[NF] An E/INFP's love.

[Lucy_Ricardo]

Most recent ex was an INFP.
Can safely say that INFPs are somewhere near ENFPs on walls, and nowhere near INTJ/INFJs.
Slightly more secretive than ENFPs, but definitely too fast (to this INTJ's mind) to let their guards down.

I always like an INTJ's perspective because my best friend is an INTJ. An INFP/INTJ relationship is one of my favorite combos.

So in my experience, INFPs are a lot more secretive and cautious than some of the commenters on here make them out to be.

I'm an INFP, and I'm a private person. I read somewhere once that private people have a way of making others think they know them when they really don't. I do this. In my relationships, others often express how close they feel to me before I'm able to reciprocate. This makes dating tough because I'm so guarded--I've been at the receiving end of some "I Love Yous" that I couldn't return, and there are few experiences more hideous than that.

But when I love someone, I love them wholly and completely, and my loyalty is unbreakable. I don't come to love someone quickly or easily because once I do, I don't stop loving.

I have family that has disappointed me time and time again, but I'll always be there for them because I love them. I have friends that sometimes irritate me and who make terrible life choices, but I'll never abandon them because I love them.

Because I love with such intensity, I can't give it away on a whim. It'd be too devastating. I doubt that that's healthy, but it's at least self-aware.

I've never been in love before because of this guardedness. I haven't decided if I regret that.

 

[Forever_Jung]

I always like an INTJ's perspective because my best friend is an INTJ. An INFP/INTJ relationship is one of my favorite combos.

So in my experience, INFPs are a lot more secretive and cautious than some of the commenters on here make them out to be.

I'm an INFP, and I'm a private person. I read somewhere once that private people have a way of making others think they know them when they really don't. I do this. In my relationships, others often express how close they feel to me before I'm able to reciprocate. This makes dating tough because I'm so guarded--I've been at the receiving end of some "I Love Yous" that I couldn't return, and there are few experiences more hideous than that.

I'm no INFP, but I agree with this sentiment. Truly private people don't merely build high walls, they convince you that you're already inside the walls. If you put up elaborate walls you're just going to make folks curious as to what you're guarding. I try to convince people there is nothing more to see. And it works, most people in my life think I am an open book.

It's like a I build elaborate movie sets that look a lot like where I live, and let people on these sets. This can be very helpful when someone unfamiliar needs to talk, and I can show them the basic idea of my own life to help them open up, without assuming any risk. But if you go in my "bedroom", you won't find the shoebox full of old letters, or my journals or anything like that. There will usually just be a bed and a few posters on the wall.

Some people languish on these crude sets for years, and imagine they know me well. Some people, usually perceptive charmer types trying to manipulate me, will point out the fake set. So then I apologize and then let them into a more sophisticated fake set, that has messy laundry scattered around by the props department, and a leaky sink, all designed to create a more immersive "real" experience, for the discerning intruder.

If I go really advanced, I might plant a fake journal with semi-accurate entries, and 'accidentally" leave it lying around to test you. And if that person reads my fake journal, I just make a note to never advance them past the fake rooms. Clearly they can't be trusted with the real thing.

As someone gets closer to me, I make the fake sets more and more realistic and detailed to see if they can be trusted. And by the time I TRULY let them in, they don't even notice, because the change was so gradual it's almost imperceptible. They thought they were already in, ages ago. But by the time you're truly in, I trust you completely, because I have been testing you for years without your knowledge, and you never failed.

I'm not saying it's healthy, I'm saying it's what I do. #e6

 

[Population: 1]

I'm no INFP, but I agree with this sentiment. Truly private people don't merely build high walls, they convince you that you're already inside the walls. If you put up elaborate walls you're just going to make folks curious as to what you're guarding. I try to convince people there is nothing more to see. And it works, most people in my life think I am an open book.

It's like a I build elaborate movie sets that look a lot like where I live, and let people on these sets. This can be very helpful when someone unfamiliar needs to talk, and I can show them the basic idea of my own life to help them open up, without assuming any risk. But if you go in my "bedroom", you won't find the shoebox full of old letters, or my journals or anything like that. There will usually just be a bed and a few posters on the wall.

Some people languish on these crude sets for years, and imagine they know me well. Some people, usually perceptive charmer types trying to manipulate me, will point out the fake set. So then I apologize and then let them into a more sophisticated fake set, that has messy laundry scattered around by the props department, and a leaky sink, all designed to create a more immersive "real" experience, for the discerning intruder.

If I go really advanced, I might plant a fake journal with semi-accurate entries, and 'accidentally" leave it lying around to test you. And if that person reads my fake journal, I just make a note to never advance them past the fake rooms. Clearly they can't be trusted with the real thing.

As someone gets closer to me, I make the fake sets more and more realistic and detailed to see if they can be trusted. And by the time I TRULY let them in, they don't even notice, because the change was so gradual it's almost imperceptible. They thought they were already in, ages ago. But by the time you're truly in, I trust you completely, because I have been testing you for years without your knowledge, and you never failed.

I'm not saying it's healthy, I'm saying it's what I do. #e6

Damn! My solution is just don’t open the gates 99.9% of the time. Or just let them in the courtyard but not the keep. That’s all a little too elaborate clandestine psy-ops for me. Fake journals?

 

[Forever_Jung]

Damn! My solution is just don’t open the gates 99.9% of the time. Or just let them in the courtyard but not the keep. That’s all a little too elaborate clandestine psy-ops for me. Fake journals?

Metaphorical fake journals. I'll trust them with secrets/thoughts that are plausible (I have always had thought/felt X about so-and-so), and see how they handle that info. I have to know how discreet they are before I can trust them with real stuff.

I mean, I didn't start off doing this sort of thing, I just got burned pretty badly a few times, and security has gotten increasingly elaborate as time has gone by.

 

[Population: 1]

Metaphorical fake journals. I'll trust them with secrets/thoughts that are plausible (I have always had thought/felt X about so-and-so), and see how they handle that info. I have to know how discreet they are before I can trust them with real stuff.

I mean, I didn't start off doing this sort of thing, I just got burned pretty badly a few times, and security has gotten increasingly elaborate as time has gone by.

Isn’t it sad that you (we) have to go through so much bs just to test another human beings integrity? Sometimes I wish people came with captions over them that said Trustworthy or Lying Dirtbag. Sure it might take some of the mystery out of life but it’d be a hell of a time and sanity saver.

 

[Lucy_Ricardo]

I'm no INFP, but I agree with this sentiment. Truly private people don't merely build high walls, they convince you that you're already inside the walls. If you put up elaborate walls you're just going to make folks curious as to what you're guarding. I try to convince people there is nothing more to see. And it works, most people in my life think I am an open book.

It's like a I build elaborate movie sets that look a lot like where I live, and let people on these sets. This can be very helpful when someone unfamiliar needs to talk, and I can show them the basic idea of my own life to help them open up, without assuming any risk. But if you go in my "bedroom", you won't find the shoebox full of old letters, or my journals or anything like that. There will usually just be a bed and a few posters on the wall.

Some people languish on these crude sets for years, and imagine they know me well. Some people, usually perceptive charmer types trying to manipulate me, will point out the fake set. So then I apologize and then let them into a more sophisticated fake set, that has messy laundry scattered around by the props department, and a leaky sink, all designed to create a more immersive "real" experience, for the discerning intruder.

If I go really advanced, I might plant a fake journal with semi-accurate entries, and 'accidentally" leave it lying around to test you. And if that person reads my fake journal, I just make a note to never advance them past the fake rooms. Clearly they can't be trusted with the real thing.

As someone gets closer to me, I make the fake sets more and more realistic and detailed to see if they can be trusted. And by the time I TRULY let them in, they don't even notice, because the change was so gradual it's almost imperceptible. They thought they were already in, ages ago. But by the time you're truly in, I trust you completely, because I have been testing you for years without your knowledge, and you never failed.

I'm not saying it's healthy, I'm saying it's what I do. #e6

THAT IS INTENSE, but relatable. The facade of private people can be basic or intricate, but its purpose is always the same: to vet the worthiness of others to have access to the vault.

It's like the Water Temple in Ocarina of Time: there are optical illusions and changing water levels and obstacles guarded by phantoms, and just when you think you've reached the end, there is yet ANOTHER key and ANOTHER room.

 

[Lucy_Ricardo]

Isn’t it sad that you (we) have to go through so much bs just to test another human beings integrity? Sometimes I wish people came with captions over them that said Trustworthy or Lying Dirtbag. Sure it might take some of the mystery out of life but it’d be a hell of a time and sanity saver.

^^^RETWEET. They say a cynic is a broken-hearted idealist, and that's the truth--the guardedness comes from being continually disappointed by others, in one way or another. Name tags or signs would definitely save us a lot of trouble.

 

[Dreamer]

I've found that people tend to reflect back what you give them. Not in the Fe mirroring or any other reference typically seen on this site, but simply that if you reveal an honesty about yourself, remove the sorts of BS judgements that exist floating around in the world, and approach people without overwhelming bias, then some of the most difficult people imaginable may just reveal a bit of themselves to you as well. Perhaps not much, but it may be far more than they're willing to give anyone else.

I realize the above sounds wayyy over the top in idealism, but my words do have some backing, at least in my experiences with people. How else does one tend to befriend two different people on seemingly polar opposites of one another of social circles? Difficult people are in part difficult because they are given shit to begin with, it causes them to put up their fighting gloves (Not in every case, certainly)

I say the above in relation to the topic in more general, relational terms in dealing with people, but romantic relationships, love, it applies here too. I have walls up, sure, I probably reveal myself quicker than many would, but what you don't get, unless you've broken into that inner circle of friends where it feels safe for me, is that passion and excitement that I only really feel comfortable sharing with those I trust. Believe it or not, people ragged on me about that growing up, as with many other qualities I keep hidden until I get to know you, so away they went.

Emotions and feelings are one thing, I don't feel too protective over those so much since they aren't too much a source of weakness for me as they once were, but if you want Enthusiastic Dreamer to come out, I reserve that for the select few poor souls of the world muahaha

 

[Starry]

I'm not sure I fully understand the responses in this thread. To me this isn't even remotely about getting another person to reveal themselves to me. I don't understand this notion of tick marks. "He has revealed something to me so now I know it is safe for me to do the same in equal amounts" <-That's not how I operate at my best or how I wish to operate at some point in the future...this linear...step by step...no. My brain doesn't work like that.


I would like to figure out how to stop involuntarily creating hurdles and obstacles in an effort to keep others as far away from my true heart as I can. Or maybe I don't. Perhaps I want to continue to leave out fake hearts on my fake set idk. But love is not a transaction to me...and perhaps that is precisely the problem.

 

[Dreamer]

I'm not sure I fully understand the responses in this thread. To me this isn't even remotely about getting another person to reveal themselves to me. I don't understand this notion of tick marks. "He has revealed something to me so now I know it is safe for me to do the same in equal amounts" <-That's not how I operate at my best or how I wish to operate at some point in the future...this linear...step by step...no. My brain doesn't work like that. I would like to figure out how to stop involuntarily creating hurdles and obstacles in an effort to keep others as far away from my true heart as I can. Or maybe I don't. Perhaps I want to continue to leave out fake hearts on my fake set idk. But love is not a transaction to me...and perhaps that is precisely the problem.

I feel like what ends up happening a lot of times when I'm posting about my internal processes here or anywhere text is involved, I'm nowhere near this eloquent in spoken word haha, but I tend to construct this sort of order and categorization to things, AS it's coming out of my mouth, or...fingers. There is something about getting those processes out of my confangled head that allows me to make sense of what's really going on internally. But not to worry Starry, my process is nowhere near as linear as I make it seem. Much of what I might describe on the forum is not actually some active thought process but it just...does. Does that make any sense? So like I speak of having this inner circle of friends and it's less that I keep a friends list all organized and stuff, and more of feeling a certain safety with someone and I can't say when or if I'll get there with someone, but I feel it when I'm there, and that's when I open up.

So eh, I don't know, I don't think you're missing something.

 

[Starry]

I feel like what ends up happening a lot of times when I'm posting about my internal processes here or anywhere text is involved, I'm nowhere near this eloquent in spoken word haha, but I tend to construct this sort of order and categorization to things, AS it's coming out of my mouth, or...fingers. There is something about getting those processes out of my confangled head that allows me to make sense of what's really going on internally. But not to worry Starry, my process is nowhere near as linear as I make it seem. Much of what I might describe on the forum is not actually some active thought process but it just...does. Does that make any sense? So like I speak of having this inner circle of friends and it's less that I keep a friends list all organized and stuff, and more of feeling a certain safety with someone and I can't say when or if I'll get there with someone, but I feel it when I'm there, and that's when I open up.

So eh, I don't know, I don't think you're missing something.

You aren't the only person in this thread to say the same thing. And to be certain I don't mention the processes as any type of specific commentary on *you*...I mention them because it scares me...I feel that is how it is done in this world...and I can't do it. So it makes me feel like this is a game I will never be able to play.

 

[Amargith]

For me, it is about being on the same page.

Its not so much an emotional powerchess game as it is a dance.

You want to be in sync in order to progress together. Much heartbreak stems from running away with ones feelings without taking the time to check in with each other and *actually* doing this together. This often inadvertently leads to pedestallibg, creating adulation instead of emotional closeness and connection.

With my intj, i did install a quid pro quo to balance out his natural hoarding tendencies when it comes to knowledge as well as his more secretive nature vs my more heart on sleeve approach.

With other types, i might hold back my own pace of revealing and buffer for their tendency to show, rather than tell (istps, for example).

The idea is to discover each other together and to respond to each other. Just like you d expect someone to kiss you back before you move on to sex, i want my partner to respond to each new level of intimacy, before i move to an even more intimate level. This in turn paces my feelings and expectations regarding the relationship (as well as theirs) allowing for a natural organic way of falling in love while allowing for plenty of time to actually build that love on a strong foundation, ime.

 

[Starry]

For me, it is about being on the same page.

Its not so much an emotional powerchess game as it is a dance.

You want to be in sync in order to progress together. Much heartbreak stems from running away with ones feelings without taking the time to check in with each other and *actually* doing this together. This often inadvertently leads to pedestallibg, creating adulation instead of emotional closeness and connection.

With my intj, i did install a quid pro quo to balance out his natural hoarding tendencies when it comes to knowledge as well as his more secretive nature vs my more heart on sleeve approach.

With other types, i might hold back my own pace of revealing and buffer for their tendency to show, rather than tell (istps, for example).

The idea is to discover each other together and to respond to each other. Just like you d expect someone to kiss you back before you move on to sex, i want my partner to respond to each new level of intimacy, before i move to an even more intimate level. This in turn paces my feelings and expectations regarding the relationship (as well as theirs) allowing for a natural organic way of falling in love while allowing for plenty of time to actually build that love on a strong foundation, ime.

I'll have to come back to this as soon as I can...but for me this ties into that description I just asked you about...remember?

*edit...whoops that other description...maybe socionics? (what is in the OP is like that other description)

 

[Amargith]

I'll have to come back to this as soon as I can...but for me this ties into that description I just asked you about...remember?

If you mean your last post, sorry, i didnt see it before i posted this.

It’s not something i experience as a tranaction, though.

In fact, ive done the falling in love from afar/unrequited love thing, which was a lot more like having my appreciation of a person take on romantic features for me, ive done the ‘being hunted and swept off my feet lust’ thing, which was exhilirating and intoxicating and ultimately crushing and ive done the ‘soulmate’ dance thing i described above.

While i certainly am pro having all three present, id never build a long term relationship with someone without the latter.

To me, the isolation of my own intoxicating emotions in a vaccuum is..well incomplete. They go through the same thing, if all goes well. And sure, you can dance alone znd let the music move you in an authentic spontaneous way. But relationships go beyond that. Its two people expressing themselves in that way. And it becomes truly magical when you use the expression of that music to actually communicate and sync up in a wzy that pretty much lets you step where he steps and vice versa. Its a natural rhythm that just...establishes a bond of shared intimacy that becomes the foundation to your ability to communicate as a couple.

It’s not a transaction to me - its a conversation where you listen and share with each other and naturally mirror the ways in which your partner likes to express themselves and vice versa. In essence, it creates your own private biorhythm and language, ime.

...not sure i answered your question but its my best shot atm.

 

[Starry]

"An E/INFP's love is hard to obtain. They may seem friendly and warm (or maybe even distanced, but friendly) in the beginning, but that is no different to how they treat everyone else.

The truth is, is that they quickly build a wall, in which you have to strategically, and slowly, knock down. The more you make this wall crumble, the more they will trust you, and the more they will open up.. But this takes time.

They will be slow to 'get personal', especially with details that they wouldn't necessarily share with anyone else. They will want to be close, but feel very unsure, wary of future hurt, or fallouts.

As time progresses, the more you share with them, and the more they feel safe with sharing with you, the closer they will become and feel.

Eventually their wall will be gone, and their wariness is eased. They'll be comfortable with you, they will feel confident in confiding in you. They will want to be close to you. They will want to care for you. They will feel warmth when they are with you.

Soon, they can love you, if they don't already do."

Challengers/Trophies: INFp, ENFj

These are the types who unconsciously throw a "gauntlet" down for their opponents. They know on an almost subliminal level exactly who they are looking for, and anyone who does not fit the bill will be subjected to a rather flakey, hot-cold game of courting tag. As a result, they may appear (both to others and to themselves) rather amorphous and can take on qualities of the other romantic attitudes, depending on the situation and who they are "challenging."

They may, for example, give the victim half his aggressor, the psuedo-aggressor a little victim, the caregiver a bit of his child, etc. They react best, however, to those who do not "break" as a result of their games, but grant them a level of autonomy. Healthy examples of this type will have a sense of self-esteem, and may think of themselves as the "prize" that will be given only to the rightful owner.

^^Here's what I'm talking about. I realize the above is correlated with NFJ? in whatever that is...but I don't give a crap...that is NFP.

 

[Population: 1]

You aren't the only person in this thread to say the same thing. And to be certain I don't mention the processes as any type of specific commentary on *you*...I mention them because it scares me...I feel that is how it is done in this world...and I can't do it. So it makes me feel like this is a game I will never be able to play.

Don’t despair Starry! I hate the analogy of comparing romantic relationships to a game so I don’t think of it as one. It’s never a game when you’re talking about strong emotions being involved. Some may treat it as such but I think that’s half the reason so many relationships are doomed from the start.

Look at dating. You’re supposedly supposed to ‘be yourself’ but so many times I hear people telling me and others to play the game and accentuate aspects of yourself or tone other ones down or and this is the worst- completely feign an aspect you don’t even possess.

Anyway, it should never be treated as a game. People get hurt. People can be irreparably damaged by certain actions. This isn’t monopoly. Serious consequences are the reason we have walls to begin with.

 

[Starry]

Don’t despair Starry! I hate the analogy of comparing romantic relationships to a game so I don’t think of it as one. It’s never a game when you’re talking about strong emotions being involved. Some may treat it as such but I think that’s half the reason so many relationships are doomed from the start.

Look at dating. You’re supposedly supposed to ‘be yourself’ but so many times I hear people telling me and others to play the game and accentuate aspects of yourself or tone other ones down or and this is the worst- completely feign an aspect you don’t even possess.

Anyway, it should never be treated as a game. People get hurt. People can be irreparably damaged by certain actions. This isn’t monopoly. Serious consequences are the reason we have walls to begin with.

That's my concern though. I think I'm playing an alternative game (building walls and obstacles)... when I'm not resigned to my castle.

(I still have a bit of that cold sweat sickness so I am not sure I'm making sense.)

 

[Population: 1]

That's my concern though. I think I'm playing an alternative game (building walls and obstacles)... when I'm not resigned to my castle.

What if we changed metaphors? A secluded grove of oaks instead of a stone fortress? A Shaolin temple high in the mountains? A mist enshrouded island named Avalon?

Damn, now I want to travel!

(Don’t worry you’re making sense. The question is am I?)

 

[Starry]

What if we changed metaphors? A secluded grove of oaks instead of a stone fortress? A Shaolin temple high in the mountains? A mist enshrouded island named Avalon?

Damn, now I want to travel!

(Don’t worry you’re making sense. The question is am I?)

Out of everyone in here what you have written (along with what was written in the OP) has made the most sense...followed by F_Js comments but you and I are older and don’t really have the energy for as many fake props anymore We are in or out of our castles I imagine

Whoops OAs comments too from a few years ago

 

[Population: 1]

Out of everyone in here what you have written (along with what was written in the OP) has made the most sense...followed by F_Js comments but you and I are older and don’t really have the energy for as many fake props anymore We are in or out of our castles I imagine

So in other words- I’m getting too old for this shit!