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[MBTI General] True introversion or shy extroversion

Arclight

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Hopefully this won't be offensive to anyone but this introversion/extroversion concept nags me.

If by defining introversion/extroversion by charging with or without other people, we have to question why the difference of recharging. Do introverts (and I still might be one myself since some people drain me badly and others charge) lean towards a tendency to want to control the interaction, that in anticipating how the interaction would go, feel drained when it doesn't go the expected way so more energy must be put into the interaction to reroute it to anticipated results?

Fascinating.
 

Randomnity

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Hopefully this won't be offensive to anyone but this introversion/extroversion concept nags me.

If by defining introversion/extroversion by charging with or without other people, we have to question why the difference of recharging. Do introverts (and I still might be one myself since some people drain me badly and others charge) lean towards a tendency to want to control the interaction, that in anticipating how the interaction would go, feel drained when it doesn't go the expected way so more energy must be put into the interaction to reroute it to anticipated results?

For me just interacting with people and remembering my social skills takes energy. Some situations (being polite, controlling emotions, unpleasant people, awkward introverts, strangers) are more draining for me than others (pleasant extroverts who guide conversation without dominating, discussions of technical things, close friends).

I suppose it would be more stressful and therefore more draining if someone did completely bizarre things and I had to figure out how to react, and things like rude behaviour and criticism are stressful as well, but I don't have a need to control things like conversational topics - I'm actually happier not to control it, as long as I'm not forced into silence by a pushy extrovert.
 

rav3n

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Less topical although it might be, and more expected outcome where expected outcome might be a light, pleasant series of banter or anything else. When an introvert creates an anticipated outcome, perhaps it includes self-positioning or preconceived lines where when the interaction heads in another direction, there's a lot more gear shifting that goes on.
 

mochajava

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Randomnity: Some situations (being polite, controlling emotions, unpleasant people, awkward introverts, strangers) are more draining for me than others (pleasant extroverts who guide conversation without dominating, discussions of technical things, close friends).

Funny - I would define draining vs. easy/pleasant social interactions in exactly the same way as you did.
 

Randomnity

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Less topical although it might be, and more expected outcome where expected outcome might be a light, pleasant series of banter or anything else. When an introvert creates an anticipated outcome, perhaps it includes self-positioning or preconceived lines where when the interaction heads in another direction, there's a lot more gear shifting that goes on.

I guess I still don't understand what you're saying when you say "another direction". I think it's logical that introverts will react more strongly to stressful social situations than extroverts. I would suspect Ps will be more flexible than Js with unexpected changes in conversational flow, as will people with greater social skills (often but not exclusively extroverts). Still not sure what the control is of, and why introversion wants control.

Do you mean control from unwanted excessive stimuli? I think some definitions of introversion mention sensitivity to noises, etc. So someone yelling at us would probably be more stressful than to an extrovert, in general.
 

rav3n

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I guess I still don't understand what you're saying when you say "another direction". I think it's logical that introverts will react more strongly to stressful social situations than extroverts. I would suspect Ps will be more flexible than Js with unexpected changes in conversational flow, as will people with greater social skills (often but not exclusively extroverts). Still not sure what the control is of, and why introversion wants control.

Do you mean control from unwanted excessive stimuli? I think some definitions of introversion mention sensitivity to noises, etc. So someone yelling at us would probably be more stressful than to an extrovert, in general.
Elements of any kind might need to be controlled.

So you know, these are just thoughts without a complete and definitive concept. I'm throwing them out for interest or battering sake. And for certain, psych isn't my expertise but it is eternally fascinating.

Let's look at it from a different perspective. Introverts have internal worlds. Those internal worlds are controlled. So when an introvert seeks external input, they go into an uncontrolled environment, particularly when it encompasses people. Looking at people in general, many try to recreate comfortable environments. Apply this to introversion.
 

IZthe411

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Hopefully this won't be offensive to anyone but this introversion/extroversion concept nags me.

If by defining introversion/extroversion by charging with or without other people, we have to question why the difference of recharging. Do introverts (and I still might be one myself since some people drain me badly and others charge) lean towards a tendency to want to control the interaction, that in anticipating how the interaction would go, feel drained when it doesn't go the expected way so more energy must be put into the interaction to reroute it to anticipated results?

Whoa...what are you asking here?

I don't want to control the interaction- I may have expectations of how it's going to go, based on my Si + Ne and that may make me want to shrivel up and disappear, but I'm not trying to control what happens during. My Si/Ne (not that's it's always negative, but the thought of being around people can frustrate me) might be wrong; I could have a great time, laughing and joking and all that, but when it's all said and done I need to chill out. Alone. No kind of stimulation. That usually means I need to sleep, since that's the only way I can be sure that I won't get into something that will drain me further.
 

IZthe411

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Elements of any kind might need to be controlled.

So you know, these are just thoughts without a complete and definitive concept. I'm throwing them out for interest or battering sake. And for certain, psych isn't my expertise but it is eternally fascinating.

Let's look at it from a different perspective. Introverts have internal worlds. Those internal worlds are controlled. So when an introvert seeks external input, they go into an uncontrolled environment, particularly when it encompasses people. Looking at people in general, many try to recreate comfortable environments. Apply this to introversion.

The introvert who likes reading and other solitary stuff -external stimuli that they can control. Friends who they know will sit there and stare at the wall with them- controlled.

When I want to be around people, I want some stimulation LOL.
 

rav3n

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Whoa...what are you asking here?

I don't want to control the interaction- I may have expectations of how it's going to go, based on my Si + Ne and that may make me want to shrivel up and disappear, but I'm not trying to control what happens during. My Si/Ne (not that's it's always negative, but the thought of being around people can frustrate me) might be wrong; I could have a great time, laughing and joking and all that, but when it's all said and done I need to chill out. Alone. No kind of stimulation. That usually means I need to sleep, since that's the only way I can be sure that I won't get into something that will drain me further.
Detachment or disengaging are forms of control.
 
Last edited:

rav3n

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But isn't your question about control when you are around others- not when you're alone?
It's all one big ball of control.

Shifting perspectives once again. Extroversion. To be recharged by being with other people includes heavy elements of laissez-faire and acceptance of uncontrollable elements. Notice how ESTPs are one of the most if not the most extroverted of extroverts? They're SE dom P-types, very laissez-faire when it comes to acceptance of people in the here and now. No Si or Fi and barely an Ni. Whether they can rhyme like entjs is another story.
 

IZthe411

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It's all one big ball of control.

Shifting perspectives once again. Extroversion. To be recharged by being with other people includes heavy elements of laissez-faire and acceptance of uncontrollable elements. Notice how ESTPs are one of the most if not the most extroverted of extroverts? They're SE dom P-types, very laissez-faire when it comes to acceptance of people in the here and now. No Si or Fi and barely an Ni. Whether they can rhyme like entjs is another story.

I see where you are going. That's an interesting way to spin it.

@ BOLD You inspire me LOL

ESTP the coolest of the cool
Ti+Se
Equal worry free
Come what may,
Si-Fi-Ni don't get no play
until they run up on an ENTJ!
 

Southern Kross

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Hopefully this won't be offensive to anyone but this introversion/extroversion concept nags me.

If by defining introversion/extroversion by charging with or without other people, we have to question why the difference of recharging. Do introverts (and I still might be one myself since some people drain me badly and others charge) lean towards a tendency to want to control the interaction, that in anticipating how the interaction would go, feel drained when it doesn't go the expected way so more energy must be put into the interaction to reroute it to anticipated results?
I don't think it is about control.

From what I understand introverts' brains have a high level of chemical stimulation and it doesn't take too much to overload them. They withdraw because they literally feel overwhelmed by more than a small amount of human interaction. Extroverts' brains are not as naturally stimulated so must seek out others to induce that chemical reaction.
 

rav3n

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I see where you are going. That's an interesting way to spin it.

@ BOLD You inspire me LOL

ESTP the coolest of the cool
Ti+Se
Equal worry free
Come what may,
Si-Fi-Ni don't get no play
until they run up on an ENTJ!
:laugh:

Nicely done!

I don't think it is about control.

From what I understand introverts' brains have a high level of chemical stimulation and it doesn't take too much to overload them. They withdraw because they literally feel overwhelmed by more than a small amount of human interaction. Extroverts' brains are not as naturally stimulated so must seek out others to induce that chemical reaction.
*takes a deep hit* Yeah, I'm feeling kind of munchie. Want some crackers? :laugh:

Okay, now seriously. Has this been scientifically proven, the difference between an introverts and extroverts brain? I'm asking since I honestly don't know.
 

CuriousFeeling

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I tend to find one-on-one interaction more satisfying than a huge group. If I had to get up and lecture in front of people, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but I find huge crowds of people overwhelming. But I like to have a close group of friends I can confide with. I like to find someone who cares that I can take into my world of imagination, to be with someone who I can share my feelings and thoughts. I truly like people, just after a long amount of time being in a very high-intensity and high excitement environment, it takes energy away from me, and I like to spend time on my own reflecting on my experiences, as well as relaxing on my own to decompress. I find I gain much more energy from spending thoughtful reflective time at home. I like social interaction, but I usually need to give myself an energy boost to get through it.
 

Southern Kross

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:laugh:

Nicely done!

*takes a deep hit* Yeah, I'm feeling kind of munchie. Want some crackers? :laugh:

Okay, now seriously. Has this been scientifically proven, the difference between an introverts and extroverts brain? I'm asking since I honestly don't know.
I think so. I think I read an article on it somewhere...

Here's one I found from USA Today. I don't know how scientific it is:

Experts: Introverted youth have deep roots for behavior

By Janie Magruder, Gannett News ServiceMon Nov 28, 7:36 AM ET

The attitude that there's something wrong with introverted people is widely shared in society, where fast talk and snap decisions are often valued over listening, deliberation and careful planning. Extroverts seem to rule the world or, at least, the USA, which hasn't elected an introverted president for three decades, since Jimmy Carter.

"The signals we get from the world agree that extroversion is valued," says Sanford Cohn, an associate professor in curriculum and instruction at Arizona State University. "A lot of the messages we get from society have to do with being social, and in order to be social you have to behave a certain way."

But that is impossible for introverted kids. Raising them isn't easy, particularly if parents, family members, teachers, coaches and other adults don't allow them to be who they are.

Introverted children enjoy the internal world of thoughts, feelings and fantasies, and there's a physiological reason for this. Researchers using brain scans have found introverts have more brain activity in general, and specifically in the frontal lobes. When these areas are activated, introverts are energized by retrieving long-term memories, problem solving, introspection, complex thinking and planning.

Extroverts enjoy the external world of things, people and activities. They have more activity in brain areas involved in processing the sensory information we're bombarded with daily. Because extroverts have less internally generated brain activity, they search for more external stimuli to energize them.

"It's the different pathways that are turned on that activate the behaviors and abilities we see in introverts and extroverts," says Marti Olsen Laney, a neuroscience researcher and author in Portland, Ore., who is credited with connecting introversion with its underlying biology. "It impacts all areas of their lives: how they process information, how they restore their energy, what they enjoy and how they communicate."

Introverted children need time alone more than do extroverted children, says Laney, whose book, The Hidden Gifts of the Introverted Child, is due in January. "Extroverts gain energy by being out and about," but "being with people takes energy from introverts, and they need to get away to restore that energy."

Laney says introverted kids also behave differently.

They're not slow, inattentive or shy. Shyness is behavior that may diminish as children grow; introversion is a character trait that lasts.
 

William K

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From what I understand introverts' brains have a high level of chemical stimulation and it doesn't take too much to overload them. They withdraw because they literally feel overwhelmed by more than a small amount of human interaction. Extroverts' brains are not as naturally stimulated so must seek out others to induce that chemical reaction.

I think that's more from the theory about highly sensitive persons (HSPs), who can also be extroverts.
 

rav3n

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I think so. I think I read an article on it somewhere...

Here's one I found from USA Today. I don't know how scientific it is:
This is interesting since there are studies that show that as a we age, our brain does a trim on neural pathways, leaving open only those that we utilize. So does this mean the introversion/extroversion dichotomy is something inherent from birth or is it something environmentally influenced that interact with our naturally heritable traits? In other words, do we all begin life wide open and due to a combination of traits and environmental influences, become one or the other?

As a borderline extrovert/introvert, it's one of those issues that fascinate.
 

Southern Kross

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This is interesting since there are studies that show that as a we age, our brain does a trim on neural pathways, leaving open only those that we utilize. So does this mean the introversion/extroversion dichotomy is something inherent from birth or is it something environmentally influenced that interact with our naturally heritable traits? In other words, do we all begin life wide open and due to a combination of traits and environmental influences, become one or the other?

As a borderline extrovert/introvert, it's one of those issues that fascinate.
You make a good point about the neural pathways. I wonder how much is nature and how much can be changed in regards to that. Exposure to situations we find unpleasant can also help develop new neural pathways and make it easier on you to deal with them. I have severely reduced my level of introversion by forcing myself to deal with people but I do sense that I can only go so far with this. I still really struggle in social situations and at being so withdrawn. It makes me think that maybe all I did was reduce my shyness not my introversion...
 

rav3n

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You make a good point about the neural pathways. I wonder how much is nature and how much can be changed in regards to that. Exposure to situations we find unpleasant can also help develop new neural pathways and make it easier on you to deal with them. I have severely reduced my level of introversion by forcing myself to deal with people but I do sense that I can only go so far with this. I still really struggle in social situations and at being so withdrawn. It makes me think that maybe all I did was reduce my shyness not my introversion...
Either is possible. I honestly don't know. But for sure, when I make the effort to reach out, it gets easier. I've also read that it's possible to forge new neural pathways. Don't know where the line is drawn in relation to aging.
 
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