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  1. #31
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    5w4 sx/sp


    i think e4 seems like complexity because you run out of resources to accept yourself and then others really fast and it's difficult to keep up with the emotional processing and you feel like there's no place for you in the world and meanwhile with Ni you're trying to envision a new world that is an updated infrastructure for this one and it's not born yet so what do you do with it when the world is squeezing you out???? like you need faith but you don't have it and Fe is drowning when you can't accept yourself to stabilize your pole of that interaction/relation and Fe faith isn't something you can keep and store forever you gotta make it anew each time and it's only real in-interaction not something that can be privately had and you don't have the energy or faith to perform the version of yourself you want to perform because everything in you is leaking out and you can't accept it so how could anyone else so you're pre-emptively defensive. and then time is passing and you have to do stuff and stay on schedule and operate heavy machinery and clock in and clock out and the broken systems just seem like they have broken bodies piled up alongside.

    i think the rest is just classic j shit, expectations, relying on predictions too much rather than real actual experience, images of thought rather than real stories that have subjectively informing, understanding where you are situated in this wisdom that we forget about because we are looking at the ecological significance and wanting to control what is OUTSIDE of us rather than OURSELVES and what we can actually control (e1s seem better, but maybe i just know healthy e1s). js in general take a long time to learn control theory like p types often learn at a much younger age. it pays to be more adaptive, turns out. i guess with the control thing also comes the delay regarding responding to your own past Pi representations rather than the Pe that you take in in the moment and see possibilities emerging out of... it's way better for quick decisions to be a p, Pi is too complex and requires a calculator all the damn time.

  2. #32
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    6w5 sp/sx


    ^ thanks for this...quite spot on, I think I'm not e4 INFJ, but I do relate to 4 in some respects and quite a lot of what you said about e4 sounds familiar in this context...

    Can you tell me what you mean about "control theory"?

    I think I understand the thing about wanting to control what is outside ourselves. We know we can't though. I think of it mainly in terms of wishing that I didn't have to constantly fit my inner reality to the outer reality that everyone experiences - that can be so exhausting. It does make you wish you could just control everything.
    Enneagram 6w5 sp/sx


  3. #33
    Badoom~ Skyward's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008


    I can relate to the last paragraph. It has been a long slog to improve my understanding of how other people view the reality, and that is when I am not moping about not being as 'clear-eyed' as they are. Sometimes I wish hard that I was some sort of NP as they seem to see the world as it is and not embellishing it like I do with everything.

    In the end, I just wish I was smarter, or, at the very least, could remember things better
    'Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius and its better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring.' - Marilyn Monroe

    This is who I am, escapist, paradise-seeker.

    Anthropology Major out of Hamline University. St. Paul, Minnesota.

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