[NF] Differences between INFP and ENFP?

[Viridian]

I don't think it means that. If the theory is true, then there is a higher chance that an introvert is really a mistyped extravert. So, that would mean that if you think you are an extravert, it is statistically more likely that you really are, compared to a person thinking they are introverts.

I think that the question is, why do people like the idea they are introverts? Or maybe some extraverts are more aware of their shyness and anti-social aspects than others, and then get the idea they are introverts.

Maybe they think introverts are smarter and/or less conformistic? There's also the mystique of the "brooding loner" archetype, like those wayfarers you see in Westerns, or Batman. Everyone loves Batman.

 

[skylights]

I think that the question is, why do people like the idea they are introverts? Or maybe some extraverts are more aware of their shyness and anti-social aspects than others, and then get the idea they are introverts.

both of these for me.

for one, i thought i was less externally engaged than i am because i'm not the life of the party, nor am i always particularly assertive. i know i have a very rich inner world, so that swayed me, too. plus i think it's sort of easy to "miss" how much you use your Perceiving function when you're P dom. it's like a lens that you look through - if everything looks consistent, it's easy to forget it's there. i honestly always thought Ne was how all people thought. i just figured that was how brains worked. regardless, i still kind of laugh at being an "extravert". i'm pretty socially introverted IRL. and there are a lot of dumb stereotypes surrounding both classifications, introverts being antisocial, extraverts being loudmouths.

i also thought there was something lovely and magical about the INFP profile. the whole "healer" thing, and in being a fairly small subset of the population. interestingly... i've come to find out that there's more of a... hardness? to most INFPs than i realized. a stronger moral boundary. stronger Fi, i figure, in functionspeak. it's been especially interesting to encounter INFPs who are not very "warm" or "squishy" for the way i initially idealized the type. many INFPs - you, nolla - OrangeAppled, Tater, Southern Krossed, Udog, just to think of a few - you guys almost seem INTPy to me at times. drier, more independent and divorced from other people. not that that's either bad or good - it's just different than what i had initially imagined upon first conceptualizing INFP. in reality i think i was projecting myself into INFP as much as i was attempting to project INFP onto myself. it still irks me a little that i am not a "healer" by type, because that's always been a major focus in my life and self-concept, but the truth for me is that curiosity wins out over healing.

 

[Thalassa]

I don't think it means that. If the theory is true, then there is a higher chance that an introvert is really a mistyped extravert. So, that would mean that if you think you are an extravert, it is statistically more likely that you really are, compared to a person thinking they are introverts.

I think that the question is, why do people like the idea they are introverts? Or maybe some extraverts are more aware of their shyness and anti-social aspects than others, and then get the idea they are introverts.

Well, I once said to a college friend, just months prior to my more in-depth study of personality theory, that I was an introvert, and he laughed until he snorted and said, "I don't think you're an introvert. You're also not shy."

However, I did have a lot of social anxiety during periods of my younger life, and I think sometimes ENFPs think they're introverts because they like to spend time alone thinking and reading...however, it's interesting to me how many famous ENFPs are writers, so apparently that has nothing to do with being an introvert.

 

[Thalassa]

i also thought there was something lovely and magical about the INFP profile .

haha! me too, when I was still in high school and very first read a book about Keirsey or MBTI (don't remember which)

 

[nolla]

Maybe they think introverts are smarter and/or less conformistic? There's also the mystique of the "brooding loner" archetype, like those wayfarers you see in Westerns, or Batman. Everyone loves Batman.

Yeah, that's right... in the age of individualism, there is certainly some adoration of the lone wolf type. I also like the idea of the village idiot. It seems that this is a sort of a legend too. Someone living in a hut, scaring kids away, almost shamanic...

i also thought there was something lovely and magical about the INFP profile. the whole "healer" thing, and in being a fairly small subset of the population. interestingly... i've come to find out that there's more of a... hardness? to most INFPs than i realized. a stronger moral boundary. stronger Fi, i figure, in functionspeak. it's been especially interesting to encounter INFPs who are not very "warm" or "squishy" for the way i initially idealized the type. many INFPs - you, nolla - OrangeAppled, Tater, Southern Krossed, Udog, just to think of a few - you guys almost seem INTPy to me at times. drier, more independent and divorced from other people. not that that's either bad or good - it's just different than what i had initially imagined upon first conceptualizing INFP. in reality i think i was projecting myself into INFP as much as i was attempting to project INFP onto myself. it still irks me a little that i am not a "healer" by type, because that's always been a major focus in my life and self-concept, but the truth for me is that curiosity wins out over healing.

It's interesting that you point this out, since it hasn't been too obvious to me that I really do give sort of an INTP vibe to people (in real life too). I was quite amazed when I heard someone describe me in a way that made it sound like I try to keep my feelings hidden. This isn't how I see myself, since to me my feelings appear very much out of control. But, I guess I'll have to admit it to myself that most of the time I am seen colder than how it appears to myself. Even the word "healer" doesn't really describe the way I interact with people. I would be more of a by-stander most of the time. Even when I want to help someone, all I think I am capable of is listening to them. The "wounded healer" is an archetype I like very much, though, there's something very beautiful in it.

It's funny, though, that while I do think you are right about this (...hell, even the people you listed there are people I feel are most like me around here!) it still feels like "more independent and divorced from other people" would leave a wrong image about me. I guess there are many ways of being introverted, or independent, or divorced from other people, and the funny part is that I am totally hooked on people. I've lived in a commune so long now, I can't anymore even imagine how it would be to live alone, and I am almost sure I would become depressed. The way Eric B has extroversion split in two different kinds makes a lot sense to me. I am not initiating contact, but I like it a lot that there are people available.

However, I did have a lot of social anxiety during periods of my younger life, and I think sometimes ENFPs think they're introverts because they like to spend time alone thinking and reading...however, it's interesting to me how many famous ENFPs are writers, so apparently that has nothing to do with being an introvert.

It might be that there is sort of a bias due to the fact that people often want the typology to confirm that their career choice or whatever important choice is somehow fitting for their type. It's also very easy to get the idea that some skills are just too hard to learn if you are some type. I think that's BS. You can be whatever you want. Personally I've spent a lot of time using my visual skills. This is something I shouldn't do since I'm not an SP. Keirsey even says something like "Some NFs might get pretty good at painting, since they idealize the work and see it as a romantic career, but they will never be as good as the SPs". I think anything like this is pretty silly considering that the amount of skill has to do with the amount of practice, and if you enjoy something, it is more likely that you will practice it. So, anyone interested in anything will be good at it, eventually. Think about the hours people spend staring the tv. If someone uses this time to write, he is sure to be quite talented in it, no matter what his type is.

 

[Viridian]

Yeah, that's right... in the age of individualism, there is certainly some adoration of the lone wolf type. I also like the idea of the village idiot. It seems that this is a sort of a legend too. Someone living in a hut, scaring kids away, almost shamanic...

Could you elaborate on that "village idiot" concept? Doesn't sound like a model a lot of people would like to follow...

 

[nolla]

Could you elaborate on that "village idiot" concept? Doesn't sound like a model a lot of people would like to follow...

I'm not sure if this is more about my own culture... It hasn't been a long time since most of my country was living outside of big cities (a few generations ago), so it might be that this is more of an archetype here than in other countries. I guess there is an American version of this, a guy who lives below the radar, hidden somewhere in the wilderness, kind of self-sufficient type. But even when you think of it as the village idiot, living by his own set of standards, there is something there. And you known, you can't really live by your own standards without being seen as a crazy person by the mainstream. There's so much of comforming to the culture, that I don't think anyone would really live like this if they could start anew.

 

[Viridian]

I'm not sure if this is more about my own culture... It hasn't been a long time since most of my country was living outside of big cities (a few generations ago), so it might be that this is more of an archetype here than in other countries. I guess there is an American version of this, a guy who lives below the radar, hidden somewhere in the wilderness, kind of self-sufficient type. But even when you think of it as the village idiot, living by his own set of standards, there is something there. And you known, you can't really live by your own standards without being seen as a crazy person by the mainstream. There's so much of comforming to the culture, that I don't think anyone would really live like this if they could start anew.

Aaahn. 'Kay. I took the term a bit too literally, like, someone in a village or community who is notorious for being dumber than a bag of bricks. What you're referring to sounds more like a counter-culture thing, a "fly on the wall" who is perceived to be a parasite, the brooding vagrant... Like the Underground Man from Dostoevsky's Notes From Underground. A bohemian. Izzat right?

I'd say bohemianism in our Western, American (the continent) culture is sometimes associated with the emo subculture, or with hipsterism, and, by association, with being a "phony" or "poser" for taking pride in going "against the mainstream" rather than simply enjoying whatever you like without being pretentious. I'm conjecturing, mind you.

 

[nolla]

A bohemian. Izzat right?

I'd say bohemianism in our Western, American (the continent) culture is sometimes associated with the emo subculture, or with hipsterism, and, by association, with being a "phony" or "poser" for taking pride in going "against the mainstream" rather than simply enjoying whatever you like without being pretentious. I'm conjecturing, mind you.

Yeah, I get the same idea about a bohemian. A bohemian is a person that makes a big deal out of his rebellion. For him it's more important to be against something than to be yourself. It's like the inherent flaw with anarchists. If they are just about bringing about anarchy, then what? If they manage to collapse the system, there will just be new people grasping for power. In a way I think anarchism has the right idea, but it seems that it is only an ideology as long as it doesn't happen. Inside true anarchy you wouldn't have anarchists at all.

 

[Elfboy]

posted by skylights

i also thought there was something lovely and magical about the INFP profile. the whole "healer" thing, and in being a fairly small subset of the population. interestingly... i've come to find out that there's more of a... hardness? to most INFPs than i realized. a stronger moral boundary. stronger Fi, i figure, in functionspeak. it's been especially interesting to encounter INFPs who are not very "warm" or "squishy" for the way i initially idealized the type. many INFPs - you, nolla - OrangeAppled, Tater, Southern Krossed, Udog, just to think of a few - you guys almost seem INTPy to me at times. drier, more independent and divorced from other people. not that that's either bad or good - it's just different than what i had initially imagined upon first conceptualizing INFP. in reality i think i was projecting myself into INFP as much as i was attempting to project INFP onto myself. it still irks me a little that i am not a "healer" by type, because that's always been a major focus in my life and self-concept, but the truth for me is that curiosity wins out over healing.

my thoughts exactly, especially the "INFPs are less than 4% of the population. yeah, I must be that!" assumption that's easy for ENFPs to make early in the self process

posted by Marmie Dearest

Well, I once said to a college friend, just months prior to my more in-depth study of personality theory, that I was an introvert, and he laughed until he snorted and said, "I don't think you're an introvert. You're also not shy."

However, I did have a lot of social anxiety during periods of my younger life, and I think sometimes ENFPs think they're introverts because they like to spend time alone thinking and reading...however, it's interesting to me how many famous ENFPs are writers, so apparently that has nothing to do with being an introvert.

interesting, I thought I was an introvert specifically because I didn't have social anxiety. the main reasons I think I am an ENFP (although I wouldn't exactly call myself an extrovert) are
- outspoken about just about everything
- intense communicator
- trouble talking quietly
- balanced F/T, unbalanced N/S
- most introverts I know don't like to talk about themselves a lot
- quick to respond in a conversation. although I suppose this could be more an Ne thing that extroversion as a whole (people often think I'm not listening, but it's really just that I generate responses at lightning speed)

still, my blatantly introverted lifestyle calls this into question
- being in public usually feels like running a race.
- I spend most of my time inside studying, doing homework, ranting on type C, drinking tea and listening to music
- I can stay in my room for days and do nothing but listen to music and think
- easily startled, when I'm in my room doing something and my roommate walks in, it usually makes me jump
- prefer to keep the door closed and locked, I like to know in advance if someone wants to talk to me
- ENFPs usually like people...I am disgusted by most people
- group dynamics confuse the hell out of me
- dislike traditional conversation structure of 50/50 speaking/listening (when I'm with my INTJ besty, sometimes I'll talk 80% of the time and other times 20%. other times both of us will talk at the same time while simultaneously listening to each other and then not not say anything for 5-15 minutes before going back to one person talking at a time)

 

[Elfboy]

Yeah, I get the same idea about a bohemian. A bohemian is a person that makes a big deal out of his rebellion. For him it's more important to be against something than to be yourself. It's like the inherent flaw with anarchists. If they are just about bringing about anarchy, then what? If they manage to collapse the system, there will just be new people grasping for power. In a way I think anarchism has the right idea, but it seems that it is only an ideology as long as it doesn't happen. Inside true anarchy you wouldn't have anarchists at all.

agreed. and then they'll turn around and say you're not "being yourself" because you bother wasting your time rebelling against things for it's own sake. true rebels on the other hand are there for a reason.

 

[Santosha]

If given the choice of being extrovert or introvert, I'd take extrovert, hands down. It has little to do with whats "cooler" and more to do with me seeing introverts struggle IRL. Ofcourse anyone and everyone struggles... but I do not like feeling disconnected from the world around me, I do not like the times that I can't get out of my head and actually make things happen, I do not like feeling alone or misunderstood. This is not to say that extroverts cant have these problems, but they are less likely to. Yet I love that introverts rely less on outward approval, have less need for people, and tend to self reflect or know themselves better. Wait, is that even true? DO introverts know themselves better, generally speaking? (And please don't make me break down what I believe *knowing oneself* means, i see the potential for that already)

 

[Viridian]

Yeah, I get the same idea about a bohemian. A bohemian is a person that makes a big deal out of his rebellion. For him it's more important to be against something than to be yourself. It's like the inherent flaw with anarchists. If they are just about bringing about anarchy, then what? If they manage to collapse the system, there will just be new people grasping for power. In a way I think anarchism has the right idea, but it seems that it is only an ideology as long as it doesn't happen. Inside true anarchy you wouldn't have anarchists at all.

I wasn't talking about that kind of bohemian... I meant the ones that are meandering throught he fringes of society, like yourself... The Underground Man thought little about what others thought, even if he did see them as bulls charing against a wall. What you're describing sounds more like the previously mentioned hipsterism ("I liked it before it was popular, unlike you"). Sorry if I wasn't clear. ^_^'

 

[skylights]

i like being an extravert too (not like better, i'm sure if i was an introvert than i would like being an introvert too), but there are times... after the gathering has dissipated and i'm driving home alone in the darkness, and all the go-go-go and stimulation is gone, and suddenly my energy level plummets and i feel lonely and tired and just want to cry... i wish i could be more like an introvert.

 

[nolla]

I wasn't talking about that kind of bohemian... I meant the ones that are meandering throught he fringes of society, like yourself... The Underground Man thought little about what others thought, even if he did see them as bulls charing against a wall. What you're describing sounds more like the previously mentioned hipsterism ("I liked it before it was popular, unlike you"). Sorry if I wasn't clear. ^_^'

Ah, yeah, ok. I kinda linked the idea of bohemian to this character you often see in tv. This slight attitude change is very important theme for me. It can be hard to keep a track on what I am doing for real and what I am doing because I like the idea of doing it more than the doing itself.

Yet I love that introverts rely less on outward approval, have less need for people, and tend to self reflect or know themselves better. Wait, is that even true? DO introverts know themselves better, generally speaking? (And please don't make me break down what I believe *knowing oneself* means, i see the potential for that already)

I think it is just as easy (or hard) knowing yourself by looking inside as it is by looking outside. If you look inside, you will have to come to the realization that you are not an island and many things don't make any sense whatsoever without relating them to your surroundings. Or if you look outside, you will see that it is your core that is manifesting itself into the external life situation you have. In either case the core will remain a mystery eventually, and so will the world.

 

[OrangeAppled]

there are a lot of dumb stereotypes surrounding both classifications, introverts being antisocial, extraverts being loudmouths.

I think the stereotypes lead many ENxx types to think of themselves as introvert. Part of it is the nature of N perceiving (both Ne & Ni) to devalue the literal object in favor of its abstract conceptual implications. This results in feeling a bit detached from the external, even though ENxx types still seek out a kind of external stimulation much more so than an INxx type.

i also thought there was something lovely and magical about the INFP profile. the whole "healer" thing, and in being a fairly small subset of the population. interestingly... i've come to find out that there's more of a... hardness? to most INFPs than i realized. a stronger moral boundary. stronger Fi, i figure, in functionspeak. it's been especially interesting to encounter INFPs who are not very "warm" or "squishy" for the way i initially idealized the type. many INFPs - you, nolla - OrangeAppled, Tater, Southern Krossed, Udog, just to think of a few - you guys almost seem INTPy to me at times. drier, more independent and divorced from other people. not that that's either bad or good - it's just different than what i had initially imagined upon first conceptualizing INFP. in reality i think i was projecting myself into INFP as much as i was attempting to project INFP onto myself. it still irks me a little that i am not a "healer" by type, because that's always been a major focus in my life and self-concept, but the truth for me is that curiosity wins out over healing.

The soft, sweet, magical healer vibe many profiles give off is precisely why for some 10 years I always typed INTP (from casually taking tests) & couldn't see myself as a Feeler. Not until I started getting into the theory did I clearly see I was an INFP. Even still, I identify more as being an I or N than an F, simply because of the associations people make with Feeling that I don't see as applying to me.

I think "healing" really needs to be clarified. I would never have called myself that prior to learning about MBTI, and it annoyed me at first that INFPs got that label, until I realized what it really means. It is NOT the comforting nurturing that ISFJs give, or the enthusiastic championing of underdog from the ENFP (which is likely why the "healing" title appealed to you, ENFPs do aid people emotionally in significant ways), or the pro-active counseling of the INFJ....it's really an uncomfortable & vulnerable process, and this makes the INFP healer's calm, detached, externally stoic, yet gentle exterior the right one for people to vent to & to accept some adjustments to their own thinking.

I've heard people say they like the calm, unemotional T presence when they are upset - but that's the INFP healer style also. I won't cry with or for you, but I'll be a voice of reason, to guide you to some idea that helps you to get beyond the feeling, to finally "heal" it so you can move on, but it's in a non-critical way that still feels safe emotionally. I think if people witnessed the INFP empathetic style more they'd realize it's more like an intensive therapy session to refine feelings than a comforting & nurturing hug fest.

 

[Southern Kross]

I was just wondering, what do those of you who are confused about your introversion/extroversion levels, score on this test? Its by Marti Olsen Laney from this book

A Test for Introverted Personality Traits

Answer true or false to the following questions about introversion and extroversion:

1. I like to have long, uninterrupted periods to work on projects, rather than small chunks.
2. I sometimes rehearse things before speaking, occasionally writing notes to myself.
3. I like to listen more than talk.
4. People sometimes think I’m quiet, mysterious, aloof or calm.
5. I usually need to think before I respond or speak.
6. I like to share special occasions with just one or two people, rather than have a big celebration.
7. I tend to notice details many people don’t see.
8. If two people have just had an argument, I feel the tension in the air.
9. If I say I’ll do something, I almost always do it.
10. I feel anxious if I have a deadline or pressure.
11. I can zone out if too much is going on.
12. I like to watch an activity for awhile before joining in.
13. I form lasting relationships.
14. I don’t like to interrupt others; I don’t like to be interrupted.
15. When I take in lots of information, it takes me awhile to sort it out.
16. I don’t like overstimulating environments.
17. I sometimes have strong reactions to smells, tastes, foods, weather, and noise.
18. I am creative and/or imaginative.
19. I feel drained after social situations, even when I enjoy myself.
20. I prefer to be introduced rather than having to introduce others.
21. I often feel uncomfortable in new surroundings.
22. I can become grouchy if I’m around people or activities for too long.
23. I often dread returning phone calls.
24. I like people to come to my home, but I don’t like them to stay a long time.
25. I find my mind sometimes goes blank when I meet people or when I am asked to speak unexpectedly.
26. I talk slowly or have gaps in my words, especially if I’m tired or if I’m trying to think and speak at once.
27. I don’t think of acquaintances as close friends.
28. I feel as if I can’t show other people my ideas until they’re fully formulated.
29. Other people may surprise me by thinking I’m smarter than I am.


Simply add up your “true” responses. The more “trues” you have, the more introverted personality traits or introversion signs you possess…


Scoring:

20-29 “true” responses means you’re a true introvert. “Only deep relationships measure up as friendships and you use them to relax. You need to mentally rest throughout the day, even after enjoyable activities. Because you will draw a blank under pressure, prepare for meetings, talks, and even parties beforehand. Accept your nature and learn to politely fend off energy-draining people.”

10-19 “true” responses means you’re both introverted and extroverted. “You sometimes feel torn between the desire to dance in the streets and walk alone on the beach. Notice this, so you can keep your energy consistent. You judge yourself through your thoughts and feelings, and through others, leaving you with a broad view that is sometimes difficult to straddle.”

1-9 “true” responses means you’re an extrovert. “You relish variety, have lots of ‘close, personal’ friends and will chat with complete strangers. Your stimulation is all external, so you talk, think, and act quickly. As you reach midlife, however, you may need to take a break from the high life to reflect, even though it goes against your nature.”

 

[Santosha]

^^^
I came up with 11. I am both introverted and extroverted. SURPRISE! =D

There are a few questions I don't quite understand how they related to introversion though.

"Lasting relationships"
"Creative & imaginitive"
"Senses tension in the air"

 

[Elfboy]

I came up 15

There are a few questions I don't quite understand how they related to introversion though.
"Lasting relationships"
"Creative & imaginitive"
"Senses tension in the air"

agreed, also
"when I say I will do something, I almost always do it"
has nothing to do with introversion

 

[SRT]

I think its kinda funny that you extraverts look back at your younger selves thinking that you were introverted, while I (an introvert) look back and see my younger self being much more extraverted. The only reason I don't have any confusion about being an extravert when I was younger is that I can remember quite a few adults commenting on how quiet/lonerish I was. I don't really remember being that quiet though, so it always struck me as a little odd whenever someone would say that.