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[MBTI General] ENFP vs. ENTP

zarc

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Feb 1, 2008
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2,629
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Zzzz
i was being sarcastic

CC was likely playing along lol

my apologies for being unclear about this... i was giving my input on the matter, not arguing against giving someone practical aid. i often quote the sentence that got me thinking about something, that's where my ideas tie into the discussion.

You remind me of my ISTP best/f. I used to constantly need to confirm where she was coming from as she'd be unclear or begin a new topic of discussion without warning while we were discussing someone or something else. Or she won't clarify or give reference but expect me to know what she means.

Even though I *knew* and still *know* where she was coming from or that she just borrowed from something which got her t(h)inking or what she means, I sometimes remind her "Clarify!" But mostly I don't bother because I know how she flows and as long as I can follow along, it's good. She's learned to be more clear with me too. But I'll remind her with others or I'll inform others when they looked puzzled. LOL She's so much fun though! Esp. when she breaks social norms or doesn't care how crass she is or insensitive when she questions something or someone... :wubbie: though defending or explaining for her or TO her can be a pain :doh:

I dread the "Why?" which she mostly uses to tease me...and then I tease her with "Because." "Why?" and then I (teasingly) go into a long droning which she'll then tell me to "STFU, I get it! I know!" :devil:
 

Grayscale

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ISTP
Oh okay, I understand then. What about an ISTP who needs perspective but won't take it, how would you recommend handling that person? Serious question.

if someone wont listen to perspective, they'll have to fail to get it.
 

CzeCze

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I think there's a lot to be said for NT detachment. ENTP's I think can really highlight what this means because on the surface, ENTPs and ENFPs can both seem very sociable, gregarious, and 'nice'.

But, NFs are more ego attached and place more importance on their own feelings and the feelings of others and pretty much embody an ocean of feeling. ENTP may consider everyone's feelings, but it's more strategic or analytical and not necessarily empathising. So the analyses of the same situation and their involvement can be VERY different.

As far as the comment that ENFPs can be crude and mean in their arguments (I disagree) and ENTPs present ideas in a charming way, I think detachment and misinterpreting people's intentions may come into play.

It's REALLY easy to be charming and sociable consistently when presenting an idea because you don't really care either way about it nor really invested in the people and easy to seem vicious when you are personally heart invested in something.

This is not a dig at ENTP but in general, I don't take too many pitches very seriously. Everyone has their own agenda and just because someone is polite or charming doesn't mean they give a fpersonal fuck about you, if anything, they are just good at what they do and more concerned about getting their point across, making the sale, convincing people they're awesome, caught up in enthusiasm, what have you.

Maybe it's because of the fields I'm naturally drawn to - entertainment, politics, sales, etc. -- but seriously, don't take what you see on the surface too seriously.

But generally to get to the real substance and the heart of the matter sometimes you just can't package that nicely or be slick about it. I think this is where the cries of NT callousness and jerky behavior and NF hysterical blood-letting come in.

Maybe ENFP moreso than ENTP is ready and able to get "down and dirty" with things because we see that as a necessary part of life and a given when you care deeply about things. I think for many NTs either that seems crude or unecessary. They prefer the strategic detachment thing or else they are capable of being ruthless but simply don't see it as beingn ruthless. They place place no negative value on the emotional fallout or hurt they may cause because they're looking at it from a totally other angle (their own) and everything else is secondary or inevitable.

I think it's true though that if an ENFP is being extremely cutting, it IS intentional and they ARE aware of it. However, what you intepret as viciousness may very well just be an ENFP getting very enthusiastic about something in our own way and we aren't intentionally trying to hurt someone or being personal. I guess you'd have to ask the ENFP. I've said this elsewhere but ENFPs can launch brutal personal attacks but we won't because that's generally totally against our values.
 
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disregard

mrs
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Apr 23, 2007
Messages
7,826
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INFP
I think there's a lot to be said for NT detachment. ENTP's I think can really highlight what this means because on the surface, ENTPs and ENFPs can both seem very sociable, gregarious, and 'nice'.

But, NFs are more ego attached and place more importance on their own feelings and the feelings of others and pretty much embody an ocean of feeling. ENTP may consider everyone's feelings, but it's more strategic or analytical and not necessarily empathising. So the analyses of the same situation and their involvement can be VERY different.

As far as the comment that ENFPs can be crude and mean in their arguments (I disagree) and ENTPs present ideas in a charming way, I think detachment and misinterpreting people's intentions may come into play.

It's REALLY easy to be charming and sociable consistently when presenting an idea because you don't really care either way about it nor really invested in the people and easy to seem vicious when you are personally heart invested in something.

This is not a dig at ENTP but in general, I don't take too many pitches very seriously. Everyone has their own agenda and just because someone is polite or charming doesn't mean they give a fpersonal fuck about you, if anything, they are just good at what they do and more concerned about getting their point across, making the sale, convincing people they're awesome, caught up in enthusiasm, what have you.

Maybe it's because of the fields I'm naturally drawn to - entertainment, politics, sales, etc. -- but seriously, don't take what you see on the surface too seriously.

But generally to get to the real substance and the heart of the matter sometimes you just can't package that nicely or be slick about it. I think this is where the cries of NT callousness and jerky behavior and NF hysterical blood-letting come in.

Maybe ENFP moreso than ENTP is ready and able to get "down and dirty" with things because we see that as a necessary part of life and a given when you care deeply about things. I think for many NTs either that seems crude or unecessary. They prefer the strategic detachment thing or else they are capable of being ruthless but simply don't see it as beingn ruthless. They place place no negative value on the emotional fallout or hurt they may cause because they're looking at it from a totally other angle (their own) and everything else is secondary or inevitable.

I think it's true though that if an ENFP is being extremely cutting, it IS intentional and they ARE aware of it.
However, what you intepret as viciousness may very well just be an ENFP getting very enthusiastic about something in our own way and we aren't intentionally trying to hurt someone or being personal. I guess you'd have to ask the ENFP. I've said this elsewhere but ENFPs can launch brutal personal attacks but we won't because that's generally totally against our values.

Very nice points.
 

alcea rosea

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Nov 11, 2007
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ENFP vs. ENTP

NF and NT temperaments.
There is quite huge difference in there.
 

pinkchandelier

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May 22, 2008
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ENFP
I'm an ENFP with an ENTP best friend, and we always joke that our dynamic is exactly like julie andrews (me) and carol burnett (her) when they used to perform together at Carnegie Hall.
 

Thursday

Earth Exalted
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Mar 14, 2008
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ENTJ
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sp/sx
ENFP = Sarah Silverman
ENTP = Eminem
 

CzeCze

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Oh gawd, two celebs I dislike for similar reasons.

Some people think Ani Difranco is an ENFP.

Dr. Who (all...11 of them?) is a good ENTP...
 

alcea rosea

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ENFP vs ENTP

Ne definitely is common for both of them. So their behavior can be very similar. But ENFP's are people oriented and ENTP's are not that much. I mean they both love to interact with people but their interests are different. I would say also that ENFP's are better in understading what other people are feeling whereas ENTP's are better in objective thinking.
 

animenagai

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Aug 22, 2008
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NeFi
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BUMP! sorry for this somewhat obnoxious action of bumpage but i completely agree with what captain chick has said and a lot of you who argue against her really don't know ENFP's very well at all. tactless and cruel? ENFP's are not cruel. we have that F function that tells us ti get along with everyone. NF together make us theorize and think a lot about morality itself. i am also big on sincerity like what CC said herself and it's no coincidence. for an ENFP to be cruel, you really need to have crossed the line. go search up ENFP's on mypersonality.info. you'll find that being warm is a common characteristic amongst us.
 

CzeCze

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Yeah, funny enough we're supposed to be at least present in the population, if not common. Maybe we all spend so much time wanderng around hiding behind our masks so that we can pass by one of our own kind without any bleep of recognition on our radars... :(

Sadly I think this may be part of it. Also, I think the personality trajectory of ENFP depends *a lot* on maturity level, life experience, and the weighting of the functions. And a big difference between a strong 'E' (more stereotypical ENFP) and a moderate or weak 'E' makes a pronounced difference in ENXP.

I'm not really sure how easily an ENFP would recognize another ENFP IRL. I've recognized an ENTP IRL before, but that's about it.
 

Little Linguist

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sx/so
Sadly I think this may be part of it. Also, I think the personality trajectory of ENFP depends *a lot* on maturity level, life experience, and the weighting of the functions. And a big difference between a strong 'E' (more stereotypical ENFP) and a moderate or weak 'E' makes a pronounced difference in ENXP.

I'm not really sure how easily an ENFP would recognize another ENFP IRL. I've recognized an ENTP IRL before, but that's about it.

Agreed. This is coming from a person who has a weak E, N, F, and P. Meaning, I do not exhibit the 'normal' ENFP traits, necessarily.

I have phases. Sometimes I am like a stereotypical ENFP, especially when I am excited about an idea. Othertimes, I am totally not. Guess that happens with people with relatively balanced functions. Anyone else have a similar experience? :huh:
 

Venom

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BUMP! sorry for this somewhat obnoxious action of bumpage but i completely agree with what captain chick has said and a lot of you who argue against her really don't know ENFP's very well at all. tactless and cruel? ENFP's are not cruel. we have that F function that tells us ti get along with everyone. NF together make us theorize and think a lot about morality itself. i am also big on sincerity like what CC said herself and it's no coincidence. for an ENFP to be cruel, you really need to have crossed the line. go search up ENFP's on mypersonality.info. you'll find that being warm is a common characteristic amongst us.

you've obviously never experienced an ENFP in juggernaut mode :devil: (tertiary Te)
 

Dom

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you've obviously never experienced an ENFP in juggernaut mode :devil: (tertiary Te)

But to describe ENFPs as essentiall cruel is a very very very serious misjudgement. ENFPs in health cases are not cruel as a personality trait. An individual would almost certainly be either misintrepreting the ENFPs actions/words/intentions or have seriously hurt/annoyed/attacked the said ENFP before cruelness would start.

I have been cruel to people but never intentionally, except when I percieved cruelty leveled at me.

ENFPs have switches.

We have a silly switch which when thrown will send us into a crazy gaga land of jokes, stunts, and general messing about.

On a more serious note we have a defence/gone to far/time to act switch and it is a switch. We allow ourselves to be moulded into a situation or we'll bend on our principals/values to try to make situations work or improve. Eventually, once we see that this compromise isn't being recipricated or appreciated we switch back into being entirely ourselves. This is why ENFPS can suddenly snap and spontaneously take action to correct a situation; cut off a costly friendship/leave a partner/quit their job. These actions come seemingly out of the blue, not by design on the ENFPs part, but because the enfp had bent so out of shape the partner/friend/employer had failed to realise the danger they were facing.

This is not a straight up hiding of disconnent on the ENFPs part. The ENFP will feel that they have made their discomfort obvious. I conceed that sometimes we have huge problems tactling a serious problem head on but we don't do things out of the blue. If it seems otu of the blue, then you probably stopped paying attention to WHO the ENFP was/is and assumed that they really are happy letting you have everything your way.

My advice to anyone dealing with ENFPs is to try to keep the communication, in whatever form it takes, as qualitative as possible. Take an ENFP for granted for long enough and they will seemingly bite back.
 

arcticangel02

To the top of the world
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Oct 5, 2007
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This is not a straight up hiding of disconnent on the ENFPs part. The ENFP will feel that they have made their discomfort obvious. I conceed that sometimes we have huge problems tactling a serious problem head on but we don't do things out of the blue. If it seems otu of the blue, then you probably stopped paying attention to WHO the ENFP was/is and assumed that they really are happy letting you have everything your way.

Very true. From an ENFPs perspective, it seems like we've given in continuously... we've bent, we've accommodated, and finally we just can't do it anymore, so one day we just snap back. We've given them so many chances, and finally they've just used all their credit up.

To the other person, though, it can come as quite a surprise, because we aren't often very communicative about how much we feel like we're giving in.

I really need to work on communicating more clearly and directly in certain situations.
 

Dom

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Very true. From an ENFPs perspective, it seems like we've given in continuously... we've bent, we've accommodated, and finally we just can't do it anymore, so one day we just snap back. We've given them so many chances, and finally they've just used all their credit up.

To the other person, though, it can come as quite a surprise, because we aren't often very communicative about how much we feel like we're giving in.

I really need to work on communicating more clearly and directly in certain situations.

Yeah it's really hard sometimes but we ENFPs have to get better at this, I hate the look of total supprise on the other persons face, makes me feel even more guilty for having finally asserted myself.

This is the problem I think, or part of it, we bend and then we feel guilty or bad about mentioning it, but if we don't there is the risk of being pushed even further to that SNAP point.

Much rather avoid shocking them and the extra guilt by trying to be clearer, but then sometimes we're nto totally aware of how bent out of shape we've become, the old frog in a pot of hot water thing...
 

Martian Manifesto

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Aug 21, 2008
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I think this is really wrong. Playing with tertiary functions is a dangerous game my friend. ENFP's are nothing if not charming and subtly manipulative, and I think the assertion that we are "cold and calculating" is borderline insane. ENFP's are warm and emotionally gushy, more so than ENTP's. You should note that feeling is our secondary function while it is tertiary in the ENTP. I agree that we will express Ne ideas forcefully according to our values, but I'm not sure that we use these abilities to dream up sadistic torture methods; we are more likely to use this ability to understand the people around us and try to make others understand as well.

Yeah, that guy was way off. I know ENFPs and ENTPs. Both are quirky. ENTPs are more emotional and "fuzzy" than ENTPs. The ENTPs I know are more "bracing" and logical.
 
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