[MBTI General] A Strange Problem, Any Advice Appreciated.

[erm]

I've been improving my life gradually the last year or so. I've had a lot of success in many dimensions, and a lot of staying the same in others.

Thing is, for those areas I've yet to improve in, I know what I need to do and I likely will do it at this rate. There is, however, one very important area I simply have no idea how to proceed in. So I'm asking here. It's a very strange thing, so bare with me.

I was sixteen when this started, I know the specific week it began but am vague to the day. I simply stared at the sun for approximately fifteen seconds. It was a "sungazing" thing I was trying, I don't really remember much of the why though, and it's not really important now. I'm still stupid in many ways, but I was much more stupid back then.

Anyway, after those fifteen seconds I became very "numb", all my feelings (more the positive than the negative) we're weaker "echos" of what they were before. Long story short, I panicked, in a very numb way, got depressed for a few months, in a numb way, got over it, in a numb way, five years later here I am.

I'm much happier now than I've ever been before, but for different reasons. That numbness is still there. I've since experienced brief glimpses of the old height of feeling I could achieve before, and can't help but occasionally remember the power of what I felt back then in comparison to now.

There's lots of problems with subjectivity, bad memory, difficulty measuring and such, but I'm quite certain the numbness is still there. I've tried to account for things like nostalgia, cherry picking and such, but the big thing I can't isolate are simple changes that coincide with the growth and maturing process. The main thing I have to go on are songs, video and games. Media in general was the most direct way I experienced the change, as I got some very powerful feelings from there beforehand, and they were the first I noticed faded afterwards. I still have quantifiable behaviour that emphasises the difference in how I felt towards these things before and after (goosebumps, cold rushes, able to appreciate a song many times over, they all went immediately afterwards and have not returned).

There are many possibilities I've considered (I did briefly see a psychiatrist on the the matter, but can't afford to at the moment), but I truly have no idea which to favour or how to approach "solving" any of them.

The main possibilities I see:-

1. When it actually happened, I think my negative reaction to the initial change may have had a larger effect than whatever else happened.
2. I don't think the sun did anything to my mind directly. More likely something similar to the placebo effect or hypnotic suggestion.
3. Both a psychiatrist and someone else suggested things akin to PTSD and EMDR. I can see why, but I honestly don't know how to find any trauma in my past that may have caused it. Specifically the psychiatrist said the level of focus required to stare straight into the sun may have exaggerated certain negative thoughts (I can't quite remember what she said). This doesn't help me solve much.

What I'm asking for is any direction really. Ideas, similar experiences, advice, questions etc. I'm stuck really, and anything you could offer would be much appreciated. I'm aware it's a strange situation, and feel quite vulnerable posting this.

 

[Vasilisa]

Thank you for being brave and opening up about this personal topic, erm. I know how it feels to do that on this forum. Your story is interesting. Reading it, I think about photo editing, and how the process of turning up brightness leaves color washed out, fainter.

So, put another way, there was a distinct point in your life after which you could no longer feel the highs (and lows?) of emotion the way you had prior? If I understand correctly, you know that during past times you had joyful feelings that were more intense than what you feel now, but looking backward on those past times doesn't evoke that richness, and nothing in the present can either. So its almost like being a a malfunctioning monitor that can no longer project a full spectrum?

I want to think over what you have posted and post something more later on. In the meantime, please know that someone hears you.



I sincerely hope it doesn't offend if I say that your story made me think of the movie π, which I was discussing just recently.

 

[Curator]

*hugs* im not sure what to add to this at this time, im very tired... even if i wasnt, im not sure what I can say to help...

 

[erm]

So, put another way, there was a distinct point in your life after which you could no longer feel the highs (and lows?) of emotion the way you had prior? If I understand correctly, you know that during past times you had joyful feelings that were more intense than what you feel now, but looking backward on those past times doesn't evoke that richness, and nothing in the present can either. So its almost like being a a malfunctioning monitor that can no longer project a full spectrum?

Well, yes, essentially. I've sort of forgotten how intense it was, getting "glimpses" of what is was like less often than I used to. Makes me worried I'll eventually either forget or simply stop caring about the difference. It makes me wonder, if it wasn't such a small time-frame in which all this occurred, would I even have noticed?

Prior to the event, I could initiate positive feelings every day that had more intensity than anything I can reach now. Whether it's a lower "upper-limit" to intensity, or a fade out where the less intense feelings also decreased is hard to say. I have to make a conscious effort to remind myself of that now.

As the for the negative side, there certainly was a decrease there too. However, I obviously had, and still have, far less concern for a decrease in the intensity of negative feelings over positive ones. Though I would gladly take the negative back if it means getting the positive. I'm sure physical pain didn't change, however, just as physical sensation didn't.

I sincerely hope it doesn't offend if I say that your story made me think of the movie π, which I was discussing just recently.[/SIZE]

Well never heard of that before. I can see the similarities. Shame I'm not getting any divine inspiration from my situation, it'd be a nice silver-lining.

Thank you for being brave and opening up about this personal topic, erm. I know how it feels to do that on this forum.

In the meantime, please know that someone hears you.

*hugs* im not sure what to add to this at this time, im very tired... even if i wasnt, im not sure what I can say to help...

Thanks. Considering how strange the whole thing is, I'm quite worried people won't take it seriously. It's reassuring to hear that.

I know it looks similar to Anhedonia, which is strongly associated with depression. I am, however, not depressed in the slightest. Neither clinically nor otherwise. This isn't eating me up inside or destroying my life. I do think it has lowered the quality of my life drastically, and continues to do so, but in a very emotionally unnoticeable way, since my feelings don't seem to remember the old intensity like the rest of me does (they still catch the glimpses though). I think there were some benefits to becoming more detached and distant at the time I did, maybe even more than the drawbacks, but those benefits have long since run-out, and I'm quite desperate to get this sorted.

Some ideas I acted on some time ago:-

1. That the event had caused me to over-analyse things, and such analysis was causing me to detach from my feelings. Simply put, when I felt a rush, I would instinctively begin analysing and comparing it, making the rush less intense as a result.

2. Related to the "openness to experience" personality trait supposedly increasing the enjoyment of music. The event may have caused me to close off, not allowing myself to enter or follow the experience to the same degree.

Both kind of similar. Any attempts I made based off those theories yielded no results though. Admittedly they don't provide much information in way of a cure, but I improvised some stuff.

 

[nolla]

Weird how fast it happened. I don't think I've ever heard that before. But being numb is not anything too extraordinary. I think most of the people are numb in some way or another as a part of defense against the world. Either you can accept it as it is, or open yourself for all that comes at you. The trick is to make yourself vulnerable in all situations. That's not too easy.

But if you want something more practical, maybe you should try writing a journal (without sensoring anything, free association if possible), or learn something like dancing or joga or kung fu, anything that is concerned with freeing your body or mind.

 

[erm]

Weird how fast it happened. I don't think I've ever heard that before. But being numb is not anything too extraordinary. I think most of the people are numb in some way or another as a part of defense against the world. Either you can accept it as it is, or open yourself for all that comes at you. The trick is to make yourself vulnerable in all situations. That's not too easy.

I know it's normal to put up psychological guards. I didn't think it was normal to never experience such highs ever again. I thought them becoming increasingly rare, or more focused to fewer aspects of life was the norm, not them simply vanishing never to return.

But if you want something more practical, maybe you should try writing a journal (without sensoring anything, free association if possible), or learn something like dancing or joga or kung fu, anything that is concerned with freeing your body or mind.

I'll try the journal thing, thanks. Never done that before, worth a shot. I meditate for about an hour each day now, and have been for several months. Having plenty of lessons, improving and such. Meditation (and things like exercise or socialising more) have made no difference whatsoever, as far as I can tell. They've changed my emotional landscape, sure, in positive ways, sure, but the intensity is as lacking as ever.

 

[nolla]

I know it's normal to put up psychological guards. I didn't think it was normal to never experience such highs ever again. I thought them becoming increasingly rare, or more focused to fewer aspects of life was the norm, not them simply vanishing never to return.

In my experience it is both. The amount of control people have over their lives makes all surprises less frequent, and surprises are the usual highs and lows. What makes it less powerful is the escape from the now. If you are having a good time and thinking about something else, then the experience is less real in a sense. Just focus on what you are thinking, and you see most of it is taking you away from the present experience.

 

[erm]

In my experience it is both. The amount of control people have over their lives makes all surprises less frequent, and surprises are the usual highs and lows. What makes it less powerful is the escape from the now. If you are having a good time and thinking about something else, then the experience is less real in a sense. Just focus on what you are thinking, and you see most of it is taking you away from the present experience.

Maybe that's true, I don't know. I'd considered something similar a while ago.

I'm sceptical whether it's related to this though. A simple video when I was, err, about 14 I think, gave me a cold rush each time I saw it. The very first time I'm not so sure about, but I remember watching it literally dozens of times afterwards and getting an intense rush each time. It was just a certain moment in a cartoon I liked. There was so much ecstasy it was difficult to focus on and so I started moving or expending energy fast to distract myself (rather like with intense pain). It wasn't a surprise, especially the fiftieth time I watched, yet I still got that same rush, and I was imagining a different scenario in my head each time, so was quite distracted and unfocused.

Nothing even close to that post-sungazing. There were many things like that I was enjoying right up until it happened. One of the many times I cried in the depression that followed was when I watched such a video and felt nothing. Once in the five and a half years since do I remember experiencing enough excitement as to reflexively cause movement, and slightly overwhelm my mind like happened often back then, but I remember thinking afterwards that it paled in comparison to what I could achieve daily before. And like I said, it was excitement, not ecstasy. I've had plenty of adrenaline rushes since, of course, but they've been a consistently neutral experience for me throughout my life, and remain so now. Intense pain still has the same effect too.

I certainly know people my own age and slightly older who get that same intense rush from music/video. I know someone from back then who seemed to get more intense experiences than I did. He's the same in that area now, it seems. Less expressive about it, but describes similar experiences as before.

 

[nolla]

I'm sceptical whether it's related to this though. A simple video when I was, err, about 14 I think, gave me a cold rush each time I saw it. The very first time I'm not so sure about, but I remember watching it literally dozens of times afterwards and getting an intense rush each time. It was just a certain moment in a cartoon I liked. There was so much ecstasy it was difficult to focus on and so I started moving or expending energy fast to distract myself (rather like with intense pain). It wasn't a surprise, especially the fiftieth time I watched, yet I still got that same rush, and I was imagining a different scenario in my head each time, so was quite distracted and unfocused.

Hmm, yeah, you're right, I didn't think about that...

I don't know, I guess I've got nothing for you. Usually I would put this in the category of detachment from immediate reality, but your case seems so different. I know that I was once numb in a very similar way and it was because of some events and the defensive reaction, but I really can't tell if this is the same. It seems quite different. Even the fact that you are aware of the numbness is radically different. I realized it only when I was becoming better, at which point I was already suffering quite a lot.

 

[erm]

Hmm, yeah, you're right, I didn't think about that...

I don't know, I guess I've got nothing for you. Usually I would put this in the category of detachment from immediate reality, but your case seems so different. I know that I was once numb in a very similar way and it was because of some events and the defensive reaction, but I really can't tell if this is the same. It seems quite different. Even the fact that you are aware of the numbness is radically different. I realized it only when I was becoming better, at which point I was already suffering quite a lot.

Well, I'll give some of the stuff you mentioned a shot. Thanks for the input.

My main plan of action at the moment is to try as many things as possible that might help. Somewhere along the lines seeing a psychiatrist again and perhaps trying a drug approach, but until then all this other stuff that might work.

I'll probably make a list later of all the stuff to try.

 

[Curator]

well, now that im less tired, after getting a small amount of sleep, id like to state that some of what you have said seems to relate directly to some of the issues ive had with PTSD, especially the numbness and disconnect...ive gotten a lot better, but it took awhile... and sometimes I fall back into it a bit, but that is becoming more and more rare... im still not sure what advice to give you, but just thought id let you know you arent entirely alone...*more hugs*

 

[erm]

well, now that im less tired, after getting a small amount of sleep, id like to state that some of what you have said seems to relate directly to some of the issues ive had with PTSD, especially the numbness and disconnect...ive gotten a lot better, but it took awhile... and sometimes I fall back into it a bit, but that is becoming more and more rare... im still not sure what advice to give you, but just thought id let you know you arent entirely alone...*more hugs*

Thanks. It does look a lot like psychological trauma, I agree, though not necessarily PTSD any more than the other types of trauma. Just two days ago I went over my memories in chronological order, trying to identify negative experiences I've had throughout my life. I did it a second time yesterday, remembering even more. Simply reliving them, acknowledging my reaction, and then gently trying to let it go. It was surprising just how much came to me with a bit of thought and memory technique.

I felt strangely irritable and stressed after the first time. Literally as soon as I hit work an hour later and for the whole next day. Rare for me to get like that, so perhaps going over negative experiences in my life undid a knot of sorts (hopefully).

Anyway, here are three ascending examples of repression/psychological guarding I found:-

1. In the past few months two of my childhood cats died. I've known them both since they were kittens, one died at 14 years of age, the other at 17. I was much closer to the 17 year old, yet my reaction was much stronger when the 14 year old died. In fact I've had no negative reaction whatsoever to the 17 year old, so far.
2. When I was 15 I had major surgery that put me in hospital for 10 days. There were three very painful experiences I had during that time. One was being turned on my side to change my epidural, another standing and walking for the first time. Those two I specifically remember in detail, especially the pain I felt (I remember the actual pain, not just that it was painful). The third however, was when I was on self applied morphine. I had a button to press for a morphine shot and a button to call a nurse. My mother and stepfather went out for dinner, since I was looking quite well, so I was alone. The morphine had already made me weak, but I became too weak to press the buttons, and too weak to speak. I was lying on a bed with no more morphine, unable to get help for several hours. I remember that it was painful, but have very little recollection of the event, nor the pain I felt during it.
3. My dad died when I was young, yet I didn't have a negative reaction. I specifically remember having to pretend I was upset just to stop people thinking badly of me. Now I was very much a daddy's boy until then, so I would have expected a much stronger reaction. Using my response to people I "sort of know" dying, friend of a friend type of relationships, as a gauge, my reaction should have been very strong indeed.

So there are three examples of repression I know of. Yet when facing them, I have no idea how to undo them. I hope I can, because it seems similar to what happened with sungazing. Maybe even part of what happened.

I'm still gathering that list of potential solutions. This is actually one of them, which I'll put at the top of the list.

 

[nolla]

Thanks. It does look a lot like psychological trauma, I agree, though not necessarily PTSD any more than the other types of trauma. Just two days ago I went over my memories in chronological order, trying to identify negative experiences I've had throughout my life. I did it a second time yesterday, remembering even more. Simply reliving them, acknowledging my reaction, and then gently trying to let it go. It was surprising just how much came to me with a bit of thought and memory technique.

Oh, yeah, I didn't remember that, but yes, this was helpful for me too. I actually built a timeline of my life and tried to fit all of my childhood memories on it. It was a big revelation for me back then. Many things had changed places and combined themselves with other memories, and some things that were actually dreams had been interpreted as memories. Make a timeline, then ask someone who knows what actually happened. You can't trust the memory as such, but you can see that what you choose to remember are part of who you are.

Oh, and don't let go of things before you're sure you have realised their importance. I remember going through some memories with a hateful attitude, but as I went through it, they started to be interpreted in a different way and the hatred disappeared. Shame is maybe the hardest, though...

 

[erm]

Oh, and don't let go of things before you're sure you have realised their importance. I remember going through some memories with a hateful attitude, but as I went through it, they started to be interpreted in a different way and the hatred disappeared. Shame is maybe the hardest, though...

I'm not sure what their importance is supposed to be?

I just don't want to react negatively to things that have no more relevance, so I'm "letting go" of the negative response and accepting that they happened. I'm not doing this with suppressed memories/emotions though, as there's nothing to let go of. I honestly don't know what to do about them yet, though the internet is helping me out with ideas.

I'm definitely tracking reliable memories and finding out what really happened. No worries there.

There is a lot to go through, and I'm not paying any attention to neutral or positive memories. I might look at them in the future some time.

I know people find different things traumatic to varying degrees, but I don't think I've found any significant trauma. I'm more hoping that by learning to deal with this kind of stuff, I might learn something about whatever happened with sun-gazing, maybe even gaining some skill to help overcome it. It's not like I have anything better to go on.

 

[Onceajoan]

Well, I think your psychiatrist explained it well. It sounded like trauma even before I read the part about PTSD as noted by your doctor. If it's causing you real pain, you could consider taking antidepressants. I have PTSD (memory loss, flashbacks) some books have helped me. It all depends on how far you want to go down this path of figuring it all out. Now that I'm older, I'm content living with some ignorance. I think that can be part of the growth process -- just letting go.

 

[nolla]

I'm not sure what their importance is supposed to be?

I just don't want to react negatively to things that have no more relevance, so I'm "letting go" of the negative response and accepting that they happened. I'm not doing this with suppressed memories/emotions though, as there's nothing to let go of. I honestly don't know what to do about them yet, though the internet is helping me out with ideas.

Well, in my case the relevance was that by seeing that I have hatred toward certain individuals made me able to view them in a more neutral light than what was possible through the distortion of repressed anger. Even if I wouldn't associate with these people anymore, there would still be a reason to realize this because similar situations or people might trigger the same defense of repression.

 

[erm]

Well, I think your psychiatrist explained it well. It sounded like trauma even before I read the part about PTSD as noted by your doctor. If it's causing you real pain, you could consider taking antidepressants. I have PTSD (memory loss, flashbacks) some books have helped me. It all depends on how far you want to go down this path of figuring it all out. Now that I'm older, I'm content living with some ignorance. I think that can be part of the growth process -- just letting go.

Well memory loss and flashbacks are not things I can relate to. Very minor versions, dare I say normal, that have been around long before all this, but not the kind I see linked to PTSD. Sounds like you've had/have a struggle though, and hope you're dealing with it okay.

Drugs are on my list, though as a last resort.

It's not pain, it's lack of pleasure. I'm going to take this far, but there are limits. Out of interest, what are the books that helped you?

Well, in my case the relevance was that by seeing that I have hatred toward certain individuals made me able to view them in a more neutral light than what was possible through the distortion of repressed anger. Even if I wouldn't associate with these people anymore, there would still be a reason to realize this because similar situations or people might trigger the same defense of repression.

Hmm. I'll bare that in mind, thanks.

Anyway, I've had an interesting addition to my list of solutions. I'm going to try being, to put it in this forum's language, the little INFP child I used to be. Not the teenager a little bit before this happened, which has been my failed solution many times before, but several years before that. The dreamy, impressionable, completely-out-of-it kid I once was. This is going by two theories, that sungazing was a catalyst, a lens, or the final straw that caused something built up to be released, or that sungazing altered mental behaviour enough to cause all this. Both of which may well be reversed by such therapy.

I have holiday time due, and might take a whole week off to dive 24/7 to do it as best I can.

 

[Anew Leaf]

I have done some EMDR with my therapist. It sounds bizarre but it does actually work. I don't have any major trauma on a world scale - just growing up as an INFP in a very not iNFP world with the addition of my mom getting cancer and slowly dying last year.

The concept around it is that when we experience trauma of some sort, our brain stores those memories into a separate part of the brain for protection. If we don't get a chance to process these memories later then they can get locked in there, hidden away.

A lot of times we can have a negative thought feedback loop running in the background. Frequently this loop dips into those locked areas and we get stuck.

EMDR helps you unlock those memories and process them into your main brain so that they are freed up.

I did a session around a bullying episode I encountered in 2nd grade. At the end of the session I was able to see with my adult mind that those kids had their own issues, that I wasn't weird, and that I was ok as who I am and was. It's a small start in the right direction for me

I hope this information can help you a bit! Much hugs to you on being brave.