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[MBTI General] NFPs and NFJs... more different than alike?

Such Irony

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the more I study cognitive function and read forum posts, I'm realizing that NFPs and NFJs are really much more different than they are similar for example:

NFPs:
personal values
integrity
justice/honor
intrapersonal intelligence
low neuroticism
metaphors/analogies


I don't think neuroticism correlates much with type. Intrapersonal intelligence and interpersonal intelligence seem to correlate more with I and E, respectively but most of the NFs I know have well developed interpersonal and intrapersonal intelligence.

Is peace/mercy Fe related? Is justice/honor Fi related? I'm not sure. It seems like just about every NF, regardless of type strives for these things.
 

Viridian

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Isn't "honor", in some senses of the word, a Fe notion? As in, "family honor"?
 

Thalassa

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I do think interpersonal corresponds to Fe more and intrapersonal more to Fi, by default. That's the primary thing I believe he got correct. However, it's not to say that the opposite type can't learn those traits as they grow older.
 

skylights

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yeah, i tend to agree about inter/intra personal.

but at the same time, there are such fine lines between the two. helping someone feel better is both interpersonal and intrapersonal. how you go about it could be primarily either, but your reasoning could be the opposite. and you could totally end up at the same conclusions. i think both Fi and Fe use both, just we lean more heavily to one side or the other...

like...

observation: amy has expressed distress. how should i respond?

interpersonal reasoning - if she is in distress, she could unintentionally hurt others, and herself.
intrapersonal reasoning - distress feels terrible.

general conclusion: i should help her. how should i help her?

interpersonal reasoning - people like feeling supported and having others reach out. i will reach out.
intrapersonal reasoning - she seems to have many negative emotions. i will change those.

general conclusion: go talk to her. how to start?

interpersonal reasoning - it is most polite and non-threatening to ask a question.
intrapersonal reasoning - i don't know what's going on in her head. i'll ask a question.

general conclusion: ask how she's doing.

and so on...

i feel like intrapersonal reasoning when dealing with others is like "pinging"... you ping to yourself... then the other... then yourself... then the other... there's no in between. whereas interpersonal is all about the in-betweens.
 

Thalassa

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yeah, i tend to agree about inter/intra personal.

but at the same time, there are such fine lines between the two. helping someone feel better is both interpersonal and intrapersonal. how you go about it could be primarily either, but your reasoning could be the opposite. and you could totally end up at the same conclusions. i think both Fi and Fe use both, just we lean more heavily to one side or the other...

like: amy has expressed distress. how should i respond?

interpersonal reasoning - if she is in distress, she could unintentionally hurt others.
intrapersonal reasoning - i hate feeling in distress. she probably does too.

general conclusion: i should help her. how should i help her?

interpersonal reasoning - people like feeling supported and having others reach out. i will reach out.
intrapersonal reasoning - she seems to have many negative emotions. i will change those.

general conclusion: go talk to her. how to start?

interpersonal reasoning - it is most polite and non-threatening to ask a question.
intrapersonal reasoning - i don't know what's going on in her head. i'll ask a question.

general conclusion: ask how she's doing.

and so on...

I agree, and that comes with maturity as well. I just think young Fe has a natural tendency to get in synch with the pulse of the social environment - even as an introvert, they still at least pick up on it and employ this even if they don't actively always synch heavily (or even control and manipulate things) like an ExFJ.

On the other hand, young Fi may be stricken by "lone wolf" syndrome, and like "how dare they intrude on my beliefs/identity" and can go as far as to seperate themselves from others in tenacious defense of "being who they really are." Young Fi spends larger amounts of time writing in their diary and trying to figure themselves out, while possibly ignoring how to analyze others in the immediate environment...though they may take a strong interest in philosophy, spirituality, sociology, or psychology to "understand others" in a more abstract fashion.

That's what I mean by "default" this is what Fe vs. Fi teenagers are more likely to do, but as they mature they can begin to look more similar or develop shadow strengths.
 

Thalassa

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I'll even give an example of me vs. my ENFJ bff in high school:

We were both generally liked and thought of as funny, maybe even perceived as popular within our own group (not popular as in the jock/cheerleader stereotype, just more like well-received and known by the greater circles we traveled in, boys liked us, etc.) ...but she was MUCH MORE socially adept. She was a born charmer and always had a wonderful finesse with other people. I think she actually knew more people than me...while, I, on the other hand, could function socially but not with her same grace and ability (nor did I possess even the same desire to socialize to the extent that she did) ...and could be received with equal parts love or hate, depending on who you asked, because at that point in my life I had no qualms about Fi confrontations with *anybody* unless they physically frightened me. I also think I spent more time alone pondering glorious me, and would occasionally even skip class, walk off campus alone, just to explore the world by myself.

She's still much more socially connected than I am. She's an clear Fe dom.
 

INTPness

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Just admit it. You guys all love each other.
 

Amargith

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When we're not frustrated at the others preference in priorities, yes ;)
 

skylights

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though, in school, an ENFJ friend of mine actually was less globally liked - she was more clear about who she liked and did not. whereas i was much less clear about it. i have never been as socially connected as she was, however.

INTPness said:
Just admit it. You guys all love each other.

maybeeee... :heart:

and we love you, too! :D
 

Thalassa

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My ENFJ sister is more the "directive" ENFJ, while my bff is more the stereotypical Messiah, so to speak. I think it's a difference in enneagram. I think directive ENFJs may find themselves not as well-liked by *everybody*, but still are extremely socially connected. My sister still seems to constantly be thinking of group harmony and family loyalty. I also believe she's 9w8, which would make her more of a referree (or warm, nurturing yet firm guidance counselor) than a charismatic pal. My sister is still pretty charismatic, though. It's just that she morally knows better than you do.
 

OrangeAppled

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estjs just AREN'T ALL THAT INTO AMPERSANDS, SRY INFPS who absolutely share more in common with us than infjs, particularly the organic, non-forum varieties.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.....rephrase please.

I'm gonna disagree with you on this point. to me, INFPs and INFJs don't look or act alike at all and their motivations are completely different

Motivations, true, if you dig deep. However, surface motivations tend to be in the form of ideals for NFs, which can seem similar among all of the types (which is why Keirsey, who types based on surface qualities & behaviors, lumps NFs together). As for looking/acting, I think all INxx types can appear somewhat similar until you get close-up. I consistently get compared to all my other INxx family (including an INFJ aunt) and other INxx I know IRL. While I feel a kinship with ISFPs & ENFPs, we never get compared IRL because our demeanors & behaviors differ too much. There's an aloof, detached aspect stemming from being an introvert & an intuitive, even when you're a warm Feeler (which I am not - warm, that is). Online, you notice the distinctions much more between INxx types & the similarities between NFPs (and FPs in general) because you're seeing thoughts typed out, not demeanors.
 

Elfboy

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mm. we're close deep down inside, but our outward behaviors and often our surface motivations are different.

i'm closest to INFPs personality-wise but tend to have better rapport IRL with ENFJs. i love INFJs online but i don't know how to interact with them IRL. they usually confuse me.

sometimes Fe thinks Fi is irresponsible, and vice versa. it seems that our own side of the fence pays attention to "what really matters". except not really, both functions seek to achieve the same goal (love, harmony, security, etc) in the end. they just have different touchpoints.

i am impressed by the ease at which Fe dom/aux know how to handle interpersonal situations, often. sometimes i get so wrapped up in how to take care of it perfectly and address each individual's needs and not hurt one or the other and not overstep boundaries and all that confusion... and an FJ just breezes in and handles things perfectly... it's like... :shock::heart:



yeah, we don't see the Fe needs as easily. the way we care for people is different. though to be honest, the emphasis you're putting on impersonal values here is odd. i mean, yes, i care about humanistic values, and extrapolate to a bigger picture, but i'm not that black-and-white in terms of right and wrong. INFPs are a little more solid ethically, though i would still assert that most NFPs see morality in terms of fine scales and subtle weightings, not simple Right and Wrong.

the other thing is, sometimes i think that Fe doms will take care of things that i really don't need someone taking care of for me, but they're not there to support me when i need support. like, when i'm having a hard time emotionally, what i need is someone to sit with me and empathize and just be accepting. ime (experience with mom, several close friends), Fe doms really don't like doing this. they find it useless, superfluous. the other thing i notice with NFJs is that there's often a barrier of superiority when they're helping. there's a tangible feeling of "i am the helper, you are the helped", instead of a more equal "we are both hurt persons and it's my turn to help you now". which is not to say i don't love ENFJs. i have watched over and over again the ENFJs i know do incredibly selfless things. they'll devote themselves to mentoring someone, get up and out at 3 in the morning to help someone in distress, clear their schedule for the evening to make sure that someone's going to be all right. it's beautiful.

and the way i care for people... i'll sit with them for hours and talk if that's what they need. make them presents, write them letters, help them figure out what to do next. i'll drive them across five states in the middle of the night, if that's what they need. i will do just about anything for someone i love. but it's especially when i'm passionately discussing something that i can't deal with others' needs... the problem is that Fi is attuned to inner emotions, and when my feelings are overwhelming, i can't pick up on others' very well. it's as if my internal radio were suddenly turned to loud screamo. it's awful, and i can't hear the sadness of your music because my own music is blaring. so if in an argument i seem very hurtful... it's because i'm hurting so much myself that i can't even deal with the other person right now. and often, in argument, the other person appears to be attacking me. it baffles me how my mother (ESFJ) or very close friend (ENFJ) sometimes think that i intend to hurt them when defending myself after they have accused me... i didn't chase them down and i'm defending myself... how does that even make sense... :confused:

obviously, a growth area for me is to learn how to turn down the internal radio. it's hard, though, because Fi signals are amplified by Ne.

anyway. for the record, i do regardless :heart: and am generally quite impressed by ENFJs.



QFT, and seconded



true, and true. whatever enneatype i am, i come off as Fe IRL, apparently. in the forums it's easier to see the difference. i think that's part of why i get along better in general IRL with FJs than with fellow NFPs.

underlined: actually, I think it's more the opposite. our actions to non NFs often seem the same, but it seems to me that we are very different on the inside

first bold: I really have to try to be sensitive to this. it's very easy for me to think NFJs are completely useless and chase after things that don't have any value whatsoever, but I'm sure I look the same way to them as they tend to be much more sociable creatures (my natural tendency is to view being social as weak, which is of course ridiculous lol)

second bold: it's true, both the NFJs and SFJs I know have this problem. :doh:

PS: I think you're a 2w3 :laugh:
 

Elfboy

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I find myself understand NFPs easily, but not agreeing with them often. (Obviously, that could be said for some NFJs I know as well, but not as often). No one drives me straight up a tree faster than an ENFP, though. (no offense meant, I have some close ENFP friends!) More immature ENFPs tend to be the ones I can't stomach. Once they're on a feeling rampage, there's not a lot of logic involved in their impassioned conversation (or so it seems to me).

I'm not sure where the differences lie exactly..I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of others.

One major difference I've noted is that while I admire ENFPs' passion for causes, they tend to be a little more oblivious of the needs of their families or more boring responsibilities than NFJs. They have a wicked strong personal sense of right from wrong, but can be a little oblivious of the needs of their closest loved ones, even while passionately discussing something they feel strongly about. IOW, boundless compassion in some areas, but seemingly oblivious to other's pain in other areas.

underlined: this is SO true
bold: interesting, I haven't noticed this.
 

Elfboy

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Oh boy, here it goes... I hope this thread doesn't become another INFJ/ENFP spat.

Firstly, Elfboy, given how you feel about the INFJs you've met, I think your list seems quite nonjudgemental. Good job, dude! :yes:

Secondly, let's face it, you're no ordinary ENFP - most of them are Sevens, not Eights. Enneagram can have a pretty good influence on how people of those types function. INFPs who are Twos or Sixes can look INFJ-ish; vice-versa for INFJ Nines. Same deal with ENFP Twos or 7w6s and ENFJ Eights.

Take me, for instance. If you look at my thread (decayed beyond belief), half of the posters think I'm an INFP and half think I'm an INFJ. There are some serious misconceptions going around about Fi/Fe, which is why threads like this quickly become a battlefield.

Again, just my 2¢. I may elaborate a little later.

true. enneagram plays a big role. ENFP 6s can seem like INFJs, ENFP 2s can seem like ENFJs, ENFP 8w7s can seem like ENTJs or ESTPs, ENFP 8w9s can seem like ENTJs or INTJs and ENFP 4s and 9s can seem like INFPs. this being said, I think NFs of all varieties are extremely dangerous when they go bad (especially because we're the ones that are least expected to)
 

Thalassa

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true. enneagram plays a big role. ENFP 6s can seem like INFJs

oooooh...maybe that's what it is...

ENFP 2s can seem like ENFJs, ENFP 8w7s can seem like ENTJs or ESTPs, ENFP 8w9s can seem like ENTJs or INTJs and ENFP 4s and 9s can seem like INFPs. this being said, I think NFs of all varieties are extremely dangerous when they go bad (especially because we're the ones that are least expected to)

This is actually a very good assessment of enneagram/type variants.
 

Ms. Tea

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the more I study cognitive function and read forum posts, I'm realizing that NFPs and NFJs are really much more different than they are similar for example:

NFPs:
personal values
integrity
justice/honor
intrapersonal intelligence
low neuroticism
metaphors/analogies

NFJs:
group values
harmony
peace/mercy
interpersonal intelligence
high neuroticism
symbols/epiphanies

does anyone else feel the same way?

I think your spot on here :yes:
 

Aleksei

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the more I study cognitive function and read forum posts, I'm realizing that NFPs and NFJs are really much more different than they are similar for example:

NFPs:
personal values
integrity
justice/honor
intrapersonal intelligence
low neuroticism
metaphors/analogies

NFJs:
group values
harmony
peace/mercy
interpersonal intelligence
high neuroticism
symbols/epiphanies

does anyone else feel the same way?
It sounds about right; though I don't think there is an intrinsic set of values or behavior inherent to either Fi or Fe. The difference is, quite simply, that Fe types will look to role models for guidance, whereas Fi types rely on their own sense of right and wrong.
 

skylights

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underlined: actually, I think it's more the opposite. our actions to non NFs often seem the same, but it seems to me that we are very different on the inside

well, that's kind of true too, when i mean inside i mean less "mind" than... core? like at the end of the day, NFP and NFJ wants and needs are pretty similar. big-picture meaning, connection, support, love.

PS: I think you're a 2w3 :laugh:

:laugh: i appreciate your opinion! i don't think so, my mom's a 2 and i don't share the "need to be needed" thing, but thank you regardless!!
 

Elfboy

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does anyone else feel that NFPs resemble NTJs more than NFJs?
 
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