[INFJ] The dreaded INFJ delayed reaction - a ticking time-bomb

[SilkRoad]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with the long processing time, you're so right about that.

Reading over your last post though, I wonder about closure. I mean, I always want it badly, but it's rarely ever possible. What do you think? Do you need it to move on? Does it speed up the time line? How much does this relate to personality type if at all?

No, there's nothing wrong with the long processing time...but it can be so difficult to deal with!

There was one situation where I didn't get closure for three years. When I got it finally, I moved on completely. (Before that, I was having recurring dreams about the person, at least once every few months...) I have a feeling I would have moved on completely eventually...because I have later faced worse emotional situations, and eventually I moved on completely. But it took a horrifically long time. Years and years. Not that it was consuming every day and every hour for all that time, but it was always around, always troubling me on some level. Sometimes all I need is a chance to talk things over with the person, a simple acknowledgement from them that they hurt me and an apology, then I'm completely over it. But no, obviously, you can't always get even that...often you can't even get that. It just makes everything way longer and more difficult and maybe there will always be a tiny part of you that's not really over it. At least, that's my take on it.

I would tend to think this is a very INFJ reaction (unfortunately!). Not that I'm saying you could never find it in other types. I think it's possible for any type to take a long time to get over things, or to keep thinking of more things to be upset about, or whatever. But with our tendency to overthink things, and to internalize things, and a J desire for closure - yeah, it seems very INFJ.

 

[Fidelia]

Closure does wonders for me getting over things more quickly, but I rarely can count on it happening. I think the end of a romantic relationship doesn't bother me so much as having a bunch of loose ends that have never been dealt with or strange unanswered questions. Without closure, it takes me a lot more time to process things because there are so many possibilities for why a person acted as they did and no way to definitively know or have some insight into their thinking. It takes awhile for me to just give up and really accept that I never will know. Even if my life isn't ruined every day by the thing that is left without closure, it does niggle away at my subconscious (shows up in dreams) and pops into my conscious thought from time to time as well, lessening as more time passes.

 

[SilkRoad]

Closure does wonders for me getting over things more quickly, but I rarely can count on it happening. I think the end of a romantic relationship doesn't bother me so much as having a bunch of loose ends that have never been dealt with or strange unanswered questions. Without closure, it takes me a lot more time to process things because there are so many possibilities for why a person acted as they did and no way to definitively know or have some insight into their thinking. It takes awhile for me to just give up and really accept that I never will know. Even if my life isn't ruined every day by the thing that is left without closure, it does niggle away at my subconscious (shows up in dreams) and pops into my conscious thought from time to time as well, lessening as more time passes.

The dream thing can be frightening! I find it particularly so when you really, really think that the unfinished business is pretty much finished. You've done with this person/situation, it's behind you or 99%, you've moved on. Then you dream about them, and especially in some way that clearly, clearly shows you want closure. I find that truly alarming. It's maybe just as well that I don't remember my dreams as much as used to, say when I was 20 - that was when I had recurring dreams about someone I had unfinished business with, for years!

 

[Soar337]

I get this too.................................

 

[Dali]

Ah yes, I've observed this.

e.g. A couple of years ago, a close INFJ pal suspected that her fiance was cheating on her. She had a hunch that something was off and she sat him down one day and told him "I know everything. I know everything but I want to hear it from you". Dude then spent the next three hours apologising and telling her, in detail, about his affair with another woman who was now carrying his child. She listened with that unique brand of INFJ calm (she was in shock on the inside) and then told him to clear off for two weeks while she thought things over. Those two weeks is when she sorted through her feelings and decided what to do (doorslam him).

 

[wolfy]

I tend to do this myself in really hot situations. I'll often think through the situation and timing and come back to it. I think the reasoning is I don't want to get trapped in my own emotional reaction. It is better to back off and think and look for the best angle. I don't always do it, but it works best.

It sounds like people were saying it as if it was a weakness. I see it as a strength.

 

[InvisibleJim]

I would tend to think this is a very INFJ reaction (unfortunately!). Not that I'm saying you could never find it in other types. I think it's possible for any type to take a long time to get over things, or to keep thinking of more things to be upset about, or whatever. But with our tendency to overthink things, and to internalize things, and a J desire for closure - yeah, it seems very INFJ.

Don't worry, it's probably just the Pi with a Je need to settle the external environment to allow internal certainty. It happens to me surprisingly frequently.

 

[cascadeco]

Don't worry, it's probably just the Pi with a Je need to settle the external environment to allow internal certainty. It happens to me surprisingly frequently.

Yes, I agree... I think all IxxJ types would be especially susceptible to this. I find IJ/IP/EJ/EP categories really similar when it comes to certain things - moreso than the NF/NT/etc etc.

 

[SilkRoad]

Yes, I agree... I think all IxxJ types would be especially susceptible to this. I find IJ/IP/EJ/EP categories really similar when it comes to certain things - moreso than the NF/NT/etc etc.

Me too! In fact - although obviously this is controversial/subject to debate/a subject for another thread - the phrase "IxxJ is IxxJ and ExxP is ExxP, and never the twain shall meet" has gone through my head on more than one occasion.

 

[Elfboy]

it's not just ticking time bomb responses that are delayed, pretty much everything INFJs say is delayed. I find talking to my dad almost impossible for this reason. Ne is like "boom boom boom! connection! idea! connection!" while Ni + Fe is like "hmmm........ (12 hours - several years later) AHHHHH!!!!!", and then it expects you to wait patiently for those 12 hours while they formulate a response. I suppose it's unfair of me to single out INFJs though. one of the reasons I stay on forums so much is because I get so annoyed with people's perpetual inability to communicate in real time. I mean, there is a time for pauses and rushed responses are something to be avoided, but somewhere in the middle is where good conversation lies. is this expecting too much of people or am I just not around people who are conversationally adept?

 

[Tiltyred]

I dunno, I have to think about it.

 

[mochajava]

I dunno, I have to think about it.

Hahahahahaha! Rock on, Tilty

 

[KDude]

Yeah, I experience this often.. Although I could see this being more INFJ.. Maybe another element of those "aha!" like moments, where the negative ramifications of something dawns on you later. Then you're like "UGH!!!"

 

[Z Buck McFate]

It can take years to process things, even an offhand remark. I don't like my delayed time-bomb effect much, but at least when I finally get mad, I have damn good reason for it and my argument is ironclad (should I ever get around to voicing it).

So true. Silkroad, when you opened this thread by saying it took you a day or two to process and know your reaction to something, I was downright jealous. To this INFJ, that looks like lightning speed! For me, things take MONTHS. It took me a month to realize I was deeply hurt by something my sister did, and two more months to pinpoint it to the cause!

So know that you're not alone in delayed processing time, and that yours is actually pretty fast from where I stand.

+1 It takes me a ridiculously, ridiculously long time to realize when something has deeply hurt my feelings.

I used to have a huge problem with delayed reactions. I tell people I need time to respond now and it seems to help me feel more free to feel what I'm going to sooner. I would regularly feel numb in the moment after a shock, especially if someone is demanding a definitive reaction from me at that moment. And then it would hit me a few days later. Bleh.

I think it's due to a few factors. I like being composed externally but that is never how I feel inside if something bad has happened. I like harmony and it used to push me to make up quickly, often before I was really ready or it was good for the relationship. (Better with that now). And there are always factors to weigh up before I have my appropriate, reasoned out emotional response, so I automatically repress in the moment. I also usually regret those times I have snapped about something, it makes me feel terrible later so that has discouraged spontaneous emotional reactions.

I still have a problem if it's the kind of shock that could end a relationship. I might get a six month delay on something like that. :/ Then it hits me and I feel how I feel and nothing is going to change it even if I want it to be different. I think I have only worked through one of those delayed reactions to the benefit of the person I was with.

I don’t know how many times- when it finally hits me- I couldn’t believe something wasn’t clear to me sooner, in regard to whether or not I can accept certain behaviors from other people. I’ll initially put up with something when I find out about it, believe I’ve made a decision to forgive it (for the sake of harmony)- only to figure out later that it really isn’t acceptable to me. I’ve gotten a lot better myself about committing to having forgiven things, because I hate going back on it once I’ve said something is okay.

Ironically, one of the very few things that makes me angry immediately is when someone tries coercing me into feeling something sooner than I am able to feel it (when someone demands a definitive reaction). Whether it’s done intentionally or not- if someone tries making it look like a deficiency on my part (in order to speed me up), tries guilting me into speeding the process up or manipulates me in any way- it’s instantly unacceptable behavior to me. That might be about repetition, though. I’m much quicker to realize I’m angry or hurt by things that resemble emotional shocks I've already had to process from other past experiences.

 

[violaine]

Ironically, one of the very few things that makes me angry immediately is when someone tries coercing me into feeling something sooner than I am able to feel it (when someone demands a definitive reaction). Whether it’s done intentionally or not- if someone tries making it look like a deficiency on my part (in order to speed me up), tries guilting me into speeding the process up or manipulates me in any way- it’s instantly unacceptable behavior to me. That might be about repetition, though. I’m much quicker to realize I’m angry or hurt by things that resemble emotional shocks I've already had to process from other past experiences.

I'm exactly the same, especially with regard to the bolded. If someone is coming after me to nail me down about what I think/feel before I'm ready, especially if I have told them how I work (and I tell anyone I'm close to how I work) or if I have asked for time out and they don't give it to me, I become livid. It's a very alien kind of anger that comes out of nowhere. It feels extremely unfair to me, like a kind of harassment, when someone doesn't give me time to process my thoughts and formulate my response to something important.

Further to that, I suspect I need this processing time because I'm trying to be fair to everyone involved while trying to make the right decision the first time around. I don't like being unfair and I never weight my feelings more heavily than those of someone I care about (or anyone else, really). I wish I did. :/

 

[cascadeco]

+1 It takes me a ridiculously, ridiculously long time to realize when something has deeply hurt my feelings.

You know, I think this is kind of off-topic but I'll mention it anyway because it's related to not knowing how I feel sometimes until I look back in retrospect.

I can think of two examples, and both tie to me being out of my comfort zone and being more in 'survival mode', and/or me having uncertainties while in it.

The first example was when I spent 3 weeks living with a family in Peru a few years ago, without knowing the language and thus not able to communicate, really. Because I really had no choice but to get as much as I could out of the situation, for those three weeks I decided to just roll with it and ignore/push back any more negative feelings - because those weren't going to help me out in the situation. So for those 3 weeks, while experiencing the 3 weeks, I really did think things were ok and I was doing ok. And, you know, I was - my discomfort aside. But man - once I was away, and realized I was relieved to be away, it occurred to me that I had been stressed, that I really didn't want to be around them, that I really didn't like them as people, that the whole thing had been exceedingly uncomfortable but I had squelched most of that for pragmatic reasons, I think.

Second example is similar. Last spring when I was teaching elementary kids - 3-4 classes in a row in the mornings, of up to 50 kids each - I did it because I had always been curious whether it was a career path I could do. It was way out of my comfort zone, but I pulled out the stops and did the extroverted-in-the-spotlight thing, and actually did pretty well. I enjoyed aspects of it, and was proud of it, and even liked elements of it, and because I had committed to doing it and wanted to see it through to the end (because there was really no reason not to, either, as technically I COULD do it), I really wasn't going to be able to do it unless I squelched or didn't even allow the more negative feelings to surface. Now the reality is that if had really been bad, I wouldn't have been able to do it. So it was within my skillset, so to speak -- just really pushing it in some ways. But even until the end, I wasn't sure how I felt about it exactly, or whether it was something I wanted to pursue further after that job ended. But again - right when it ended, my feeling was one of relief. And -- all of this stuff I've written about it now is stuff I realized mostly after-the-fact, once I was OUT of it.

Don't know if any of that made sense or not.

This has been applicable to a few relationships, too - but I think it's important to point out that both of these were ones where my intuition was never on-board to begin with, and I was totally rushed/overwhelmed by the other person and their feelings -- and I was just giving the benefit of the doubt and such. So I'd push back or second-guess any negative things that were nagging me, or decide I was wrong about something, and then it was after I was out that I became totally pissed off at myself for doing that and I realized my feelings were so not on board or present while I was in - I was just trying to convince myself of their existence while in. It's something I *really* kick myself about -- I've only really screwed up in this way twice, and after the first time I vowed never to do that again, but, ya know, 7 years passed and I forgot..... These two I'm-a-moron relationship instances are the primary things in my life I'm really disgusted with myself about.

 

[Ian]

The elated feeling I gain from closure immediately becomes diminished if I don't regurgitate all of my realizations back into a song. I am currently in the midst of one of those "scrambling to get it all down so that I become more self actualized" periods, and this thread inspired the decision of having this be the first place I shall display my new album. After all, if there is anyone that could benefit from listening to such music, it would be fellow INFJ's/NF's in general!

Why didn't I think of this sooner?! (a sarcastic, yet truthful comment haha)

http://www.myspace.com/painterspaintings
This is from the first album released 8/2010(which I consider to be ages ago in terms of self development)
...this new album shall be done and up on 2/20/10
Enjoy

 

[Neutralpov]

This thread almost made me cry last night. I 100% identify with it and would say that the figuring out something after or when out of the situation is a definite weakness for me. I always explained it that I was an "understanding by relation" person or just my enneagram 1 personality. Like my friends would ask me what I thought about a new guy I was dating and I could list the qualities and how I felt around him. But when around another guy or good friends I could sense (intuitively) what he was like because I would feel different feelings/energies/ vibe and I could then easily compare how I am around the guy.

I attributed this to Fe in my past. Fe is active and concretely engaged in the environment and is dangerous in overload. That is when I missed the most cues from lack of relational analysis and introspection. And since I am delayed as well if I am not continually doing it I run into bad relationships and people who I am giving too much for and will regret it later for sure.

I have a question also. Reading this thread made me realize I don't forgive well. I completely cut a best friend out of my life in Sept 2009 and I still can get violently mad internally around her because of the lack of closure. I realized it when I read that you have them in your dreams and it is so true! And I wrote that nasty venting letter and tossed it a year ago and try to forgive but I would say that there is nothing worse than what she did in terms of me holding on to my anger. She wouldn't apologize and didn't even though she knew she was wrong and wrong enough for me to cut all contact from her permanently and understood why. I have had more malicious or hurtful things in terms of intention done that I could forgive or move on with but it seems that what she "did" to end the friendship it is not the problem anymore but that last leaving stab of no closure and offing no apologies to me or sympathies which I offered her.
All in all to say this thread made me feel normal but is there a solution other than time and forcing yourself to forgive (which I have been unsuccessful at for quite some time in this ONE person)?

I relate to INFJ on forgiveness and the delayed time bomb a lot and not ENFJs. I am also a enneagram 1 so this area of knowing you are right but the other person refusing to give to you engages the “righteous anger” in me. I feel I have the same force engaged when social justice issues come up! Moving on is easy with closure but the simple pat answers to forgiving don't seem to work for me. Seemed like I was fine for a season or two and the feelings came back full force after the busy wears off.

Anyway if I you take nothing else from my post at least take this: Thank you a lot for this thread it is therapeutic I guess. Counseling classes don't work for self-therapy at all. Go figure

 

[SilkRoad]

it's not just ticking time bomb responses that are delayed, pretty much everything INFJs say is delayed. I find talking to my dad almost impossible for this reason. Ne is like "boom boom boom! connection! idea! connection!" while Ni + Fe is like "hmmm........ (12 hours - several years later) AHHHHH!!!!!", and then it expects you to wait patiently for those 12 hours while they formulate a response. I suppose it's unfair of me to single out INFJs though. one of the reasons I stay on forums so much is because I get so annoyed with people's perpetual inability to communicate in real time. I mean, there is a time for pauses and rushed responses are something to be avoided, but somewhere in the middle is where good conversation lies. is this expecting too much of people or am I just not around people who are conversationally adept?

I think when you say "somewhere in the middle is where good conversation lies", that's about it. I don't think all INFJs are quite as extreme as what you describe! I do sometimes feel like my delayed reaction thing is almost out of my control...though I know it's not, or not entirely. But being a good conversationalist...I dunno, I just try to be a good listener. And I know that sometimes I go off on odd tangents, or come back to a subject when others have moved or whatever...those aren't always bad things, but I think it's being self-aware. I just try to restrain myself a little if I'm getting too INFJ weird unless it's with someone who will really understand and appreciate that style!

I have a question also. Reading this thread made me realize I don't forgive well. I completely cut a best friend out of my life in Sept 2009 and I still can get violently mad internally around her because of the lack of closure. I realized it when I read that you have them in your dreams and it is so true! And I wrote that nasty venting letter and tossed it a year ago and try to forgive but I would say that there is nothing worse than what she did in terms of me holding on to my anger. She wouldn't apologize and didn't even though she knew she was wrong and wrong enough for me to cut all contact from her permanently and understood why. I have had more malicious or hurtful things in terms of intention done that I could forgive or move on with but it seems that what she "did" to end the friendship it is not the problem anymore but that last leaving stab of no closure and offing no apologies to me or sympathies which I offered her.
All in all to say this thread made me feel normal but is there a solution other than time and forcing yourself to forgive (which I have been unsuccessful at for quite some time in this ONE person)?

I relate to INFJ on forgiveness and the delayed time bomb a lot and not ENFJs. I am also a enneagram 1 so this area of knowing you are right but the other person refusing to give to you engages the “righteous anger” in me. I feel I have the same force engaged when social justice issues come up! Moving on is easy with closure but the simple pat answers to forgiving don't seem to work for me. Seemed like I was fine for a season or two and the feelings came back full force after the busy wears off.

Anyway if I you take nothing else from my post at least take this: Thank you a lot for this thread it is therapeutic I guess. Counseling classes don't work for self-therapy at all. Go figure

Well, I relate to a great deal of what you said - in fact, I could have written much of it myself. I totally hear you about having a hard time forgiving in cases where there is no closure. Generally I think I am very forgiving and I let a lot of stuff go. But there are those certain times when I end up holding a grudge for years. (I have to admit it has more than once been a guy who has spurned me, or who I had unrequited feelings for and who then somehow treated me in a cruel way, etc.) And when I was able to discuss the matter with them (if that was able to happen) and received some sort of apology, those negative feelings would by and large evaporate.

I think it's a combination of the delayed reaction and the righteous anger thing. I think of myself as having slow-release delayed reactions, unfortunately. I seem to be in the middle of one now, for the past week. Emotionally upset over something and feeling better some days, worse others. THinking I've come to terms with it and then other things come to mind. Sometimes, thinking I've dealt with something and then a few days later it cycles round again and it seems I must deal with it again.

It is particularly bad if there is an offended sense of justice involved too. It's like if there was injustice involved, and you didn't get an apology/closure etc, it just allows free flow for all those bad feelings to keep going round and round and round. If you get the justice aspect resolved, apologies, etc, it's like unplugging a drain which allows many or most of the bad feelings to drain away.

I think otherwise, if there is no opportunity for closure, you have to allow the passage of time, and try to school your thoughts to not dwell on the situation too much. I shouldn't preach about this - it takes so, so much time and I'm bad at schooling my thoughts. But basically that is the way to go. And if you can get as much distance as possible from the person that is good (also not always possible). Meet some new people who might be good friends, do things you enjoy, etc. But sometimes you have to suffer the passage of time with these things, I guess. I certainly have some experience of that.

 

[the state i am in]

i attribute it to not being in touch with your own experience and not really keeping the story of your experience rolling. one of the shitty things about being predominately left-brained. we identify with systems more than stories. we're always checking the ecological validity rather than building our story of the events as we subjectively experienced them, rather than building a case from inner validity. so it takes a while to identify the key conflicts and the key sticking points, rather than being reactive and responsive right away and having that register as something coming at you from outside of you, from an environmental stimulus. it's the difference, i think as has been said, between being a creature of semantic framework (Pi) rather than a creature of the time/space constructed environment around you (Pe).

any strategies for monitoring one's mood and emotional state? of trying to take better notes and trace hurt feelings to direct stimuli/events/persons?