this is what is important to me and I don't want to sacrifice that." Then, when I get into the extroverted environment and am actually dealing with people, I sometimes feel like I'm ruled by Ne/Fe and so I'll end up giving in or saying "Oh, OK...that's fine" for the sake of keeping the peace/being nice. Then, when I leave and I'm by myself again, I think, "Why in the world did I do that? So stupid! I just sacrificed what's important to me. Now I'm not going to like the results and am going to have to live with them."

So, it's a catch-22 for the INTP. We can be use our Ti and get what we want, get results, and lose friends in the process. Or, we can use Fe/Ne and everyone likes us, but we've sacrificed a lot of things that are important to us and we can even end up looking like a bit of a doormat in the process. It's sometimes a challenge to find that "middle ground" where we are standing firm to our convictions, yet still being likeable.

I agree. Well, that's why I like INTP's in general. They can have a very unique opinion on something but in conversation, they seem like they are listening to my perspective (and others) as well, and taking it into consideration. It seems indecisive, but it's probably the best way to make conclusions. I like their calm and accommodating real life presence. (Which I suspect that some on here have but can't show in plain words, though some do... it just takes a lot more work to articulate your meaning without having the "in person" benefits. ) A person coming off as plain Ti sounds just plain disagreeable to me. (You have rarely or never come off this way, though, FWIW.)

 

[INTPness]

I have an INTP dad, and several INTP friends. I 'em for the most part.

Like:

• funny
• Smart
• Surprisingly sweet
• Intelligent conversations
• Good one-on-one connections
• Flexible but not doormats

Thanks!

[*]Rare smiles are fun to earn

G'luck with that one! :hi:

Dislike:
I'm always a little wary of saying the magical wrong thing that makes them unleash their Ti full force on me in punishment.

Hmmm. Main thing I'd say here is that if we say something in a lighthearted conversation (Ne/Fe), then don't worry too much about what we've said - we're just being light. But, if we communicate something to you via Ti in a "serious conversation" or a "serious moment" or a somewhat serious statement, take those things seriously. Like if I calmly say, "I'm really getting ticked off at work". That means: I'm REALLY getting ticked off at work. Or if we calmly say, "I've hashed out this issue with you a million times and I don't want to hash it out anymore. We're now officially beating a dead horse." That means: I've officially reached my breaking point on this issue. Don't bring it up anymore and don't push me on the issue. (Unless. You. Want. To.) Bringing it up again, or challening me *again* - would only rip off my nice Ne/Fe layers and expose Ti in a much more raw form. If Ti has "taken a firm stance" on the issue, then it's most likely not going to budge if you push even harder. All that's going to happen is that instead of talking to a brick wall (Ti) with a big soft pad covering it (Ne/Fe), now the pad will be gone and you'll be staring the brick wall right in the face - with no buffer and no niceties to mask it.

When they over explain and aren't picking up on my cues to stop.

Haha. Sometimes you just have to say it. "OK, dude, I get it. You don't have to go on anymore. I really do get it. Thanks." Or, "OK, I get it. Can we talk about something else? (with a smily face). We're probably oblivious at the moment to our rambling, so unless someone says something to snap us out of it, well, get ready to keep listening. It's been my experience that all NP's have a tendency to ramble if they're given the floor about something they care about or are passionate about. I recently had to tell an ENFP after literally 20 minutes of a story that was going NOWHERE, "Hey, sorry to do this, but for the sake of time I'm going to have to cut you off. We'll have to continue this conversation another time, unless you were going to finish in the next minute or two."

Sometimes you just gotta say it. It might have been harsh at the moment, but we're still friends and everything is good. And I get a bonus too: She knows not to ramble on forever with me in the future. Win-win.

 

[INTPness]

I agree. Well, that's why I like INTP's in general. They can have a very unique opinion on something but in conversation, they seem like they are listening to my perspective (and others) as well, and taking it into consideration. It seems indecisive, but it's probably the best way to make conclusions. I like their calm and accommodating real life presence. (Which I suspect that some on here have but can't show in plain words, though some do... it just takes a lot more work to articulate your meaning without having the "in person" benefits. ) A person coming off as plain Ti sounds just plain disagreeable to me. (You have rarely or never come off this way, though, FWIW.)

Well, yes, Ti can be very immovable when it wants to stand up for something. There are times where it's good and times where it's bad. Recently, I had a situation where a friend needed my help in her business class - writing a business plan, market evaluation, etc. Very detailed, time consuming stuff. I said, "I have no problem helping you, but DO NOT throw it on my lap at the last minute and expect a miracle." Didn't hear anything for 3 weeks. Suddenly got an e-mail saying, "OMG...please help. This is due tomorrow and I need help. Yes, I waited till the last minute. Sorry. Please help. Documents attached." Ti: Delete e-mail. I don't have time for the nonsense. Sometimes people just have to learn the hard way.

I also have a family member who is racist and who thinks that white people are inherently "better" (whatever that means) than people of all other races. It's pure ignorance, it's ridiculous, and I refuse to tolerate it. So, at family gatherings, when this person begins to rant, I shut it down and I shut it down hard. There have been tears before because of my Ti comments. I absolutely refuse to budge in this situation. I have friend, dear friends, of various races. People are people and we all have value. So, go ahead and spout your ignorance when I'm not in your presence, but don't invite me to a gathering and then make it a point to spout off. I will take an extremely firm stance and you won't like it.

So, it just depends on what the topic is and how the other person is using it. I have another ENFP friend (not picking on them), but she prides herself on being "non-judgmental". She's an extreme liberal and accepts everyone. Fine. That's great. But, another friend of ours said that his grandpa carries a gun when he goes into the city. The ENFP immediately judged him. Rolled her eyes and went "Who would carry a gun? What a hick!" So, OK, you hate judgmental people, but you just judged. Go figure. Ti has a way of seeing this stuff all over the place - inconsistencies, hypocrisy, etc. And it's infuriating.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Haha. Sometimes you just have to say it. "OK, dude, I get it. You don't have to go on anymore. I really do get it. Thanks." Or, "OK, I get it. Can we talk about something else? (with a smily face). We're probably oblivious at the moment to our rambling, so unless someone says something to snap us out of it, well, get ready to keep listening. It's been my experience that all NP's have a tendency to ramble if they're given the floor about something they care about or are passionate about. I recently had to tell an ENFP after literally 20 minutes of a story that was going NOWHERE, "Hey, sorry to do this, but for the sake of time I'm going to have to cut you off. We'll have to continue this conversation another time, unless you were going to finish in the next minute or two."

Sometimes you just gotta say it. It might have been harsh at the moment, but we're still friends and everything is good. And I get a bonus too: She knows not to ramble on forever with me in the future. Win-win.

Actually this level of cluelessness I only experience with my dad... who never gets it when I try and prompt him to stop.

Example from last night:

Dad: So, I need your help on something.
Me: I am all ears.
Dad: I am not sure how or if I should invite your Aunt to my wedding in October.
Me: Hmm, yeah I see what you mean. Let me think on this a couple days and I will get back to you.
Dad: Well, because you see there are many different sides to this...
Me: Yup, I see them all. I'll come up with a solution for you in a couple days.
Dad: Well, because you may not realize that this could be awkward.
Me: Dad, Got it. Lots of variables. Lots of emotions. I am on it like Oprah on a baked ham.
Dad: Well, maybe you haven't thought about how it could be hard for her to attend?
Me: Dad, I get it. It's ok. Just leave it to me.
Dad: Well... I know you think you see everything but have you thought of....
Me: *wanting to tear eyeballs out* Dad.... Either you trust me with this or you don't.
Dad: Oh I trust you!

Add in another painful 10 minutes and you may begin to see the picture.

Hmmm. Main thing I'd say here is that if we say something in a lighthearted conversation (Ne/Fe), then don't worry too much about what we've said - we're just being light. But, if we communicate something to you via Ti in a "serious conversation" or a "serious moment" or a somewhat serious statement, take those things seriously. Like if I calmly say, "I'm really getting ticked off at work". That means: I'm REALLY getting ticked off at work. Or if we calmly say, "I've hashed out this issue with you a million times and I don't want to hash it out anymore. We're now officially beating a dead horse." That means: I've officially reached my breaking point on this issue. Don't bring it up anymore and don't push me on the issue. (Unless. You. Want. To.) Bringing it up again, or challening me *again* - would only rip off my nice Ne/Fe layers and expose Ti in a much more raw form. If Ti has "taken a firm stance" on the issue, then it's most likely not going to budge if you push even harder. All that's going to happen is that instead of talking to a brick wall (Ti) with a big soft pad covering it (Ne/Fe), now the pad will be gone and you'll be staring the brick wall right in the face - with no buffer and no niceties to mask it.

Hmm, ok this is a better explanation. And makes sense.

 

[INTPness]

Actually this level of cluelessness I only experience with my dad... who never gets it when I try and prompt him to stop.

Example from last night:

Dad: So, I need your help on something.
Me: I am all ears.
Dad: I am not sure how or if I should invite your Aunt to my wedding in October.
Me: Hmm, yeah I see what you mean. Let me think on this a couple days and I will get back to you.
Dad: Well, because you see there are many different sides to this...
Me: Yup, I see them all. I'll come up with a solution for you in a couple days.
Dad: Well, because you may not realize that this could be awkward.
Me: Dad, Got it. Lots of variables. Lots of emotions. I am on it like Oprah on a baked ham.
Dad: Well, maybe you haven't thought about how it could be hard for her to attend?
Me: Dad, I get it. It's ok. Just leave it to me.
Dad: Well... I know you think you see everything but have you thought of....
Me: *wanting to tear eyeballs out* Dad.... Either you trust me with this or you don't.
Dad: Oh I trust you!

Add in another painful 10 minutes and you may begin to see the picture.

He's agonizing over the decision. It's a difficult decision for him and it's very important to him to get it right. He doesn't want to do the wrong thing and live to regret it, so he's distressed.

 

[Anew Leaf]

He's agonizing over the decision. It's a difficult decision for him and it's very important to him to get it right. He doesn't want to do the wrong thing and live to regret it, so he's distressed.

Thanks for the insight. As always, makes so much more sense spoken plainly like that... I should go turn in my empathy button since it's clearly not working.

 

[King sns]

Well, yes, Ti can be very immovable when it wants to stand up for something. There are times where it's good and times where it's bad. Recently, I had a situation where a friend needed my help in her business class - writing a business plan, market evaluation, etc. Very detailed, time consuming stuff. I said, "I have no problem helping you, but DO NOT throw it on my lap at the last minute and expect a miracle." Didn't hear anything for 3 weeks. Suddenly got an e-mail saying, "OMG...please help. This is due tomorrow and I need help. Yes, I waited till the last minute. Sorry. Please help. Documents attached." Ti: Delete e-mail. I don't have time for the nonsense. Sometimes people just have to learn the hard way.

I also have a family member who is racist and who thinks that white people are inherently "better" (whatever that means) than people of all other races. It's pure ignorance, it's ridiculous, and I refuse to tolerate it. So, at family gatherings, when this person begins to rant, I shut it down and I shut it down hard. There have been tears before because of my Ti comments. I absolutely refuse to budge in this situation. I have friend, dear friends, of various races. People are people and we all have value. So, go ahead and spout your ignorance when I'm not in your presence, but don't invite me to a gathering and then make it a point to spout off. I will take an extremely firm stance and you won't like it.

So, it just depends on what the topic is and how the other person is using it. I have another ENFP friend (not picking on them), but she prides herself on being "non-judgmental". She's an extreme liberal and accepts everyone. Fine. That's great. But, another friend of ours said that his grandpa carries a gun when he goes into the city. The ENFP immediately judged him. Rolled her eyes and went "Who would carry a gun? What a hick!" So, OK, you hate judgmental people, but you just judged. Go figure. Ti has a way of seeing this stuff all over the place - inconsistencies, hypocrisy, etc. And it's infuriating.

Huh. That's strange. I actually can relate a lot to this definition of Ti. However, the examples you gave could possibly cross over to Fi, standing up for what is right. I do also notice inconsistencies frequently, but often primarily from a humanistic stance. (And sometimes from other stances as well.) Reading this post actually helps me understand Ti a lot better and realize what it is, though before it was more of a "vibe" thing.

 

[INTPness]

Huh. That's strange. I actually can relate a lot to this definition of Ti. However, the examples you gave could possibly cross over to Fi, standing up for what is right. I do also notice inconsistencies frequently, but often primarily from a humanistic stance. (And sometimes from other stances as well.) Reading this post actually helps me understand Ti a lot better and realize what it is, though before it was more of a "vibe" thing.

Ti and Fi do have a lot of similarities. I think one difference (of many) is that Ti seems to be able to "cut people off" or "be harsh" without feeling as bad or guilty. Fi has a harder time "enforcing" the things it feels strongly about.

 

[Santosha]

I get along really well with INTP's. Been close to 4 of them.. brother, two guys I briefly dated, and a friend. But there is a pattern I notice with the two i dated and my brother.. they sometimes say really cutting things and it hurts my feelings. I've observed them do it with others as well. I'm pretty certain that the intention is not to hurt... but sometimes things drop out of their mouth and I think.. WTF! It could be that cold NT rationale.. but I'm going to admit that I dated an INTJ for over a year and have been close friends with a few INTJ's.. also ENTJ's.. and never had this "verbally cuts problem" the way I've had it with the INTP. It could be a fluke. It could be just these 3 INTP's. Maybe a little health and maturity have something to do with it, I dunno. But I do think that if an INTP is going to shack up with an INFP.. they SHOULD REALLY REALLY WATCH this carefully.

 

[INTPness]

I get along really well with INTP's. Been close to 4 of them.. brother, two guys I briefly dated, and a friend. But there is a pattern I notice with the two i dated and my brother.. they sometimes say really cutting things and it hurts my feelings. I've observed them do it with others as well. I'm pretty certain that the intention is not to hurt... but sometimes things drop out of their mouth and I think.. WTF! It could be that cold NT rationale.. but I'm going to admit that I dated an INTJ for over a year and have been close friends with a few INTJ's.. also ENTJ's.. and never had this "verbally cuts problem" the way I've had it with the INTP. It could be a fluke. It could be just these 3 INTP's. Maybe a little health and maturity have something to do with it, I dunno. But I do think that if an INTP is going to shack up with an INFP.. they SHOULD REALLY REALLY WATCH this carefully.

I think with an ENTJ, for example, they exude Te - so you know what you're getting with them. With INTP's, we act like big softies and pushovers - we just go with the flow and don't make a fuss and so everyone thinks we're sweet and nice and fluffy (Ne/Fe). But, then if you tick us off, that's when you see Ti and it surprises people. Like you said, people are always like "WTF!!??? Where did that come from?" The intention definitely isn't to hurt. It's simply to call a spade a spade. To call things as they are or as we see them. I'd even compare it to being an umpire or a referee. We just want to call things fairly from all angles, as much as that is possible. A good example is my own mother who totally favors her kids in many situations where it's not called for. I sometimes have to say, "You're biased in my favor. Try to look at the situation as if I weren't your son. Detach yourself from being my mom for a minute, and you'll actually see that I wasn't actually very qualified for that job that I didn't get." So, if something is inaccurate or wrong, we feel the need to correct it or point it out.

But, I do apologize for the "biting remarks" on behalf of INTP's everywhere. Let me know when you find a function or a personality without flaws.

 

[Mal12345]

Huh. That's strange. I actually can relate a lot to this definition of Ti. However, the examples you gave could possibly cross over to Fi, standing up for what is right. I do also notice inconsistencies frequently, but often primarily from a humanistic stance. (And sometimes from other stances as well.) Reading this post actually helps me understand Ti a lot better and realize what it is, though before it was more of a "vibe" thing.

I can help you understand this even better. The Ti does not morally "feel" that racism is wrong - or if one does, then it is a Fi response to racism.

The Ti and Fi are both theoretical standpoints, according to Jung. But the Fi response is a "felt-theory." I would describe that as a moral (valuing) feeling which is difficult to put into words. That the Ti has verbally and conceptually spelled out his opinion to racism is, in a psychological sense, exactly the opposite of the Fi approach even if their opinions are the same. The Fi feels it, while the Ti thinks it. The Fi may try to put these moral feelings into conceptual terms, but this is more difficult and the output is different. The Fi feeling is also an automatic, involuntary response, whereas the Ti has to voluntarily come up with the logical reasons for not believing in racism.

 

[INTP]

I need to hear words of affirmation, and was recently refused that by an INTP because it wasn't a logical request.

 

[Xyk]

I totally agree with that description of Ti. Usually when my friends say something hypocritical, I'll ask them to "Tell me how that's different than <concept you despise>", and either they'll babble stubbornly for a little bit, they'll think about it and come out with a well-crafted response (this is my goal), or they'll concede. For instance, many people consider plastic surgery to be immoral or somehow wrong. A few weeks ago, I posed the question "Why is it accepted and okay to improve one's skill with mathematics/critical thinking/friendliness but not one's physical appearance?". It came out with a wonderful discussion which I was able to watch and occasionally join (it was over facebook). Eventually, the side that I agree with won.

 

[Octarine]

But, I do apologize for the "biting remarks" on behalf of INTP's everywhere. Let me know when you find a function or a personality without flaws.

It's called being passive-aggressive and it is by no means exclusive to INTPs. The boring preoccupations of INTPs on the other hand, tend to be INTP specific.