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[MBTI General] Your environment, cities, landscapes, how they affect you

SilkRoad

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Not an NF-specific question, wasn't sure where to post though.

I think sometimes about the places we live in and how they affect us and perhaps specifically how they affect us based on personality type, too. I'm an INFJ but I feel certain that if I didn't live in London I would be different in many ways. I love London but it warps you as well. I feel it has brought out the best and worst in me. It's brought out the inner ESTP at least from time to time. The shadow that wants to go out and party and be very very blunt... London makes me angry, I live on a shorter fuse than I used to. It frustrates me. But...with all that I have gone deeper into myself and deeper with others than I think I would have in many other places. I've known so many different people, had so many experiences that have meant so much to me. I feel like all at the same time it has made me tougher, harder, more understanding, more empathetic.

Any thoughts?
 

Arclight

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Living in England transformed me. There I learned to be very stressed and angry. I have never withdrawn myself as much as I had to when I was there.
Too crowded, too fast too dirty and I found the people somewhat morally hedonistic. Don't get me wrong, I like food , sex and intoxication as much as the next person. But not at the expense of my humanity.
I am still recovering from it. :)

Ottawa also affects me. It's almost the opposite. I become too laid back and indifferent. Something happens to myself esteem in this town that is not good.


I guess I am saying I relate and I feel your environment plays a role in your state of emotional and mental health.
 

SilkRoad

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I hear you about England... I think it makes a lot of people hard and hedonistic.

There is something about London though. Well, so many things. I read Peter Ackroyd's book about London a while ago and adored it. He is into psychogeography, which fascinates me. How people are influenced by the places they live and how they influence the places and how certain threads carry on in places through the centuries. I read a bit of the book and thought "this guy has exactly the vision of London that I have." It's dark, it's hidden, it's seductive and a bit frightening, it is an entity of its own with its own personality and the currents that run through it push people to do things that they might not otherwise do, both good and bad. It was exactly the book I would have chosen to write about London, if I were a genius historian, of course. ;)

But sometimes I feel that London is like an abusive relationship. It mashes me into the ground repeatedly in various ways and just when I think I can't take any more, I have some extraordinary human or cultural experience that I wouldn't have anywhere else and it's like the city brought me flowers and chocolates. Over and over. ;)
 

Arclight

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I remember that feeling of romance..lol
I guess the UK just broke my heart one time too many.
And all the chocolates in the world weren't going to fix it.
There was a time I thought I would never want to leave.

I am actually considering Toronto if you can believe that. As a native Montrealer it almost feels like betrayal :laugh:
 

Thalassa

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Yes, I am very much affected by my environment. I cannot bear to live in certain places (for example, never moving back to Vegas, though I can thank it for strengthening my Te and toughening me up in a way my mother - and other people in WV - found shocking.)

People in WV tend to be nice. Of course there are some mean people or criminals there, but for the most part, people in WV are some of the nicest people I've met in the world. They still relate to other human beings on a small scale, perhaps comparable to a tribal or at least village level, which is why they're so kind, considerate, etc.

Large cities tend to bring out the worst in people, because people begin to be viewed as competition or objects rather than tribal members, simply because there are so many freaking people.

However, you'll notice that people in L.A. aren't as angry as people in Vegas, and aren't as reserved as people from New York.

Your location definitely shapes who you are...however, I am of the opinion that some people are more sensitive to their environment than others. I am one of those sensitive people.
 

Curator

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im definitely affected a lot by the environment im living in, I dont do well in most larger cities... I dont mind the people, I just dislike all the concrete... btw, all this talk of england and the affect it has on people, is making me rather nervous for my friend who is planning on moving there,lol
 

mochajava

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Ooh, I like these types of questions. I think that environments do affect you. I've lived in a lot of US east coast cities, and I think that...

1) I hate the cold / gray weather. I'm sure I have some mild seasonal affective disorder or something.

2) I neeeeeeed the cultural stimulation (plays, events, talks) provided by cities. Also, being an immigrant and minority, I don't think rural anywhere is really an option for someone like me.

I guess I'm strongly in favor of warm, liveable cities. I'd like to explore the west coast cities of the US mainly because people there seem so much more laid back about things, the weather is okay, and there is SUCH GOOD FOOD from all parts of the world. Oh, and people from all parts of the world.

Living in the Southern part of the US (I'm being really liberal with capitalization today) where people are friendlier makes a very big difference for me. I like knowing I can ask for help, or at least be treated with kindness and courtesy.
 

Beargryllz

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I've learned to appreciate the complexities and intricate, unique features found upon and within a variety of corn and soy fields of all shapes and sizes.

I yearn for summers, because I have winter.
 

Virulence

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I used to live in northern NJ, which is a super high population density area. Always felt cramped, anxious, on edge, and it sucked. Combined with a lot of muggy, unpleasant weather most of the year - gray skies, ton of humidity - and annoying ice/snow in the winter I was more often depressed and unhappy than I was otherwise.

Moved to the southwest-south US about 5 years ago and it's much more pleasant. Less crappy weather, everything feels way less cramped. I feel like I'm more likely to run into kind, courteous people here than I was in the northeast, too. Still have down days, but the weather and environment hardly contributes to that at all outside of the summer. I find a lot more simple, inspirational beauty here, too - being able to actually see the stars at night is nice, cloudless sunrises or sunsets, things like that.
 

Gloriana

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Once I lived in England for an extended period of time, I finally figured out that I probably would not be happy living there permanently. I love London and being in London, and the landscape of England itself will always be beautiful and calming to me. Something in the atmosphere, both in the constant overcast clouds and the closed-off, suspicious feeling I got from most people really had an effect on me for the worse. I remember there was one day when the sun came out unexpectedly, and it was like people suddenly went nuts with smiles and openness, it was amazing. Then, the next day, it was back to this closed-off feeling. I couldn't stay there permanently, no matter how much I truly love it there.

My surroundings, the atmosphere, and the landscape do affect me in many ways. I was born and raised in NY, we moved just before I turned nine years old. I don't think I truly realized what a big change this was, and for years I longed for the seasons, the smells, and the feel of the historic little town I grew up in (Sayville, Long Island). It had a main street of old fashioned shops with awnings and storefronts, a spooky graveyard complete with a black, wrought iron gate that was almost falling over from age. There was this little museum I used to visit all the time, it had lots of relics from the late 1800s, early 1900s, and I was fascinated with this old fashioned picture viewer they had there. It was like a primitive ViewMaster, you looked through a pair of magnifying glasses at old photographs, and as a child it was like looking through an actual window into the past, like I was looking at ghosts since I knew these people had passed away already. It gave me chills, and I would wander around this little town wondering where they had all lived and if any parts of them might still be there. I think living there had a lot to do with the fierceness of my imagination, and to this day I have a special affection for ghost stories.

Now it has been over 20 years since we left NY, and I've stopped hating Florida. In fact, I've grown to fall in love with the South. I love the palm trees, the sand at the beach, and the salty, earthy, hot smell of the air here. I love the vividness of the blue skies we get down here, I love how the brightness of the sun makes colors pop, I love the purples and the golden hues the sun casts on everything down here when it sets. I love the laid back feel, I love that people take things at their own pace down here and don't give a shit if anyone calls them slow or lazy. I used to miss the gray/blue colors of New York so deeply, but now I can't stand to be away from the golden/green colors of Florida. The Spanish moss hanging from the trees, the palms swaying overhead, the pastel colors all over the architecture. It has made me calmer, and funny enough, more comfortable with my body. Shorts and tank tops over pants and coats makes a difference I think, as odd as that might sound. Once I learned to appreciate where I live, it made me sunnier and happier, as hokey as that is to say.

So yeah, I'm definitely affected by landscapes and where I live.
 

SilkRoad

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These are such interesting answers. Thanks all.

A few of you make good arguments for the sunny places and against the grey places. I've grown up with the grey places for the most part. West Coast Canada (Vancouver Island), Dublin for a few years, and London for the last several. Roughly the same climate in all - a lot of grey cloud, a lot of rain...sometimes there are sunny spells and sometimes they are even long, but it's not the overall climate.

England really doesn't come across that well here. ;) I feel connected to England, I think partly due to ancestry, partly cultural fascinations, partly having a good deal of understanding and sympathy for what the people are like - reserve, slow developing friendships, fortitude in the face of adversity, etc. I do realise though that my relationship to London is a really strange thing. After three years in Dublin I was more than ready to leave. I made good friends there, had some really good times (and bad times) but I feel nothing for the city now. Last time I was there was just for a few hours a couple of years ago, and I didn't feel like I liked it, didn't dislike it, just felt really indifferent almost, except for a few moments and places which touched me. It was weird. I wonder a bit if it was partly because my last year there was really rough and I sort of walled myself off emotionally from the place.

But London - after almost six years I still have a passion for it that freaks me out. I sometimes say jokingly that it's the love of my life and it's almost true. When I walk across Waterloo Bridge, or Trafalgar Square, or I glimpse Big Ben through the London Eye, or I hit one of my fav restaurants on Westbourne Grove, or get great cheap Portuguese coffee in my new area...I can still get really, really excited. "I can't believe I live here, I am so privileged." And yet there is so much stress and weirdness that goes along with this city. I think of it as a drug, as well as an abusive relationship. ;) Lovely, I know. But it just keeps me coming back and back and back. I don't know if I will be able to leave. Sometimes I think about it, sometimes I think I might just stay, but even if I do decide I'm ready to go, I am sure I will miss it incredibly. I love the feelings I get when I walk the streets. The layers of history and events and people. The things I've done. I've met one of my best friends, met a lot of other great people, worked for one of the biggest publishing houses in the world, gone to a backstage Depeche Mode party, seen virtually every band I love, heard Nobel Prize winner Seamus Heaney reading his poems twice, heard John le Carre reading twice, seen Jeremy Irons, Jude Law, Ian McKellen, Patrick Stewart and Derek Jacobi on stage, run away from an underground train because it was full of hideously drunk people, traveled to several continents, had poets flirt with me, the list goes on and on and on. Of course, there's also been a great deal of stress, falling in love twice with a total lack of success, spilled my guts trying to support people who don't appreciate it, discovering just how cold and hard and hedonistic people can be, been in some measure a victim of social prejudice (unless I totally deceive myself), that list goes on too. But I feel like over the last six years this place has defined me in so many ways and...I have a lot of work to do but I haven't turned out too badly. And I think there are other places where I might have ended up much more complacent, or much more bitter...those things in particular.

I certainly have a sensitivity to places. Even in terms of places I just like to travel to, I would take a city that gives me uncomfortable feelings over a city that gives me no feelings, any day. Berlin bewildered me with its sense of hedonism, the presence of the dead, the weight of history. I was fascinated but disturbed. Cairo was like being on crack cocaine - well, I think it was the closest I've ever been to that. New York was like a surge of electric energy. Japan had so much serenity that I felt my stress draining right away. Prague was a fairytale dream and I couldn't stop smiling, but was also aware of a dark and strange history. London is certainly the kind of place where you can walk the streets and get strange feelings and really not know why. I find that especially in the City, the oldest part of London. Later, you may find out about the history behind that place where you had the feeling, and it explains something. I think that goes back to psychogeography.

Sometimes I think I would like to try living in the States, though Canada appeals more to me generally as I grew up there. But Americans are friendly. I love New York, and I'd also consider Portland Oregon, or San Francisco.
 

Curator

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Portland is awesome, for a big city:D living on the outskirts, one can feel like they are in the middle of nature, but be a short drive away from any of the fun things about larger cities...
 

SilkRoad

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Portland is awesome, for a big city:D living on the outskirts, one can feel like they are in the middle of nature, but be a short drive away from any of the fun things about larger cities...

Portland reminded me of Canada. ;) that may have been part of the appeal. And Vancouver fits your above description very well too. It just seemed like a really nice city, clean and peaceful, close to nature, and a good cultural scene, and one of the biggest bookshops in the world ;)
 

Curator

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they also have a doughnut shop that sells maple doughnuts with bacon on them... I almost never eat pork or beef anymore, or processed sugars... but that doughnut...omg... so damn amazing... I think the place my friend got it for me from was voodoo doughnuts...
 

mochajava

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I like the outdoorsy Northwest cities a lot - Vancouver, Portland, Seattle. Has anyone seen the TV series Portlandia (essentially making fun of Portland and all things liberal?)
 

FDG

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Yeah, I can see what you mean, Silk, even though I can't articulate my feelings as eloquently. Most of all, I enjoy living in a place with a varied climate, with four definite seasons (I know Italy has a reputation for being sunny all-year-long, yet northern Italy's climate is more similar to the US east coast - washington DC area, mostly), because I have different emotional states and energy levels associated with each one of them. I lived in Copenhagen for 7 months, and while I loved how spring was even drier than in Italy, I was weirded out by a rainy summer - I am almost addicted to a certain oppressive heat which is typical of July and August around here, you're forced to become relaxed and live life slowly, something that - as an ENTJ - I suck at.

I've also lived in Rome for one year, where summertime lasts up to October - I felt like my natural biological clock didn't work as well, because I was becoming frantic (typically up here everyone becomes frantic by the time it's October) yet the city wasn't responding to my feelings.

I could take living in a northerly place, provided that four seasons were still present. Oh I also love cycling (I race), so it'd have to be somewhere near the countryside (couldn't take living in the city centre of a big metropolis).
 

Curator

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Id love to even VISIT Italy someday,lol... living there sounds pretty awesome!!!
 

SilkRoad

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Rome is such an amazing city. It took me a couple of days to really warm up to it, but I don't think I've ever been to such a cultural and historic storehouse, and I've been to some other incredible ones. Plus, the food, wine, coffee, and hot policemen are amazing. ;) I find Italian culture hard to relate to, though. I relate much better to northern Europe or North America, which is my background.

THat's interesting about seasons. I've lived in places where the seasons can tend to be...mushy, which is annoying. Of course they exist, but you never quite know what you will get.
 

FDG

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Eheh. Well, in many ways it is, although it has gotten a bit worse during the last 10 years (I mean, work-wise n' stuff). Still many people don't really appreciate what the have...

Rome is such an amazing city. It took me a couple of days to really warm up to it, but I don't think I've ever been to such a cultural and historic storehouse, and I've been to some other incredible ones. Plus, the food, wine, coffee, and hot policemen are amazing. I find Italian culture hard to relate to, though. I relate much better to northern Europe or North America, which is my background.

Right, I think it's always hard for anyone to "change" culture. Even expats often feel out of place after many years. And yeah, the only place which IME rivalled Rome was Athens, when it comes to being a cultural storehouse (but Rome is better kept).
 

BAJ

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I generally think a lot about this topic. I like reading about feng shui.

For five years, I was a gardener, specializing in Japanese or Oriental style. However, I was interested in creating the perfection of a moment...between person, place...an intersection in time...that perfectly effected them like moment of joy...

I do the same thing now, except that it is focused on providing beauty in the moment in the experience of their fish. I think about the store owner and the person with the house and the pond.

I really like the city for things like opera, plays, art museums, talks, clubs, social events, art openings, ballets, and so on. However, I dislike cities for the traffic, congestion, noise, activity, and too many people.

I got a chance and went to London for a few days, and I was so tired from jet lag. I just sat there, staring at the giant Monet lily painting. I loved the underground. I saw some museums and the tower.

At one museum, I had a major disagreement with some bobbies. There was a unowned package, and they were calling the bomb squad, but I was like very upset. I don't care what-all if there is a bomb, I want to see this NOW.

Hah, I walked across the Thames at 11:30 PM, and I picked up a trench-coat-shadow mugger. I turned around and walked towards him and said, "What the hell do you WANT? You better stay the f**k away from me." In which case, his plan somewhat failed. Plus, I out-ran him in the stairwell. There was a beggar lad in the stairwell who asked for money. The strategy game is that I give money to the boy, and the man trotting behind me knocks me on the head and takes the rest. But I ignored the lad and made jumped down the stairs.

I was trying to go to the plays, but they said I was much too late, so I looked at some big photos they had there of some third world scenes. Very nice art. Later, I walked back across and ate wings at the Hard Rock Cafe.

Ah, there were some boys singing in the Westminster Abbey. I think it was Christmas Eve. They were nice. Yet, some cleric told I should take my hat off. I was like, "But you are wearing a hat too." He had a little round cap on. I eventually took my cap off...since he said I'd be asked to leave. However, the rule was absurd because he didn't take his hat off. I mean really! How comes he gets to wear a hat and I can't? I think mine was a stocking cap because my ears were cold.

OH, I did like tea and biscuits in the afternoon and English breakfast. That was nice.

Thus, I had pleasant moments, like looking at the Monet. But there was also some frustrations and irritation. I left with mixed feelings.
 
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