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[MBTI General] ENFPs pwn INTPs

heart

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I deleted this post yesturday about five min after I made it and moved it to my blog....WHY was it undeleted!

I have no wish to pwn anyone and that was not anywhere in the premise of my post.
 
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SillySapienne

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Sorry heart, I am responsible for the title of this thread. (Oh, and it's a joke btw)

;)

heart, excellent (deleted) post!

See, I too agree that I am a feeler primarily, but things that feel right to me, are rational, and end up being logical as well.

Things inherently make sense to me, and sometimes, depending on my mood, I'll choose to logically explain my self, and sometimes I can't be bothered to take the time to linearly explain myself.

Whereas logicians will suffer through each and every step, I am comfortable at, and with, skipping a few.

My math teachers/profs *hated* the way I solved many of my math problems, skipping steps, yet still managing to arrive at the correct answer.
 
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heart

heart on fire
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heart, excellent post!

See, I too, agree that I am a feeler primarily, but things that feel right to me, are rational, and end up being logical as well.

Things inherently make sense to me, and sometimes, depending on my mood, I'll choose to logically explain my self, and sometimes I can't be bothered to take the time to linearly explain myself.

Whereas logicians will suffer through each and every step, I am comfortable at, and with, skipping a few.

My math teachers/profs *hated* the way I solved many of my math problems, skipping steps, yet still managing to arrive at the correct answer.


I moved the post to my blog. :blush:

I don't often explain myself because things "feel" logical but I have a hard time explaining why, precisely because I am not a logical thinker, I am a feeler. It doesn't mean that my views are always wrong. I am not going to make excuses for being what I am by trying to say that I am logical when am so obviously not.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
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heart, excellent post!

See, I too, agree that I am a feeler primarily, but things that feel right to me, are rational, and end up being logical as well.
K.

But you can't always count on that.
Things inherently make sense to me, and sometimes, depending on my mood, I'll choose to logically explain my self, and sometimes I can't be bothered to take the time to linearly explain myself.

Whereas logicians will suffer through each and every step, I am comfortable at, and with, skipping a few.
That's intuition, not feeling.

My math teachers *hated* the way I solved my many of my problems, skipping steps, yet still managing to arrive at the correct answer.[/QUOTE]
Well... that too is because of intuition -- not feeling.

I skip plenty, and I'm about as F as an uncomfortable monitor lizard.

Mostly thinking for me is for identifying the problem. Coming up with the solution is 100% on intuition. Sometimes I flesh it out logically, sometimes I don't. Here on MBTI is where I do a lot of that logicking.
 

Maverick

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Yes, the MBTI is not supposed to say something about ability, but simply about preference. The two are linked of course, because chances are that you will develop some expertise in the things that you like doing often. However, it is not necessarily the case. Some people may well be good at doing things they don't prefer or bad at doing things that they prefer. This is the reason why even CPP state that the MBTI should not be used for hiring or promotion purposes in the workplace.
 

reason

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Why do you never provide any sort of logical argument to anything you say? You state an opinion like it's some sort of fact, post a smiley, and provide no evidence to back anything up.
That is not how to argue rationally.

Suppose that CaptainChick argues P, and you ask captain chick to back up P. There are two ways which CaptainChick might try and back up P. First, she might try and derive some consequence from P, let us say Q, "if P then Q". However, in what sense does Q back up P, if Q follows from P? Take the following argument:

(If P then Q) If all cats are black then Shade is black.
(Q) Shade is black
Therefore,
(P) All cats are black​

This is invalid i.e. the truth of the conclusion does not follow from the premises. Q does not "back up" P if Q is a consequence of P. The only way which this argument can be valid is if P is equal to Q i.e. if P then P. But who considers P a good reason for P? It is impossible for CaptainChick to avoid your charge like this, so what is the alternative?

Perhaps CaptainChick could propose R, from which P is derived i.e. CaptainChick could "back up" or justify P, using R. This is logically valid, as demonstrated by the following argument:

(If R then P) If all cats are black then Shade is black.
(R) all cats are black
Therefore,
(P) Shade is black​

However, since P is the proposition which is being argued, and ~P (not-P) implies ~R (not-R) via modus tollens, then nobody who does not already agree with R is going to see this argument as "backing up" P. If the logical content i.e. set of logical consequences of P is just a subset of the logical content of R, then this argument is shamelessly circular, and equivalent to "R & P, therefore P".

There is no logical method of "backing up" arguments. (This doesn't mean that argument cannot be valid and true, only that they cannot be "backed up", justified, or whatever).
 

SillySapienne

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Nocap,

Intuition is an aspect to, and product of, my "Feeling" sensibilities.
 

SillySapienne

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Yes, the MBTI is not supposed to say something about ability, but simply about preference. The two are linked of course, because chances are that you will develop some expertise in the things that you like doing often. However, it is not necessarily the case. Some people may well be good at doing things they don't prefer or bad at doing things that they prefer.
True.
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
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I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

I'm just as much of a realist as any ESTP.

Attending the strings between concrete data doesn't make the data I observe any less worldly.

Realism and rationalism are not synonymous.
 

SillySapienne

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Honestly, all this stuff about type theory I'm not too interested in, at least in regards to the "theory" itself.

What draws me to this site, is the fact that, for some reason, at least in regards to ENFPs, the theory/assessment is shockingly spot on, but that very well may not be the case regarding the other 15 types, I'm not them, so how should I know.
 

Kiddo

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I believe that ENFPs believe they are rational. ;)
 

SillySapienne

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Perhaps what I *am* getting at is, that in my own personal experience, and by observing some fellow ENFPs on this site, I find that we happen to be incredibly rational.

Being *emotional* and being *irrational* are *not* the same thing!!!!
 

Grayscale

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if only someone could be good at everything...

who says being irrational is a bad thing?

*waves hand erratically*

Attending the strings between concrete data doesn't make the data I observe any less worldly.

Realism and rationalism are not synonymous.

unchecked mechanical ignorance and accuracy are not synonymous :D
 

disregard

mrs
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Well... being ENFP does not imply being emotional (which implies excess).
 

heart

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Well... being ENFP does not imply being emotional (which implies excess).

Does being emotional really imply excess?

Or is this a view held by those who are thinkers and may feel uncomfortable with emotion?

Why do we often use the word "over-emotional" to express excess?
 

SillySapienne

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Well... being ENFP does not imply being emotional (which implies excess).
No, it means of or relating to emotions, though for many, esp. for Ts, it does *imply* excess.

But I meant it in the literal sense.

I am both a highly emotional and rational being. ;)
 

disregard

mrs
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The word emotional does imply excess, according to the dictionary, and to my past experience with the word. I however, do not think that it should carry the negative connotation, as it should only pertain the experience of emotion.. but everyone experiences emotion (save for the few nuts), so when the word it used, it is often expressed in regard to someone that has trouble controlling his or her emotions.
 

Grayscale

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Does being emotional really imply excess?

Or is this a view held by those who are thinkers and may feel uncomfortable with emotion?

Why do we often use the word "over-emotional" to express excess?

emotions are a sect of logic, as is everything. however, in human choice, where the use of logic is ultimately driven by emotion, a certain illogic is introduced with this order.

does it really make sense to do what "makes sense" even if it makes you feel terrible?

perhaps it's a common opinion of "thinkers" that "emotionals" inflict greater emotional harm than good in the long run?
 

heart

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emotions are a sect of logic, as is anything. however, in human choice, where the use of logic is ultimately driven by emotion, a certain illogic is introduced with this order.

does it really make sense to do what "makes sense" even if it makes you feel terrible?

It depends on what sort of "feeling" you are meaning when you say "feel terrible."

Someone might feel incredible grief making a personal sacrifice for something they know is the right moral thing to do, but they would feel worse with shame and disgust in themselves if they did not do it. There might be no escape of bad feelings in a given situation. Being driven by feelings does not necessarily equate to hedonism.
 

targobelle

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*sigh*

I have not even made it through the first page and I have to disagree

Over all and generally speaking ENFP's lack the ability to be rational and logical. Instinctively we are not. That however is not saying that we cannot be. As long as we are able to with hold our emotions OR we are NOT emotionally attached to a situation (which is rare at best but can happen) then and only then are we able to grasp for the rational and logical response.
 
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