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  1. #31
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    But what does this mean, this development of Fi? I hear people say it all of the time, but I'd love to hear you guys thoughts of what it is to neglect/not neglect Fi.
    I can only respond to this based on my personal experience (<- How very Fi of me, btw), but perhaps other Fi users will identify with it:

    I don't think anyone develops (neglects/does not neglect) their Fi. I think the best we can hope for is to develop how we use Fi, or any cognitive function. We can learn to fine tune its application including when not to let it drive our behavior and when it's appropriate to bring it into play.

    Before I had even heard about cognitive functions like Fi, I was developing skills to fine tune my control over my Fi. By this, I mean that I had already identified a couple of flaws in myself that only later I would find out were Fi related. Then, I tried to work on these problems. I think this pattern of identifying maladaptive behaviors and then working on them is a sign of general maturity and wisdom. You don't need to understand hierarchies of cognitive functions to do this. But after I learned about Fi, whoa Nellie. I was able to identify my misuse of Fi with even more accuracy, and thus develop my finely tuned control of Fi even more.

    In retrospect, I see that my Fi problems seemed to fall into two categories:

    1. Fi on overdrive - This is when I let my Fi impulses drive my behavior. I was over-indulging my Fi. For example, I had a very strong rebellious streak that vigorously fought against anything that I perceived was preventing me from being my true self. I didn't know that this was my Fi in overdrive, but in a way, I didn't need to know about Fi to know that my rebellious steak was causing me problems. It seemed out of balance and I knew I sometimes overreacted to perceived threats.
    2. Not using Fi enough - This is when I don't use my Fi to check my Ne. It seems like our secondary functions must ALWAYS be used to check the excesses of our dominant functions regardless of personality type. I also got myself into trouble by letting my Ne run amuck. Being Ne dominant, I love to take in new information. But sometimes, I take in new information at the expense of sorting and make judgments on the information I was taking in. This lead to all sorts of problems for me.

    Neglecting vs. Not Neglecting Fi
    The point of my post is that to neglect Fi is to not attend to how you are using it. To not neglect Fi is to be mindful of how it operates in your life and then to tweak how you let Fi drive your choices. When it comes to Fi mindfulness for ENFPs, I think the two problems I identified above are the areas that we need to be mindful of.

    BTW, I did not mention it in this post, but another aspect of being mindful (or not neglecting) one's Fi, is understanding Fi's strengths and leveraging those strengths whenever possible.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  2. #32
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    For me, Fi is about deep emotions, empathy and strong values in life. It makes/let's me focus on people instead of other things.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    1. Not using Fi enough - This is when I don't use my Fi to check my Ne. It seems like our secondary functions must ALWAYS be used to check the excesses of our dominant functions regardless of personality type. I also got myself into trouble by letting my Ne run amuck. Being Ne dominant, I love to take in new information. But sometimes, I take in new information at the expense of sorting and make judgments on the information I was taking in. This lead to all sorts of problems for me.
    Would you mind elaborating on what kind of problems this has caused you, Miss Wench?

  4. #34
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    But what does this mean, this development of Fi? I hear people say it all of the time, but I'd love to hear you guys thoughts of what it is to neglect/not neglect Fi.
    hehehe, if I may quote myself, lately I have been dealing with Te and how to use it productively. The problem is that the te wells up very strongly but used in a vacuum, can be really brutal and blunt-like a little ESTJ kid. It also is Te on speed due to Ne rapidly shifting focus and the fact that using Te takes energy, so I will find the quickest solution rather than the best solution at times, so I can stop using Te, because I get tired.

    I have found most recently that if I am looking at multiple Te paths forward, if I can stop and really assess the Fi value of each path, I can become more energized to pick the best of the paths or perhaps pursue no path at all and instead just not act. So for instance in a more negative example, I may get in an interaction with a sales team member in which I want to send a flaming response back to them as they have made multiple requests on the same topic. Each request requires more and more Te and finally, tired, my responses will get more and more blunt. However if i can pause and assess the internal feeling-it feels tired, exhausted and strained. So if I can take a moment, force myself to relax, look at why the info is important or how unimportant the little frustration is, or focus upon the Fi value of providing the information, it can renergize the Te, so that I can be productive in my response.

    It is the checking back in on the Fi feelings-like vala says-that helps balance how and where the Te can be most productive.

    Focusing more of Fi also means looking, not at the fun of many, many interactions, but the value each relationship holds in it's depth for me. Taking the time to look at a person as an individual, not just as a person around me. It can be hard to do that in a workplace, given time and stress.

    But the internal gut check is the key I think, although vala described it very, very well, much better than I can.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Fi is the very best and the very worse in me.

    "Nothing contributes so much to tranquilize the mind as a steady purpose - a point on which the soul may fix its intellectual eye." Mary Shelley

    It's not just an ethical drive to do good, it's also intellectual, imaginative and logical. I triple-check my thoughts to the point of obsession. I push myself to figure out solutions and I push myself to change, to be a better and more efficient person all the time.

    Fi makes me hyper-sensitive and hyper-responsive to criticism and negative circumstances and horrible people. I don't do well with practical, cold matters or practical, cold people. Sometimes the answer is obvious but I can't see it because my feelings are in the way, blurring the obvious. When I do figure it out, it's a complete duh.

    Fi compels me to be empathic, loyal, generous and kind. It makes me ambitious and hopeful, it gives me purpose and strength. It gives me clarity of what's important personally and universally. It gives me insight into what's complete bullshit and allows me to avoid people who are untrustworthy. I have my own guidelines of moral conduct and responsibility. I resist the group mentality. I put myself directly in other people's shoes; it gives me many dimensions of truth.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I can only respond to this based on my personal experience (<- How very Fi of me, btw), but perhaps other Fi users will identify with it:

    I don't think anyone develops (neglects/does not neglect) their Fi. I think the best we can hope for is to develop how we use Fi, or any cognitive function. We can learn to fine tune its application including when not to let it drive our behavior and when it's appropriate to bring it into play.

    Before I had even heard about cognitive functions like Fi, I was developing skills to fine tune my control over my Fi. By this, I mean that I had already identified a couple of flaws in myself that only later I would find out were Fi related. Then, I tried to work on these problems. I think this pattern of identifying maladaptive behaviors and then working on them is a sign of general maturity and wisdom. You don't need to understand hierarchies of cognitive functions to do this. But after I learned about Fi, whoa Nellie. I was able to identify my misuse of Fi with even more accuracy, and thus develop my finely tuned control of Fi even more.

    In retrospect, I see that my Fi problems seemed to fall into two categories:

    1. Fi on overdrive - This is when I let my Fi impulses drive my behavior. I was over-indulging my Fi. For example, I had a very strong rebellious streak that vigorously fought against anything that I perceived was preventing me from being my true self. I didn't know that this was my Fi in overdrive, but in a way, I didn't need to know about Fi to know that my rebellious steak was causing me problems. It seemed out of balance and I knew I sometimes overreacted to perceived threats.
    2. Not using Fi enough - This is when I don't use my Fi to check my Ne. It seems like our secondary functions must ALWAYS be used to check the excesses of our dominant functions regardless of personality type. I also got myself into trouble by letting my Ne run amuck. Being Ne dominant, I love to take in new information. But sometimes, I take in new information at the expense of sorting and make judgments on the information I was taking in. This lead to all sorts of problems for me.

    Neglecting vs. Not Neglecting Fi
    The point of my post is that to neglect Fi is to not attend to how you are using it. To not neglect Fi is to be mindful of how it operates in your life and then to tweak how you let Fi drive your choices. When it comes to Fi mindfulness for ENFPs, I think the two problems I identified above are the areas that we need to be mindful of.

    BTW, I did not mention it in this post, but another aspect of being mindful (or not neglecting) one's Fi, is understanding Fi's strengths and leveraging those strengths whenever possible.
    I think this is a very good post. I think using too much Ne without Fi judgment can lead to a feeling of being unfocused, ungrounded, and it's just not a good feeling for me if its done in excess. I agree about the mindfulness too.

    Fi in overdrive isn't good either.

  7. #37
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    . So for instance in a more negative example, I may get in an interaction with a sales team member in which I want to send a flaming response back to them as they have made multiple requests on the same topic. Each request requires more and more Te and finally, tired, my responses will get more and more blunt. However if i can pause and assess the internal feeling-it feels tired, exhausted and strained. So if I can take a moment, force myself to relax, look at why the info is important or how unimportant the little frustration is, or focus upon the Fi value of providing the information, it can renergize the Te, so that I can be productive in my response.
    Work is challenging. I can get pretty beat up.

    First, the main sales person is ESFJ, who wants very factual, exact numbers "yes" or "no", which is never the case. (I don't really answer with yes and no.) Also, it never works that way. For example, she wants to have number like "five boxes", but I don't even what to make a list at all because she's just as likely to sell 10. Thus, if I think I have five, then should I put two?

    I have an idea of each customer. Some have visited, and I've met them. Some have complained. Some have given praise. If they make any communication, good or bad, then I remember that. For example, two years ago a certain customer made a comment that they like the color yellow. They said to me in the courtyard of a certain hotel, next to the second tree on the left. Etc.

    In addition to customers, I remember all the communications with the owners and the office. The interests of the sales person, the customer, myself, and the owner must all be considered and balanced. The salesperson may have a special relationship to a certain customer. Also, the particular order might be for the Owner's close personal friend or for his mother. One customer may get a certain deal, and not another. I want to understand who gets what, and why. Some get a better deal because of their position or because of a favor they can do.

    Most customers want more expensive goods for cheaper prices. Thus, if you don't have some ground rules, then they will try to manipulate their best deal. They want discounts overall, and discounts based on arguments about levels of quality. There are multiple layers of pricing based on how much they buy in a year. In addition, there are about five levels of quality based on logical criteria as well as overall aesthetic impression (what the beauty of a fish "feels" like), and these are different for all 25 varieties we sell. Also, this can vary based on how rare something is. Fish are judged at shows, and there are criteria, but different judges can reach different opinions. In addition, our market may be different than what the official judges think.

    So, with each customer order, I'm considering all this: the owner's mandates as well as everything I know about that customer, as well as the judging of fish logically and aesthetically.

    Add this in: The owner feels that if nobody complains, then they are getting too good a deal. But, Catch 22, if anyone complains, we are in trouble.

    There's lots of arguments between everyone. Our opinions of quality differ, but I can't do everything myself. I have to learn to let go of some battles. In others, there's no way to ever make it into the ideal, so I have the choice of how that bothers me. I still want the ideal, but after years of trying I've distanced my emotions from being attached to that perfection. "The perfect is the enemy of the good", as the expression goes.

    So, some things I believe I just can't explain.

    I can put myself in the owner's shoes, the primary customer, the customer's customer, the sales person, I understand them, and their motivations. But often, I don't feel they understand my situation, and why what they are asking is crazy. A ten minute conversation between the office and the customer can result in us working until mid-night. I'm working to make the world better for all, and move the product. (We are all on the same team.)

    I have a great deal of issues with my perfectionism. It's not like we can paint fish a different color. It takes a year to make a small fish, and multiple years to make a big one, but motivating them to sell what we have is difficult. I always say, "It's easy to sell a unicorn. Finding it is the problem." It doesn't matter if I have 400 boxes available; they sell one I don't have.

    Last week, they were explaining that the list of what we have is important and that I really DO need to make it, and in the very same phone conversation, they asked for something we don't have. And it's like they are saying, "Ah, I know you can find it because you are amazing!" Answering "No" did not have any effect, like my "No" is not really "No." Thus, I trying to get the best result for positive feedback, thus nearly work myself to death.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Within View Post
    Fi to me is the chain that keeps me angel, without it I would be stuck in angelus mode.
    - that is freakin' awesome! nice buffy reference. way cool

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