[NF] Male NF's and dealing with our own mushiness

[animenagai]

Hey TypeC, it's been a few months since I posted. I just wanted to ask other male NF's here if they feel like they have to be more macho than they really are. I'm sure you guys all know what I'm talking about. Society assigns certain gender roles to the sexes, but those can clash with your personal preferences. I have no problem being a calm, rational thinker, but I do think that my mushy, chick-flicky side gets burried often due to these gender roles. I want you guys to tell me

a) if you have the same dilhemma (can't really answer the other questions if you don't share this same starting point)

b) does it feel natural to you to surpress this mushiness

c) if you do things purposely to keep this mushy (Fi?) side of you healthy

and if you answered yes to c, d) how do you do this?

I've just started to watch a really girly anime lately, just through a friend's recommendation and I've come to realise how I've neglected this side of me. The reality of it is that I fel comfortable in this state, but I do feel that it's been washed away a little bit by what society wants me to do (subconciously). I've ranted for long enough, your thoughts please.

 

[Serendipity]

A. Indeed

B. No but I am forcing myself and it has become something natural after a lot of training, just like depression.

C. I did when i was happy, not so much now.

D. Tip off my head: Play the gay friend in a circle of girls. It can be oh so much of a relief.
Another one: Don't bother with the fiction of male superstition, be your mushy self and end up being the cute assertive guy.
A third one: Find new friends somewhere completely different and build yourself a new character to play with them.
"Act out" the mushiness works. I mean that those tips above aren't really working, it's just temporary fixes.

OOT: Which anime? :3

 

[Elfboy]

a) I don't desire to be more macho, but I do get annoyed when other people expect to be less feminine, although most people would tell you I'm quite masculine as well. if anything, I have the opposite dilemna. I have great admiration for the feminine and the pure. Ever since I first saw Lord of the Rings when I was 10 I wanted to be like an elf (hence the screen name) MBTI wise, I quite easily embraced being an NF, but when I studied the enneagram, I wanted to be a 1, a 4 or a 9.
b) it feels incredibly unnatural, although I don't know if "mushy" is the best word for it
c and d) singing, watching anime, listening to music (I like opera because it is both extremely masculine and feminine)

PS: I think generation Y tends to be gender neutral, but takes it the wrong way. instead of men developing a feminine side and women developing a stronger, more masculine side, they've decided that it's bad to be either and try to be devoid of being masculine or feminine. for contrast, look at a country like Italy where most people, male or female, have well developed masculine and feminine sides.

 

[musttry]

This is an interesting topic that I myself have been exploring lately. I basically decided in my early twenties that I was going to focus on being rational i.e. on pushing my feelings aside and focusing on what I should and must do, rather than what I feel like doing. Although there are some definite advantages to this strategy, especially at the level of ambitions, I have discovered lately that I have some seriously repressed sentiments (they are coming out during sessions wiith my shrink).

The result of this, I have been told that I come off as anal, stick in the mud and tough minded. It wouldn't be so bad if it corresponded with my internal view of myself, BUT IT DOESN'T

This book is a good read when exploring the reasons behind this. In fact, you should keep in mind that ALL men are subject to society's pressures of manliness and regardless of type, most men have a hard time dealing with it and will feel such things as shame and weakness because of it.

To answer your third point, I have just know started on focussing on the mushy. What I'm trying out right now is focussing on being able to feel a healthy mushiness. That is, by honestly asking myself what it is I WANT or FEEL. Then, it can be appropriate to apply rationality to it. The first step is nevertheless getting to the unhidden, unburied, unwarped truth of what I am feeling. The second is dealing with it.

 

[nolla]

I guess what I am trying to do about it is to reinterpret situations in a different way. My feelings come on the surface when they are hurt, but in many situations it is possible to see that the people who hurt you are victims of their own narrow mind. Basically I just give people the benefit of doubt.

 

[Stanton Moore]

I saw something on the tube where a couple of married (to each other) dancers were being interviewed. The guy was pretty effeminate, yet he was totally confident, and his wife was very attractive. Aparently he's comfortable being who he is. I'm certain he isn't gay (my gaydar was finely calibrated at the manufactory).
I work with a gay fellow, who is also very effeminate. Even the ex-military dudes who work here respect him for his hard work and helpful nature. People see more than you think, and are more open and accepting too.
For me, it took dating a woman who actually liked that I would occasionally cry, and am sensitive to emotion. She helped me see things from a different perspective. I feel much more open to expressing my true nature now. It's quite liberating.

 

[Arclight]

Not macho.. no one will ever accuse me of being macho.

I have felt like a fucking doormat for far too long. I have been rebelling and learning to be assertive and to stand up for myself.
I am pretty rough on anyone I deem to be abusive and/or insensitive to my or other people's emotions.
It's obviously a work in progress and I am not doing too well.
People are just jerks and I am having trouble these days, not letting them know about it.

 

[Emectar]

haha i love this thread, i got happy just when i saw the title

a) I don't supress my mushiness, (which is exactly the word ive always used to describe it), anymore, but i did for a long enough time that the feeling is familiar.

b) It never felt natural for me to supress this side of myself.
Even before i was aware of type, (which was one of the most helpful ways for me to accept this part of myself), i could feel that something was off when i acted macho, or even slightly buried my NF'y impulses.

c) So anyways, in the past few years, between learning about type, which really helped so much, and getting a sense of confidence, ive gradually began to act entirely NF'y. The main thing for me was to realize that i didnt want or need the respect of people who looked down on emotions, and sensitivity etc. Once i did this, it was a lot easier to act exactly as i wanted. I still occasionally have moments where i worry that im unmanly in some way, but i found that i can satisfy that part of myself by playing basketball very intensely, (it gets out that testosterone that all males have NF or not, and keeps me from getting insecure about my manliness).

 

[Rail Tracer]

Couldn't help, this thing applies to me too.

a) Yes, but not in the means of being more macho. More like just fitting in, in some way, the stereotype of a guy?

b) I've generally have been pretty "stoic" for a long while now. It still doesn't feel natural after all this time, but it isn't uneasy to be stoic about something. When someone has something to say about mushiness, it just comes to the point of "Meh, whatever." Been trying to change this behavior (this attitude can grate with other people quite easily.)

c) What I do is what I do I guess. Mushy or not, they are my hobbies.

d) Again, hobbies. Whether it be playing video games, music, watching movies or drama. There are bound to be some things that somehow seem more feminine than masculine.

 

[animenagai]

I saw something on the tube where a couple of married (to each other) dancers were being interviewed. The guy was pretty effeminate, yet he was totally confident, and his wife was very attractive. Aparently he's comfortable being who he is. I'm certain he isn't gay (my gaydar was finely calibrated at the manufactory).
I work with a gay fellow, who is also very effeminate. Even the ex-military dudes who work here respect him for his hard work and helpful nature. People see more than you think, and are more open and accepting too.
For me, it took dating a woman who actually liked that I would occasionally cry, and am sensitive to emotion. She helped me see things from a different perspective. I feel much more open to expressing my true nature now. It's quite liberating.

I agree with you that people are more accepting than one may think. I also think that if they don't, you should just be yourself anyways. Fuck them. Despite this, I've found myself subconciously changing/surpressing my personality. Now that I really think about it, I hate it. This seems to be a quintesential 4w3 problem. I thought I was getting good at just being myself, I guess I had a big blindspot. It feels like I've had a big rock on my chest, and now I'm free. Then again, it's not the first time I've realised that I've been neglecting my mushy side. Hopefully I can keep my mushy side up.

Gtzk: Kimi ni Todoke

 

[Rail Tracer]

Gtzk: Kimi ni Todoke

Are you on episode 10?

Are you reading the manga? Lol

 

[animenagai]

Are you on episode 10?

Are you reading the manga? Lol

I'm just watching the anime . Just finished episode 18 of season 1 <3

 

[Rail Tracer]

I'm just watching the anime . Just finished episode 18 of season 1 <3

Long way to go until the second season.

But I like Ryuu, you'll understand later.

I think you might like Clannad, especially after story.

 

[animenagai]

Long way to go until the second season.

But I like Ryuu, you'll understand later.

I think you might like Clannad, especially after story.

lol dunno about that. I'm on the 23rd episode now . Can't stop watching it. The 1st season only has 25 episodes :/

 

[FunnyDigestion]

I can typically find some amusement in it (my 'mushiness')... although I'm really not a mushy kind of guy overall. Or better yet, the mush is MESHED, blended in with all the weird, darker stuff of my existence to create this holistic mixture of... goodness. which i then spread over the world like fertilizer. from which gold grows.

 

[HiddenAutumn]

I don't know if anyone else mentioned this, 'cause I didn't read all of the comments on here, but as a woman I'm shocked and amazed (in a good way) when I meet a guy who's really sweet, sincere and thoughtful. Those are actually my favorite qualities in the opposite sex. If that's what you mean by mushy then don't try and suppress that. I think we have enough stoic people in our society and it's a lot harder to feel connected with them.

Haha...although, come to think of it, sometimes I even feel some embarrassment when I find myself taken with a sappy movie or something of that sort . So I guess I can relate, even as a chick.

 

[Arclight]

You know, Miss Hidden Autumn.
There is a catch 22 to it.
The emotion and passion has a flip side.
All that feeling mixed with testosterone can be a bit volatile at times.
If I allow my passion and emotion to flourish, the potential for other emotions that are best kept away from others , become present as well.
It's a very delicate balance.
Gooey is great, but it's flammable.

 

[animenagai]

I kinda agree with that, though it's not that I'm worried about my testosterone, I'm worried about my own emotional fragility. I think part of this mushiness is simply a willingness to be vulnerable. If something's going to make me cry, I have to first allow it to affect me emotionally. I can train myself to just make fun of everything. You know, watch Romeo and Juliet and just make sexual innuendos throughout the whole thing . The world we live in can be very critical, in a logical sort of way. I feel like I need to present a tougher version of myself when I'm in those situations, and when i do it can be lots of fun. If I feel too vulnerable I get overly defensive, panicky and take things too personally. I'm not sure why this is but there does seem to be a correlation between my mushiness and my ability to be more calm and detached. If only I can just fulfill all my mushy needs in a certain setting and be a bit more calm in other settings. You know, like masturbating emotionally.

 

[HiddenAutumn]

I can see what you're saying Arclight. I think maybe that's why I'm only emotional when I'm alone. When I'm by myself I never keep my emotions in check, which can often lead to depression. When I'm around other people, I'm almost too good at controlling my emotions. Even my best friends have hardly ever seen me cry, which I actually do quite often, but no one would ever know.

I guess that kind of goes along with what animenagai was saying about having to present a tougher side of himself so he doesn't feel vulnerable. I'm the same way in a sense. So maybe it's not a guy thing, it's just human nature...or NF nature more likely.

 

[animenagai]

I'm sure it is just human nature, but I don't think anyone can deny that social norms do mess with your head. If you think being defensive emotionally is just human nature, then the social norms are catalysts which magnify the effects of this. There are just more reasons to be stoic when you're male, for better or for worse. For one thing, I'm sure there are a lot more closet mushers out there that are guys. I dunno, there just feels like there's this social pressure pressing against you every time you watch a chickflick or something.

PS: Takeru, I'm now up to date with Kimi ni Todoke . So sweet! I can't get the confession scene out of my head.