[MBTI General] Can anyone relate?

[Eckhart]

Well, as you might maybe already know I am a pretty solitary person. There surely are reasons why I have few contact with people from my past, and my few friends I have we don't communicate as regularly as in other typical friendships (although we see each other at least rarely).

That is all an issue for itself, but I notice it gets more and more difficult for me to get any closer to any people, especially new people. For example there are other students at my university with which I have to work in a team for some months, so you would think that is a good chance to get to know at least some persons a little bit. My issue here is that I have always that mindset that I don't want to impose my company on someone, especially when it is a group of people (for example in my team work now most team members were friends with each other before already, while I am totally new). So I wait for any hints that they might want to talk about anything besides study related topics or just getting to know each other in some way, but obviously I get no real ones. That is not only so in my current team works, it seems to be always so when I have to do with people I don't know yet.

Now maybe I should be just more "offensive" from myself, but I know people are often annoyed when someone who is not really belonging to a group forces himself on them without really showing it to the person. I mean, I have often heard people talk about exactly such cases behind their back often enough, and I don't want to be like that.

It sometimes feels to me like everyone on this world has already a ton of friends and doesn't want any new friends because they are already full of them, and just some people like me sit around alone :/ Then I notice how other people seem to get friends so quickly and naturally with each other that I feel I must be just invisible to others. I got somewhat used to it actually, but I would prefer if my situation was a bit better in that regard. I mean, I don't expect to become the super popular guy with 500 Facebook friends spamming me (somehow I feel some people might think that is few, haha), but I would like to just have at least some a bit more regular contact to other people.

I don't know exactly anymore why I write this here, because I don't believe someone here can help me about it really.

 

[Santosha]

Ya, I can relate. I was in a situation like this a few years ago. There were other reasons (that I'm not going to get into right now) for WHY I felt extremely uncomfortable integrating into the group.. but eventually I did. It still took along time. Infact, I kinda just made friends with certain members of the group at first, before I became really open with everyone. Point being, I can relate. You need to realize this:

Your obviously not happy with the situation, so you need to change it. Worrying about how the group might feel if you invite yourself in with them is understandeable, but not productive. Often times, people or groups can be kinda dense. They may have just not considered it, or even assume that you don't want to/are not comfortable moving your relation to a friendship. The former is not a reflection of you, being unlikeable or unworthy.. it can honestly come back to people being a bit dense or self-occupied.

My suggestion is that you pick one person out, the one you think you know the best, and just throw the idea of hanging out with them out there. For an INFP, this might be incredibley painful... but it is neccessary. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and be the initiator. I'll tell you a secret, those people that you see who make friends so easily... Get involved with groups so fast? They do the same thing. They suck it up and throw the initiation out there. They've been rejected many, many times. It hurts them. But they suck it up and try again. They do this because they come to understand that rejection hurts, but lonliness hurts more. It's important to adopt an attitude that if you want something in life, you've got to get it yourself. No one will ever make things happen for you, and expecting this is unfair. If you throw the idea out there and they don't initially jump on it, you throw it out again. Do it a few times. What is the worst that can happen? You find out they don't want to be good friends with you? So what! THere are 6 billion others on this planet. There are probably thousands of people that feel just like you, and thousands of others that would LOVE to be your friend. People need other people, plain and simple. They don't need you to be perfect, a movie-star, a comedian, the awesomest shit to walk this planet.. they need companionship and understanding.

So ya, uh... just sayen... put yourself out there

 

[KDude]

I can't really relate. Although it's not as simple as saying I'm completely different either. I'm solitary myself (and that's no understatement), but I don't quite experience myself as imposing on anyone. I'm not oozing "effusiveness" or something, but fairly proactive when it comes to introducing a thought or a mood somewhere. Opinionated enough, so to speak. I don't really have tons of friends either, but a lot of acquaintenances. I've been told that I've always been on the outskirts of groups, but tend to know someone in any given group.

On a sidenote, when I was on a Socionics board, I had first thought I was EII/INFj (Fi-Ne) in that system, but started noticing that many were on a higher reserved end like yourself (same almost went for ESI/ISFj). One EII in particular was very self-questioning and didn't want to come off as imposing.. like he projected his own sensitivity on others. I then decided I was actually IEI or SEI (INFp/ISFp).. they were more like myself in how they engaged with social atmospheres (and it didn't seem to matter what they were in MBTI. Some were IFPs, some were IFJs. And if I have point here, I think you'll find a mix of people of your own MBTI type identifying and not identifying. Yet, in Socionics we would be different types).

 

[BAJ]

Welcome to my home!

Yes, this is what I can relate, and I've posted few threads about trying to find friends now that I'm like 40.

There's quite a bit going on with me right now.

I did go to an event and meet people, and then went out to eat after.

I go to these events, but I always feel like I don't want to impose. I have this bad feeling, let's call it fear, that my inviting others into doing things is putting them in an awkward position of saying, "Yes or No." I hate feeling obligated to do things myself, so i don't want anyone to feel obligated. Add to this feeling the fact that I enjoy being by myself.

Thus, wading through all the niceties and small talk to get to the position of psychological intimacy seems like a long shot for me.

But right now, I'm less daunted.

There is the other side with all the existentialism, mysticism, and reflection. I'm making progress there. Thus, the position is not much changed (much), but I'm getting better at dealing with the issue you mention. That may not be helpful to you; it may not even be healthy in general. I'm not sure.

What I mean is that I may not be the one to talk to if you are looking to fix the problem of having better relationships/ friends. I'm probably more the person you could talk to when you are sick of letting this desire, or any other, become the government of you. I'm not saying I'm "enlightened", but rather my paths out have less to do with satisfying my desire, and more to do with mitigation and changing perspective.

 

[KDude]

One caveat to my above post..

Maybe I'm just not an INFP, period. While I have empathy for others, it doesn't seem to reach these levels where I see sensitive areas in other people to the same extent as the OP. My emphathic switch only comes on when I see pain.. I don't exactly project or imagine pain. It has to be fairly apparent.

Conversationally, sometimes I even get carried away and do what I want, regardless of other's preferences. For example, I have two ESTJ friends - both brothers. One time I was in a conversation with one, and while he liked "monologuing", I casually interject sometimes in conversation, make a side comment here and there, etc.. Not too long ago, he got annoyed, and told me that I can be "overbearing". I laughed about it, because I didn't see rudeness at all.. and then I got his brother, thinking he'd agree with me.. and lo and behold, he said the same thing. So I was taken aback a bit.. I had no idea I came across that way.

I only mention that because it's a stark contrast to what you're saying. ESTJs get the rep of being overbearing, and yet, here are two telling me I'm the overbearing one. lol. Go figure.

 

[BAJ]

Of course, I like Huxley's. It's true. It's not that I can't absorb rejection; at least I hope not.

I could go down to church who are clamoring for membership, and receive 15 warm hand shakes and some hugs. But finding a real friend there? Difficult!

I used this metaphor before on INFP groups...long ago. It's like my interior is a house. I can fairly easily meet people in the foyer. I can bring a few things there to "be who they want" and hang their favorite paintings and flowers. But to show someone my whole house (my whole being) is difficult.

I show freely last week, but generally with filtration. Last Saturday at dinner, I interacted freely and asked questions of the people. Ah, this person is very religious, so I must be respectful of their condition. This other person doesn't want to talk about something...STOP ASKING or don't ask! Oh, no. I'm ranting, and everyone has lost interest.

Mostly I ask questions. I try to ask "good questions."

Another part of my problem is, like I said, compatible groups. I drove one hour to go find people to talk to like I'm describing here.

 

[jenocyde]

Not too long ago, he got annoyed, and told me that I can be "overbearing". I laughed about it, because I didn't see rudeness at all.. and then I got his brother, thinking he'd agree with me.. and lo and behold, he said the same thing. So I was taken aback a bit.. I had no idea I came across that way.

Lolz, I find INFPs can be extremely overbearing. Every little thing seems like a BIG DEAL, and I always have to stop and explain or justify or "check in" or whatever it is that needs to happen to get the situation back to a fun place. It seems like the word "lighthearted" is just not in the vocab, for the most part.

But anyways... My husband's INFP mother "doesn't want to be a burden", so she never calls me. But she wants to maintain a relationship with me, so she shares her life in this very passive way... Like how she sends me care packages (like almost every week) but refuses to actually pick up the phone and call me and make this a two-way street. I genuinely WANT to be close with her but her ducking out it makes it difficult.

I know her intention is not to be overbearing, but the effect is opposite. It signals to me that she only wants me to learn about her - all these boxes are filled with little crafty projects she's done - but is taking no time to learn about me. And the second result is that I am now truly burdened with all these little pieces of crap around my house (and if she took the time to know me, she'd know that I abhor extraneous crap).

It would be really nice if she made an effort, a real effort, to be in our lives.

To the OP, I went through a phase like that in middle school. Now, I know my opinion doesn't count since it was such a finite time period, but it was very real to me when I was going through it. What got me out of it was exploring friendships on my own terms.

It sucks to be stuck in a situation and have your whole life be those people. You may or may not like anyone there, but those people were the only option you have. I never reached out, I never tried, it wasn't until much later when I realized that it wasn't me, it was them. They weren't my cup of tea and I didn't fit in with them. Once I started seeking out things that aligned with my interest level, the friendships were easier to make because the people spoke my language. Birds of a feather, right?

Maybe if you went on meetup.com or something similar and found a group of people with the same issue, you can meet people similar to you. It's like putting yourself out there - but with people who you know are feeling the same thing. It's risky, but not too risky. You know what I mean?

 

[KDude]

Lolz, I find INFPs can be extremely overbearing. Every little thing seems like a BIG DEAL, and I always have to stop and explain or justify or "check in" or whatever it is that needs to happen to get the situation back to a fun place. It seems like the word "lighthearted" is just not in the vocab, for the most part.

That's not what he meant though.. he didn't like that I'd break his monologue.. Like I'm not polite enough to sit by or something. It's my spontaneity, I guess. Sometimes I think it has nothing to do with "judgements" either. It's more like hitting a stream of thought, airing out my observations or experiences if something gets mentioned that piques my interest.

I'm not overbearing in the way you're talking about. If I think an ETP is getting carried away, I call them out in a more casual fashion, I guess? "Umm wtf?" It's not very "ninny-ish". Y'know what I mean? And as long as you're not stepping on my toes or doing something obviously dangerous, I'm cool.

I don't think I'm the type you have in mind. To get back to Socionics (bear with me here), the type you're talking about sounds like an EII/INFj. In Socionics, everyone has a certain relational dynamic. In the case of ENTp/INFj, the INFj is your supervisor. These are exactly the type of people who'd you feel like you have to "check in" with.

http://www.socionics.com/rel/sp.htm

These relations are also asymmetrical as are relations of Benefit. One partner, called the Supervisor, is always in a more favourable position in respect to the other partner who is known as Supervisee.

Relations of Supervision can give the impression that Supervisor is constantly watching every step of the Supervisee. The latter usually feels this control even if the Supervisor does not say or do anything. The explanation for this is that the Supervisee weak point is defenceless against the Supervisor's strong point. This makes the Supervisee nervous and expect the worse.

Although the Supervisor can seem self-satisfied, petty, faultfinding and narrative, the Supervisee pays attention to their actions and considers the Supervisor as consequential. The Supervisee normally wants to gain recognition and commendation from the Supervisor. However, it may seem like the Supervisor always undervalues the abilities of the Supervisee. This stimulates the Supervisee into proving their own worthiness with various actions, yet there is little chance that they will succeed.

Sound familiar?

 

[jenocyde]

That's not what he meant though.. he didn't like that I'd break his monologue..

Also, this. INxP all the way.

I'm not overbearing in the way you're talking about.

Didn't say that you were. I was just stating that a lot of INFPs don't realize they are being overbearing, because they truly think that they are always thinking of the other person - and sometimes it backfires and pushes people away. It was just an example.

See, had to explain...

 

[Eckhart]

So, now the forum is back up again I can finally answer here. I had already written a long post and then it was wasted because just then the stupid stuff with the forum happened.

Your obviously not happy with the situation, so you need to change it. Worrying about how the group might feel if you invite yourself in with them is understandeable, but not productive. Often times, people or groups can be kinda dense. They may have just not considered it, or even assume that you don't want to/are not comfortable moving your relation to a friendship. The former is not a reflection of you, being unlikeable or unworthy.. it can honestly come back to people being a bit dense or self-occupied.

Yeah, I have already considered that I might give off that impression to people that I seem uninterested. On the beginning of our work I even said to them that I am a somewhat shy person, but that they can talk to me when there is need. But I should probably be more active myself still, even if it is difficult for me. So far there was no private talk at all to any person there besides one who I had one talk with over internet and showed a little interest, but I didn't use the chance to be more active in the talk myself, so my signs were not strong enough I guess.

We (the group) have most courses together, but we sit always in other places. If they are in the room there before me, I sit myself somewhere different alone, and if I am there before they take seats somewhere else as well, so there is always some distance besides when we work together.

I can't really relate. Although it's not as simple as saying I'm completely different either. I'm solitary myself (and that's no understatement), but I don't quite experience myself as imposing on anyone. I'm not oozing "effusiveness" or something, but fairly proactive when it comes to introducing a thought or a mood somewhere. Opinionated enough, so to speak. I don't really have tons of friends either, but a lot of acquaintenances. I've been told that I've always been on the outskirts of groups, but tend to know someone in any given group.

I am probably more careful with my opinions. I mean, with my closer friends I often just said what I thought and often enough pulled out some of my silly nonsense, but when I am with people who I am not so close to yet or strangers, I never know what to talk about and am usually more careful with sharing too quirky thoughts, unless I get signs that the person might understand it or may think similarily.

In my school time I could relate to what you say about acquaintenances actually. In most friend circles I had a few single persons who I could get along with relative well, but never with the whole group, and so rarely hanged around with those groups and didn't do much with them outside of school, and they wouldn't do something with me individually. Well, maybe there was more possible for me, but I had different problems in that time.

I go to these events, but I always feel like I don't want to impose. I have this bad feeling, let's call it fear, that my inviting others into doing things is putting them in an awkward position of saying, "Yes or No." I hate feeling obligated to do things myself, so i don't want anyone to feel obligated. Add to this feeling the fact that I enjoy being by myself.

Thus, wading through all the niceties and small talk to get to the position of psychological intimacy seems like a long shot for me.

Yeah, that is how I feel.

What I mean is that I may not be the one to talk to if you are looking to fix the problem of having better relationships/ friends. I'm probably more the person you could talk to when you are sick of letting this desire, or any other, become the government of you. I'm not saying I'm "enlightened", but rather my paths out have less to do with satisfying my desire, and more to do with mitigation and changing perspective.

Well, my thread may not look like it , but I think I am making progress in that regard myself as well already. There were times where I felt much worse about my situation. It doesn't bother me as much as it did back then anymore, and I get somehow along. The feel is not gone completely though. I don't know if I need help in that regard right now, but your offer is appreciated

It sucks to be stuck in a situation and have your whole life be those people. You may or may not like anyone there, but those people were the only option you have. I never reached out, I never tried, it wasn't until much later when I realized that it wasn't me, it was them. They weren't my cup of tea and I didn't fit in with them. Once I started seeking out things that aligned with my interest level, the friendships were easier to make because the people spoke my language. Birds of a feather, right?

Maybe if you went on meetup.com or something similar and found a group of people with the same issue, you can meet people similar to you. It's like putting yourself out there - but with people who you know are feeling the same thing. It's risky, but not too risky. You know what I mean?

To the first part: Yeah, well, I don't know really. Right now I don't even get remotely to a contact where I could say I even know anything about that person, so I don't even know if they are my cup of tea or not. In school time that was obviously different, you saw the same people for several years, and funnily the two most important people there for me are people who first annoyed me very much and who I needed in one case several months and in other case even years to understand that we actually get along with each other very well.

To the second part, I didn't know about that site before and never considered such a site. Maybe I should take a look at it, I will see.

 

[Lauren]

I can relate, definitely. I like to be alone but lately I've felt that I'm definitely alone too much. I also have a few very close friends that I see only rarely because we live some distance apart now. I've invited a few people that I work with over to my place, and one couple accepted (we had a great time), but another woman whom I've asked several times, has never been able to make it. That's fine, I understand that sometimes people just don't want to be closer or don't have the time or emotional energy for another friend. But my default is to be alone--I don't feel lonely, though, at least not most of the time. I have a very busy job where I'm in contact with people all day. At day's end, I'm usually drained.

I usually meet people who I'd like to be friends with at work and people who are much younger than me, typically, as many people who are my age seem to have grown old when they are only in their 40s or early 50s. But younger people I think, may not feel I'm in the same place as they are and might not have a lot in common. Perhaps that's just a false perception on my part. I don't push myself on anyone--if I ask a few times and they're busy, I may wait a while before I ask again. I just don't need a lot of friends. I don't like superficial friendships that much. What am I saying?...I do feel if I'm alone too much I forget how to relate very well. I feel my relationship skills get rusty if I'm in my head too much. But then again, it's where I like to be. I need a lot of time to imagine or dream, it's just who I am. Being alone a lot, I find, may make me a better friend because I'm being good to myself and giving myself what I need.