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[Fi] Why does everyone hate on Fi?

Cellmold

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Yes there is. I often use individuals that I have typed as examples of types. That's not to say that every INTJ or whatever believes or does such-and-such. But every INTJ I've known has a very rigid and strongly rationalized system of beliefs that can never be extinguished. So when I say X is an intransigent Mormon, the emphasis is on "intransigent," which is a constant with INTJs, and not on "Mormon," which is the variable in my equation.

So how do you differentiate an intransigent INTJ from say....an intransigent ESFP?

But maybe I just don't understand what you wrote.
 

Mal12345

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Heh excuse my Fi retard logic but didn't you make a sweeping generalisation when you called intransigent an INTJ constant?

As I said, I have never KNOWN an INTJ not to be intransigent. ("every INTJ I've known...") So that includes only the ones I've known, and since they are simply part of my experience, I can generalize and sweep them all I want.
 

Mal12345

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So how do you differentiate an intransigent INTJ from say....an intransigent ESFP?

But maybe I just don't understand what you wrote.

I don't look at it in terms of intransigent this versus that. I type according to letters individually, and then identify some JCF characteristics from that, since they are different systems. But intransigent, in general, means J. So that means other J types can be intransigent. An ESFP, I would expect, can appear intransigent, in my experience, and I attribute this to Fi.
 

Standuble

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As I said, I have never KNOWN an INTJ not to be intransigent. ("every INTJ I've known...") So that includes only the ones I've known, and since they are simply part of my experience, I can generalize and sweep them all I want.

You could have fooled me. I've gone over the wording and the sentence multiple times and my brain keeps continuously flagging it as a generalisation with the latter sentence not connected to the former. But I'll let you off as I know what you were trying to imply.

P.S. why do you do letter typing at all? It's primitive. Makes it hard to tell whether you're accusing the J's Pi or Je for being the key factor in their proposed stubborness.
 

Mal12345

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You could have fooled me. I've gone over the wording and the sentence multiple times and my brain keeps continuously flagging it as a generalisation with the latter sentence not connected to the former. But I'll let you off as I know what you were trying to imply.

P.S. why do you do letter typing at all? It's primitive. Makes it hard to tell whether you're accusing the J's Pi or Je for being the key factor in their proposed stubborness.

It's not more primitive, and in fact it doesn't even disagree with Jung who had theories of Feeling and Thinking without any reference to functions. He had theories of introversion and extroversion without referring to functions. He knew about or at least implied Perceiving and Judging in Psychological Types.

Modern JCF skips those details and goes straight to functions without understanding the underlying principles behind the letters.

Modern JCF also makes things more difficult to understand in typology. I've seen too much of Te being confused with Si, and things like that, so I abandoned that method of typing.

Edit - and I also got tired of being led astray by the false ideas about JCF spread on this forum.
 

Mal12345

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By the way, does the thread title imply that Fi's hate on Fi? Maybe because dolphin lovers don't care about tree huggers, and tree huggers don't care about CO2 wonks?
 

Standuble

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By the way, does the thread title imply that Fi's hate on Fi? Maybe because dolphin lovers don't care about tree huggers, and tree huggers don't care about CO2 wonks?

Who the heck confuses Si with Te??

I got the distinct impression it was aiming at non FP types and not any internal dispute for Fi users.
 

Mal12345

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Who the heck confuses Si with Te??

I got the distinct impression it was aiming at non FP types and not any internal dispute for Fi users.

I'm not using an impression, I'm taking the title literally. It doesn't ask why non-Fi's hate on Fi.
 

OrangeAppled

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"I DON'T CARE ABOUT LOGIC! YOU'RE STEPPING ON MY PERSONAL BELIEFS!"

<screams and runs out of the room with hands over ears>

Perhaps an FP has acted that way with you, but that itself is not Fi. That's an emotional reaction, & Fi is a rational thought process.
Fi is about forming value concepts using the self as a prototype for the human condition, not personal beliefs, which EVERYONE has, regardless of type.
 

Mal12345

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Perhaps an FP has acted that way with you, but that itself is not Fi. That's an emotional reaction, & Fi is a rational thought process.
Fi is about forming value concepts using the self as a prototype for the human condition, not personal beliefs, which EVERYONE has, regardless of type.

Nope, never happened to me in my life. Mostly what I get from Fi is snickers and smirks.
 

mintleaf

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In a way, the conscience is selfish -- it needs to assert its instincts to keep it from gnawing at itself; i.e., to maintain internal security and comfort. Conscience can become overwhelming and manifest externally as unhealthy egocentrism. To over-simplify, there are two basic reasons for why this is.

1. Transferring values to others
People with strong values tend to feel the need to proselytize, which can be pretty difficult and stressful.
Result: The urgency of conscience can overwhelm a person's ability to slow down and consider other perspectives and plans of action. They resist new modes of thought that either question or oppose their values. If a person's values don't include a concern for developing the rest of their cognitive functions* -- or if it does, but they're having difficulties doing so -- this results in poor rhetorical/social skills, intolerance, etc.

*obviously not a conscious thought for most people

2. Applying values to self (growing relationships, refining skills, maintaining emotional/spiritual vitality, gaining new experiences, etc.)
People with strong values tend to feel a need to live them out as fully as they can. This is a pretty heavy burden to carry around all the time. Not that Fi-users are necessarily altruistic, but they'll still be highly concerned with sticking by their own personal standards, or dreams, or whatever else. The weight of strong values may lead to laziness (or failure), which leads to shame, which leads to self-absorption*. The cycle goes on. Baggage is constantly accrued and, in worst cases, made obvious in interactions with others.

*I'm not sure how to explain the link between shame and self-absorption, but its existence is clear if you read anything about e4s, most of whom are FPs. I guess the way I would explain it is that Fi-users, especially 4s, deal with shame on a very inward level. They don't look for external validation as much as they try to renew enthusiasm for their own values and to jump-start personal growth via introspection. It's easy to forget that a good deal of personal growth needs to take place in the external world, especially when the ego is bruised. Even if the person is mostly oblivious to external judgment, having their shortcomings exposed makes them seem more real.

Apologies if this was bullshit, I just felt like getting my current understanding of Fi into words. (Also, I hope that it doesn't seem like I'm trying to say that Fi-users are privy to unique and honorable burdens or anything idiotic like that. It's just that these specific stressors are obviously most common, or immediate, to FPs.)

edit: I really like [MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] 's description of Fi as "forming value concepts using the self as a prototype for the human condition, not personal beliefs." Essentially what I meant by "values."
 
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