[MBTI General] Feeling Like You've Let NFPs Down

[Uytuun]

without having to fear being hurt, being judged or otherwise stabbed inthe back

But that's kind of what you do to others when you scrutinise and decide they aren't compatible...

IME, with Fi+Fi the difficult part is that it's all implied and silent there's no actual dialogue between the parties, you can't explain yourself, there's just observation and judgement. In a way it pretty harsh and self-centered (I'm guilty of it too).

 

[Amargith]

But that's kind of what you do to others when you scrutinise and decide they aren't compatible...

IME, with Fi+Fi the difficult part is that it's all implied and silent there's no actual dialogue between the parties, you can't explain yourself, there's just observation and judgement. In a way it pretty harsh and self-centered (I'm guilty of it too).

Actually, there's no judgement involved, at least not the kind I'm referring to. There's simply the conclusion that you're not compatible. However, in my friends I don't necessarily need that, I just want to have a good time with them, so it's a non-issue. And yes, part of it is self-centered. This is about my own unique personal connections, and as much as I'm easy-going in a group setting and am all for diversity as it creates interesting environments, I'm not about to let someone who I may only hurt with my views and who will hurt me with his come close enough to do that damage. That would be foolish, masochistic and sadistic all at once.

You're correct that it's perhaps not fair to not inform the other party about it and have a dialogue. I do this on occasion, but only when asked for. I'll answer every question i get with, especially on this with the upmost honesty. However, it's hard to explain this to people who haven't asked for it. Also, relationships naturally eb and flow and people often, without realizing it drift closer or further apart without giving it a second thought. This pretty much falls into that natural rhythm. Granted, part of it is probably that many NFPs rather avoid conflict, and inflicting what is perceived as unnecessary pain and creating misunderstandings by being explicit about it..that is, again, if they're at all aware of the fact that they're doing this. Most, ime, aren't.

 

[rav3n]

Hehe, yeah this ties in with my reply above. I find this to be especially true with other extraverts. It's awesome, its fun, it goes way faster and more smoothly than with introverts, but oh my god..I need a break to process all that has happened before I can go to the next stage

Admit it, you CAN'T handle us!

*wide open blast*

You know I'm teasing you. It does appear that our views align but from different perspectives. And as an enneagram 835 sx/sp, that type of dynamic will be more exaggerated, hence easier to see through observeable behaviours. With an INTJ, I'm guessing there's more of the tentative reaching out but care for fear of swamping their boundaries which also aligns with your post. But the care shown of not overswamping the other will vary per ENFP, reliant on their emotional health levels.

 

[Amargith]

Admit it, you CAN'T handle us!

*wide open blast*

Ohh hon, I'm perfectly capable of handling you lot, I just am too fond of you to damage our relationship by acting without processing

You know I'm teasing you. It does appear that our views align but from different perspectives. And as an enneagram 835 sx/sp, that type of dynamic will be more exaggerated, hence easier to see through observeable behaviours. With an INTJ, I'm guessing there's more of the tentative reaching out but care for fear of swamping their boundaries which also aligns with your post. But the care shown of not overswamping the other will vary per ENFP, reliant on their emotional health levels.

Hehe, I know. With INTJs we let them set the pace and usually that means we have plenty of time to process as they need more time than us usually
So it's less daunting

I've found that if I let ENTJs set the pace, things go to hell, no offense

 

[rav3n]

Ohh hon, I'm perfectly capable of handling you lot, I just am too fond of you to damage our relationship by acting without processing

Hehe, I know. With INTJs we let them set the pace and usually that means we have plenty of time to process as they need more time than us usually
So it's less daunting

I've found that if I let ENTJs set the pace, things go to hell, no offense

*gives Satine an NT non-hug*

Even though I'm fond of you, it won't stop this:



or this:



And then sometimes it turns into this:

uch:

So we agree again. Fi isn't the dominion of ENTJs and even though it's tert in INTJs, it's also not their dominion although there's the odd one, the more mature ones, who've really got it meshed well. A balanced and non-toxic force to be reckoned with when combined with their other functions.

 

[Amargith]

See the thing is, if we were to match the intensity you guys sometimes burst out, you find us overly dramatic and either clobber us or start avoiding us...so it's better to dance around you peeps and deflect while keeping you longing for more...

In other words..you guys dish it out, but can't take it
Granted though, we dish out serious Te-whacks at times and cannot take them either

 

[Thalassa]

Yes, absolutely they do dish it out but can't take it, and I have matched their intensity and been called dramatic or been avoided.

I've also tried dancing around them, which isn't my style.

I mean I think the good thing about NFPs is that we don't hold grudges like they do, so we're more likely to genuinely be "over it" faster and start being playful and indulgent toward them fairly quickly.

But I ain't dancin' round nobody as an MO, it seems like self-flaggellation to me.

I'd rather be with an sensing feeler with similar intensity if I have to, who will easily understand forgive and tolerate my intensity, rather than hypocritically judging it like INTJs are wont to do. That shit honestly makes me want to head for the hills.

 

[skylights]

@ OP -

what i find is that i have to limit certain things with certain people, and sometimes that becomes difficult. i echo satine's feelings about the "getting to know you stage", where things are much more open, and i am feeling the other person out. i do not yet know our incompatibilities.

as people get closer, my scrutiny also goes up. it's really quite rational - the more time we spend together, and the more i am going to trust you with my private information, the more compatible we have to be, on many levels. this does not mean type - i tend to get closest with NJs and FJs, for reasons somewhat unclear to me.

with one of my friends, i feel especially like i periodically open and withdraw in response both to her and things in my private life. she is an ESFP, very fun and open but also more interested in having people around all the time than i am. so if she starts wanting to go out every other night, or sending me 10 "what's up" messages a day, and/or if i am running into something hard or important in my life, i am more likely to withdraw from her. it's not that i don't like her, but i really just can't handle that, mentally or emotionally. i suspect that's what prevents us from getting any closer than we are, too. her interaction style is just really stressful to me when i have other things to cope with. i feel a little bad about it but i would hurt her more by acquiescing, letting stress build up, and then ending up directing it at her. so in that case withdrawing is a protective thing, really. for both of us.

whereas, take my ESFJ mom or ENFJ best friend, and things are much more steady with them. i even open up to them more when i am stressed, because they are more steady, and help me pinpoint things when i am lost in a sea of information, especially my ENFJ friend. talking with her when i am under pressure makes me feel more comfortable, more assured, more able to handle the world. the same goes for when she vents to me, we can both pour our insecurities on the other and it doesn't throw us off kilter. we also share more moral values than myself and my ESFP friend, so it's just easier to get along. i don't have to restrain myself as much.

my one other relevant quirk - in relationships, i am likely to quietly pull away when the other person displays some kind of behavior that just makes me feel weird inside. i had one boyfriend who i discovered totally freaked out sometimes while driving. like he would really panic at having to stop short, or if a car pulled in front of him. i've had anxiety issues in the past; i know maybe he had a bad experience in a car wreck (he would always weasel out of talking about it), or something like that to make him act in such a way. usually i would want to help address it. but for whatever reason in this case it was just a huge internal red flag for me. all of a sudden i started seeing more and more places in his life where inconsistent, reactive behavior like this surfaced. about a year later, after our relationship was over, he revealed to me that he is a really awful communicator when he and the other person are not in the same physical space - as in he cannot do long-distance anything - so i feel all the more assured in my decision not to pursue that relationship further. are these things even related? i don't know. it doesn't seem like it. maybe, maybe distantly. but a few of my relationships have ended like this... i escape due to feeling averse to some quirk, right before discovering something that would have imploded in my face. i don't understand it, but do thank the N gods for it.


re: NTJs - INTJs are easier than ENTJs. i have a good ENTJ family friend but she does wear me out a bit sometimes. i can't really keep up with her and we don't easily gravitate towards the same subjects when it comes to what's "important"... we like discussing new gadgets and dumb people but she is not much one for NF topics. also she is a bit more blunt in social situations than i can handle sometimes... last time we were out to eat she explained the impracticalities of her "boob shelf" with the waiter... hilarious but so, so awkward...
:blushing:

 

[Amargith]

Meh, your choice, I've found it to be adorable. I also test their limits for intensity by deliberatly going over the line, only to flake on them, and return while bantering about. It seems to break the tension and allows them to adjust to it and allows me to gauge which are hard lines which I'll respect and which ones are open to expansion...

 

[Thalassa]

well, the thing is, I don't relate to your way of "handling" people at all...it honestly looks like Fe to me, but I've told you that before

could be enneagram or something, could be more usage of Te on my part, I don't know, but I'm a very straight-forward person

 

[Amargith]

Trust me, Fe wouldn't work on them
Its foreign to them, ime. But I do dose the amount of ....Fi? I toss at their heads, as i know it spooks them
I either go for a shock effect where I dial up the intensity but keep it short, or I ease up on it and do the warm sustained bonding thing.
The first is enough to make them usually go 'wtf was that!?' but without making them run for the hills or go into attack-mode but rather seems to trigger curiosity, while the second seems to convince them (when sustained long enough) that I am in fact unarmed and come in peace

(I feel so weird describing this shit)

 

[rav3n]

Not going to dispute that...at all, Satine!

It's interesting to see your perspective and even though we're teasing each other, there's underlying truth to our discussion.

When it comes to the F dichotomy, an F-dom or aux can run rings around aux and tert F users. In someone like yourself Satine, it comes across as well-meaning and is tempered and noncoercive. From some other ENFPs, it can come across as controlling, manipulative and inauthentic. Luckily, my friends come across similar to yourself, Satine.

 

[Thalassa]

That's funny because Satine comes across to me as more manipulative and inauthentic to me than any other NFP on this forum.

It feels fake and contrived to me, like someone scratching nails down a chalk board.

 

[Amargith]

That's coz you're responding to my reigning it in. In that perspective, yes, it is not genuine, I guess. But I do that coz I don't wanna harass people with that kind of intensity. I show them a piece, if htey're interested, they can always get more

However, I am very much genuine in what I'm saying and what I believe in though.

As Jena says, I've found that running circles around them makes them feel less threathened than going straight into their personal space bubble. And I'm al for respecting that, though it does require me to filter myself. I don't like doing that, but i can see the use of it.

 

[Thalassa]

No offense, I mean I like you and everything, I like talking to you, I don't mean to be mean or anything...it's just that the way you act with NTs to me would make me feel like I was kissing their asses, even when they're acting like total pains.

I just can't do it. Maybe difference in Fi values.

I can only do that with someone I really love, like a partner or something.

 

[Amargith]

Hehe, none taken. One of my values is that people deserve to set their own boundaries and rules and get to be who they are. Since I wanna communicate with them, I adjust to that. If I were to have a full on discussion with you, you'd find that I wouldn't hold back..at all, emo-wise. It's just that I adjust my communication style depending on who's in front of me. With you I'll be more emotionally upfront, but way less direct. With NTJs I can afford to be incredibly direct, while I know I have to dial down the emo-intensity, or we'll have a misunderstanding on our hands that has no use to anyone. In both cases I'm perfectly honest, I just choose the medium which translates my message best. Maybe it's an occupational hazard as a professional translator

I prefer your style myself, but I find it impractical with non-nfps.

 

[KDude]

Yes, absolutely they do dish it out but can't take it, and I have matched their intensity and been called dramatic or been avoided.

I've also tried dancing around them, which isn't my style.

I think the dancing around bit is Ne. It seems like Fe at times, I guess, since both promote a sense of harmony in their own way. Sometimes the cost is too high to dance though, I know what you mean. I don't know why, but it seems like IFPs dance more than EFPs (lack of Te perhaps). I grew up like you myself (heavy SJ environment), which was a bit like bootcamp. I know how to stop dancing.. but I'm a little weird when I do it. I don't take any pride in it. I know what I have to do to counteract judgement from the outside, but rather than be harsh.. it's more like.. fists of love. If I have to get at someone's throat, it's still with a desperate, pleading looking on my face. And if I can find a reason to dance again, I will.

Whatever. Conflict sucks. Also, I have no idea if I'm being relevant to the thread now.

 

[Thalassa]

I think the dancing around bit is Ne. It seems like Fe at times, I guess, since both promote a sense of harmony in their own way. Sometimes the cost is too high to dance though, I know what you mean. I don't know why, but it seems like IFPs dance more than EFPs (lack of Te perhaps). I grew up like you myself (heavy SJ environment), which was a bit like bootcamp. I know how to stop dancing.. but I'm a little weird when I do it. I don't take any pride in it. I know what I have to do to counteract judgement from the outside, but rather than be harsh.. it's more like.. fists of love. If I have to get at someone's throat, it's still with a desperate, pleading looking on my face. And if I can find a reason to dance again, I will.

Whatever. Conflict sucks. Also, I have no idea if I'm being relevant to the thread now.

Well, IRL I can get along with people pretty easily because in truth I'm outwardly very flexible and can adjust, and a lot of times I'd rather just avoid drama.

But if I think someone is acting like a total self-congratulatory twat, and they're an adult, I'm not going to baby them like they're 5. It very well may be my SJ upbringing, it very well may be tertiary temptation of Te.

It may be why in some regards I can deal with SJs better than NTJs, I've actually begun to notice this with some of them, because they appear to expect submission and agreement, and I've seen a lot of stuff where the men want women to be demure or something, it frankly makes me want to puke.

I also *enjoy* debate, so there's a difference too.

I can be very submissive and agreeable with someone I love or am close to though, like a boyfriend or close friends.

 

[Thalassa]

That's coz you're responding to my reigning it in. In that perspective, yes, it is not genuine, I guess. But I do that coz I don't wanna harass people with that kind of intensity. I show them a piece, if htey're interested, they can always get more

However, I am very much genuine in what I'm saying and what I believe in though.

As Jena says, I've found that running circles around them makes them feel less threathened than going straight into their personal space bubble. And I'm al for respecting that, though it does require me to filter myself. I don't like doing that, but i can see the use of it.

I guess the difference is that you care, and I don't. When someone starts acting a certain way, and if it's not worth my investment of myself, and really, I just don't care. It may be because I have so stacking last.

 

[cascadeco]

^ (to the general turn of the conversation) I suppose we all go about it in slightly different ways, but I think everyone learns to adjust their communication/presentation depending on the audience, as they grow older. We learn that we can present things in certain ways with certain people, that it's better to approach differently with others... Satine's recent post doesn't seem that foreign to me, in other words, and yeah, Fe does rather the same thing. Adjusting depending on who you're talking to.

Although.. I do sense she goes about things very differently than I do.