[MBTI General] Can't Talk To People? :/

[October Rust]

I need some advice, encouragement or hope.. or something. I thought fellow NFs might be able to provide it.

I'm really, really socially awkward around people I don't know well. It's like I have to literally force myself to talk. I've been told before that I should just try and be myself, what do I have to lose if someone doesn't like me? The thing is, if I say something stupid I think about it for days.. it tortures me. It's constantly in the back of my mind and it makes me feel really bad about myself.

I don't know what to do. I can't make friends because I avoid talking to people whenever I can. I think some people see me as a snob, but I'm just shy.

I get really nervous about job interviews and have never had a job before because I suck at trying to convince someone that I'm a good person for the position. I hold myself to these high standards but I never match up to them. I hold other people to those standards as well, but somehow I'm always worse than them.

Help anyone?

 

[Cephalonimbus]

I have the same problem and have spent years in complete isolation, but it has gotten less severe over the years and the more i interact, the more confident i become.

It's important to realize that everybody says stupid things. People might go WTF for a brief moment, but they'll have forgotten it the next moment. I know from experience that shame, and the fear of saying something stupid or not having something interesting to say, can be a tremendous obstacle. It can be truly crippling. But it's completely unnecessary, as it accomplishes nothing more than feeling bad about yourself, which in turn makes it even harder to socialize... you see the pattern there? Your thoughts about yourself and what you have to be or do in order to be worthwhile talking to, aren't at all realistic, and they're stifling you. The solution to your problem is to break out of that vicous cycle. That's easier said than done, though... but i know you can do it You don't have to do it alone, either. Personally, i've benefitted quite a lot from group therapy and cognitive behavioral therapy and even made a few good friends there.

I know it can feel absolutely hopeless, i've been there and it's a terrible place, but it really isn't hopeless. Please don't ever forget that!

 

[October Rust]

Aww, thanks so much

I think you're right about people forgetting that you've said anything stupid after a few moments. There are times when I fear that I've said something to hurt someone, and that they don't like me anymore because of it.. and I worry and worry, and then when I see them next, there is no problem at all! And when I think about it, I don't hold what others say against them.

It is hard...but it's good to know that there is help out there. I might have to look into that.

You've made me feel a lot better though It's always good to hear that you aren't the only one.

 

[gromit]

I like to ask people questions about themselves and what they are doing. It is interesting to hear what they have to say and then you don't have to do as much talking.

 

[October Rust]

Haha, I like that idea! xD

 

[Cephalonimbus]

Aww, thanks so much

I think you're right about people forgetting that you've said anything stupid after a few moments. There are times when I fear that I've said something to hurt someone, and that they don't like me anymore because of it.. and I worry and worry, and then when I see them next, there is no problem at all! And when I think about it, I don't hold what others say against them.

Yeaaah that's the spirit
I have to remind myself of his too sometimes, but what you say here is true. It's really not realistic to think like that, and it actually holds you back.
Of course, occasionally people will not respond positively... it's important not to interpret that as a confirmation of your self-doubt. I know i have... but that isn't realistic either. It's just that even the most awesome person in the world can't be liked by everybody.

It is hard...but it's good to know that there is help out there. I might have to look into that.

It might be a good idea. Besides the fact that it helped me recognize and change my destructive thought patterns, one thing i really liked about group therapy was that the people there were quite supportive and open to any weaknesses other members had, which created a very safe atmosphere to start working on my social skills. Personally i was at a point where i really didn't know where to start, and this was infinitely easier than, say, going to a bar alone and trying to talk to random strangers. it can be a long and frustrating process though, but in my case, it was totally worth it.

You've made me feel a lot better though It's always good to hear that you aren't the only one.

I'm really glad to hear that

 

[prplchknz]

get tipsy. not drunk, have a glass of wine before you go out or take a shot.

 

[Fidelia]

Gromit is right on.

Each person is an expert on something or is passionate about something. Find out what it is and show an interest in it. Look at each exchange as an opportunity to learn something you didn't know. Even negative people have something to teach us (even through their negativity) if we are looking for what it is.

Shyness is actually a form of self-centredness, even though we don't usually face it. Our insecurities keep us focussed on ourselves, our interests and our needs. They magnify our mistakes. This doesn't leave enough room for us to put ourselves in someone else's shoes and think of what they would like to get out of the exchange. When we start focussing on other people, they will automatically respond more warmly to us, they are pleased to be given the opportunity to talk about what matters to them, and we learn to get out of our own heads and look outwards.

Conversation is like a ping pong ball. A game is not fun when one person smashes all the balls at us without waiting for us to hit it back. It is also not fun if they catch all of the balls we hit their way and put them in their pockets. Good conversation usually involves responding to a person's comment or question in a supportive way, and then adding something that allows the other person to contribute something or opens up new avenues of conversation. It's kind of like putting down a word in Scrabble that opens up new opportunities on the board.

At first, try to think of the most common conversational situations you will get into and script yourself with some possible things you could say, so that you do not feel put on the spot.
- What could you say when someone asks how you are to validate their question and then put the focus on them?
- What do you know about each person's interests or people that are important to themthat you could remember from the last conversation and allude to or ask about? This makes a person feel listened to and like they are valued by you.
- What is an honest compliment you could give?
- How would you accept a compliment appropriately?
- How could you use body language and words to appropriately close off a conversation when you have to go?
- How could you greet someone?
- What are some facts about yourself that may be relevant to the conversation?
- In a job interview, what are some of the most commonly asked questions? Have you thought ahead of time about how you could answer them?

Mostly, insecure people display rejecting body language and sometimes even speech because they are not comfortable. Remember that other people are affected by this and it makes them feel badly. When you don't respond, they feel stupid for having spoken. When you seem uncomfortable, they are unsure of what to do to help you. If you don't look at them, they may assume that you dislike them or that there is a problem between you, rather than that you are shy. Try to focus on making your verbal and non-verbal messages match. Non-verbal messages account for 90% of the impression you leave, and yet they are open to misinterpretations. Therefore, your verbal message needs to reinforce it. When the verbal message and the non-verbal message are not the same, people mostly will believe your behaviour, rather than your words. Try to put yourself in their shoes and think of them being uncomfortable, rather than focussing on the negative messages in your head and the discomfort you are feeling. When you get a negative message popping into your head, be ready with some counter message to neutralize it. By replacing unconscious thoughts with a positive, conscious ones, you are giving yourself a new script and new thought patterns.

Practice is essential to get better at any new skill. When we avoid doing something, it becomes blown out of proportion in our heads. Practicing it allows us to face it in a more realistic way and to improve. No one in the world is born a completely confident and at ease person. Some hide their insecurities in less obvious ways, but they are still there with everyone. It is not a matter of predestination, beyond your control of whether you happen to be a good communicator or not. Mostly we are afraid of the elements that we believe are out of our control. By thinking ahead and being proactive instead of reactive, you can predict what is going to happen much more easily. By practicing, you know much better what to expect and can more easily steer around conversational potholes in the road. Conversation and the art of making people feel at ease is a skill and one that is well worth developing. Everyone in the world is capable of becoming a good communicator.
-

 

[Fidelia]

Gromit is right on.

Each person is an expert on something or is passionate about something. Find out what it is and show an interest in it. Look at each exchange as an opportunity to learn something you didn't know. Even negative people have something to teach us (through their negativity) if we are looking for what it is. Something as simple as a taxi ride can be a great opportunity! You'll never even see the person again, and yet you walk away with knowledge you didn't have before!

Shyness is actually a form of self-centredness, even though we don't usually face it. Our insecurities keep us focussed on ourselves, our interests and our needs. They magnify our mistakes. This doesn't leave enough room for us to put ourselves in someone else's shoes and think of what they would like to get out of the exchange. When we start focussing on other people, they will automatically respond more warmly to us, they are pleased to be given the opportunity to talk about what matters to them, and we learn to get out of our own heads and look outwards.

Mostly, insecure people display rejecting body language and sometimes even speech because they are not comfortable. Remember that other people are affected by this and it makes them feel badly. When you don't respond, they feel stupid for having spoken. When you seem uncomfortable, they are unsure of what to do to help you. If you don't look at them, they may assume that you dislike them or that there is a problem between you, rather than that you are shy.

Try to focus on making your verbal and non-verbal messages match. Non-verbal messages account for 90% of the impression you leave, and yet they are open to misinterpretations. Therefore, your verbal message needs to reinforce it.

When the verbal message and the non-verbal message are not the same, people mostly will believe your behaviour, rather than your words. Try to put yourself in their shoes and think of them being uncomfortable, rather than focussing on the negative messages in your head and the discomfort you are feeling. When you get a negative message popping into your head, be ready with some counter message to neutralize it. By replacing unconscious thoughts with a positive, conscious ones, you are giving yourself a new script and new thought patterns.

Practice is essential to get better at any new skill. When we avoid doing something, it becomes blown out of proportion in our heads. Practicing it allows us to face it in a more realistic way and to improve. No one in the world is born a completely confident and at ease person. Some hide their insecurities in less obvious ways, but they are still there with everyone. It is not a matter of predestination, beyond your control of whether you happen to be a good communicator or not.

Mostly we are afraid of the elements that we believe are out of our control. By thinking ahead and being proactive instead of reactive, you can predict what is going to happen much more easily. Through practice, you know much better what to expect and can more easily steer around conversational potholes in the road. Conversation and the art of making people feel at ease is a skill and one that is well worth developing. Everyone in the world is capable of becoming a good communicator.

Conversation is like a ping pong ball. A game is not fun when one person smashes all the balls at us without waiting for us to hit it back. It is also not fun if they catch all of the balls we hit their way and put them in their pockets. Good conversation usually involves responding to a person's comment or question in a supportive way, and then adding something that allows the other person to contribute something or opens up new avenues of conversation. It's kind of like putting down a word in Scrabble that opens up new opportunities on the board.

At first, try to think of the most common conversational situations you will get into and script yourself with some possible things you could say, so that you do not feel put on the spot.
- What could you say when someone asks how you are to validate their question and then put the focus on them?
- What do you know about each person's interests or people that are important to themthat you could remember from the last conversation and allude to or ask about? This makes a person feel listened to and like they are valued by you.
- What is an honest compliment you could give?
- How would you accept a compliment appropriately?
- How could you use body language and words to appropriately close off a conversation when you have to go?
- How could you greet someone?
- What are some facts about yourself that may be relevant to the conversation?
- In a job interview, what are some of the most commonly asked questions? Have you thought ahead of time about how you could answer them?
- What are three situation appropriate questions that you could ask almost anyone to start or carry a conversation?

Learning a new skill happens with four steps:
1) Watching someone do it.
There are some wonderful books written on the topic of becoming more comfortable conversing. Check out your local bookstore. Also think about the people whose company you enjoy. What qualities make them well-liked? Watch some people whom you think are good communicators and see what they do.

2) Doing it with help.
Admit that you need help to someone else and have them practice with you and give you ideas. Set up some simple social situations (like an exchange with a clerk in a store, asking directions, getting information etc) and bring that person along for moral support. If things get awkward, they can jump in. Start easy enough that it is impossible to fail and then build from there.

3) Doing it alone.
Same thing, but without bringing someone along. Also, try going to a social event with someone, but split off from them for small amounts of time to have a short conversation. Increase the length of time or number of conversations as you gain confidence.

4) Teaching someone else how to do it.
Look for someone like a child or someone new to the country who may need your moral support or scripting as they learn to communicate. As you think about how to teach it, it will make it easier for you to do yourself and you can become more and more advanced. You should always be trying to get to the skill level of someone more advanced than you, while training someone less advanced than you what you know.

Remember that the more you avoid something, the more formidable it becomes in your mind. Facing it head on shrinks it back down to its actual size and also makes you more resilient when you do mess up.

You have something important to offer. Do not allow your shyness to deprive other people of the warmth and interest you can give them, and the good you can do in the world! When you start looking outward, you begin to see just how good you actually have it and that there are always other people at different points along the road of communication.

 

[October Rust]

Yeaaah that's the spirit
I have to remind myself of his too sometimes, but what you say here is true. It's really not realistic to think like that, and it actually holds you back.
Of course, occasionally people will not respond positively... it's important not to interpret that as a confirmation of your self-doubt. I know i have... but that isn't realistic either. It's just that even the most awesome person in the world can't be liked by everybody.

Yeah, I think I just have to try and remember that people that are mean to you aren't worth your time. Some seem to play on your weaknesses, but occasionally there are some people who I think can recognize my shyness, and they're really patient with me and try to bring me out of my shell a bit. It's really nice

It might be a good idea. Besides the fact that it helped me recognize and change my destructive thought patterns, one thing i really liked about group therapy was that the people there were quite supportive and open to any weaknesses other members had, which created a very safe atmosphere to start working on my social skills. Personally i was at a point where i really didn't know where to start, and this was infinitely easier than, say, going to a bar alone and trying to talk to random strangers. it can be a long and frustrating process though, but in my case, it was totally worth it.

I'm seeing a counselor now, but I don't think that she really knows how much of a problem I have communicating with most people. In situations like that I can pass myself off as being a decent conversationalist, but if someone comes up to me and starts talking to me out of the blue, I get really nervous. I'll ask about it next time I'm there. It would be great if they are as supportive for me as they were for you

I'm really glad to hear that

Awesome

 

[Spamtar]

I sympathies with you as I used to have a bit of a difficult time with social conversation.

Actually it was turning the social conversation dynamic into something else than what it is traditionally thought of which made me more appreciable to NT sensibilities.

For me it was PUA (the pick-up arts) which both motivated me (with a sex reward) and made what otherwise seemed like a waste of time into a dynamic I could understand....esentially a game.

Although I doubt the pick up arts are your cup of tea, nevertheless its primary components of social dynamics and NLP (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming ) can just as easily be applied for platonic purposes. Thus mindless chatter can be adjusted into meaningful social experiments.

After a while it even becomes fun.

 

[William K]

I'd suggest reading Dale Carnegie's "How to Win Friends and Influence People". It was written over 70 years ago I know, but a lot of the stuff are still valid

 

[Elfboy]

a few things
I. you say that you are tormented for days if you say something stupid, but you can't judge if what you say is stupid by others' reactions most people are stupid and easily offended and 90% of the time, it doesn't have to do with you. the most likely possibilities are:
- the person has a big ego and is easily offended
- you didn't tell the person what they wanted to hear
- the person couldn't accept what you said
- the person was emotionally troubled about something else and took it out on you
- the person was just a douche bag
- the person misinterpreted what you said
- you disagreed with that person and they dislike for it, even if you're right or it's a matter of opinion

II. stop beating yourself up
1) you don't have to meet your standards immediately, if you're working towards those standards, that's reason enough to feel good about yourself
2) I know as both an INF and a 4, the world is a dark and terrible place we seem to be the only people who have a problem with that. but you CAN become strong if you tell yourself that you can be
3) if you do your best, you have nothing to be ashamed of.
4) don't feel bad about not wanting to talk to people. most people are extremely boring
5) on a similar note, don't feel bad about wanting to be alone for long periods of time, sometimes what's going on in your head is just more interesting that the rest of the world around you
6) being afraid or worried is absolutely useless. try and pin point the cause of your anxiety to eliminate it
7) when you find something wrong with yourself, be excited that it's an area for you to improve in =)

III. now for some actionable steps =)
1) you obviously feel alone and scared, get some friends who will support you and make you feel better.
2) on a similar note, you seem like a very affectionate person and you need someone or something to shower with affection that would return that affection. Until you are confident enough to get a boyfriend, try getting a really friendly dog that will lick your face and snuggle with you.
3) once you have your dog, go out walking with him for 30-60 minutes a day when it's bright out, you'll feel happier
4) if you are really depressed, see your doctor. sometimes the passage ways that allow seratonin to reach the brain aren't working properly and your brain doesn't get the mood stimulus. if this is the case, medication can correct this problem
5) pray
6) on a similar note GOD LOVES YOU! that alone is reason enough to be ecstatic with joy
7) take some time to focus on YOU. it's not about other people right now, you need to help yourself before you can help others
- take up a hobbie
- dedicate some alone time to yourself every day where you think about you. what makes you comfortable? what qualities do you like about yourself? what are your personal values? what areas would you like to grow in? how do you operate as a person? what do you want out of life?
- pamper yourself. go shopping and get some new, sexy clothes, go out to eat a little more, take a long luxurious bath
- relax with a nice cup of tea, if you don't like one kind, their are many varieties, but tea is incredibly healthy and relaxing and makes you feel great
- read a book while enjoying your tea. if you really don't like tea, hot chocolate and apple cider are good too =)
- every morning, look at yourself in the mirror and say "I am a good person" "I am sexy" "I am strong" even if you don't believe it now, you will BECOME that way

I'd post more, but I'm really tired now. anyway, good luck

 

[October Rust]

Some really great answers, guys! Think I'm gonna have to come back and reread all of this any time I'm lonely and need a push in the right direction. Thanks so much

 

[Fidelia]

Second the motion on Dale Carnegie! If it's possible, I'd highly recommend taking the Dale Carnegie course, which sets you up with public speaking opportunities where you can't possibly fail. It's initially expensive, but has made the difference many times over for a lot of the jobs my brother has gotten and really increased his confidence level dramatically. Another one would be Toastmasters.

If you feel underconfident generally, you can greatly reduce your discomfort in all situations by acquiring more skills and by expanding the circle of people you know and increasing your connections with people. Start with those you feel safe with, but expand through - saying thank you (verbally and in writing) when people have done something nice for you, share enough information with them that they have some more to work with and understand you better, know your interests and some possible topics of conversation etc, and get involved in service towards others. You don't have to have big conversational skills to wash dishes with a volunteer group of people, serve food, help with a project, cat/dogsit, take in an absent neighbour's mail and so on. These will help focus your attention outwards, expand the breadth and depth of interactions, and increase your comfort level as you get safe practice.

 

[Serenes]

I am pretty shy myself and I used to be really bad at social situations. I always wanted to go through school invisible, because I was so scared of people. But in high school health class, I found out about this thing called Social Anxiety :/ and realized most of the symptoms sounded like me. Then I wanted to get better so I read advice on how to improve and read some self-help books. I took little steps each day to put myself out of my comfort zone and forced myself to do things I normally would not have done.

-I started out by smiling at people randomly and saying Hi when they passed by. Tried to look more approachable (be aware of how you look - smile more to look friendly)
-If someone was alone, I'd randomly go up and try to start a conversation with them as practice. Just talk about anything! Like what the weather was like, what did they do yesterday, how are they feeling or w/e. Just keep asking questions and some people love talking so you don't have to say much. You can practice first by forming your questions and answers in your head before you approach someone. If it gets awkward, you can just say goodbye and leave lol. (you can try going to the park, mall, or even at school.. wherever)
-Remember to keep eye contact when you are talking to them. Force yourself! and try to fake smiles ;p if you can.. it helps the other person feel comfortable. (you can practice in the mirror, talking to yourself)

Take little steps at a time depending on how much you can handle. At first you can talk a little, if you are getting better you can try to make the conversations longer.. and the next time you can make it even longer. Keep repeating.

You even can kind of think of these things as a game, and a challenge. I mean, even if it gets awkward or the conversations hits a dead end.. it won't really affect you much since it's random strangers you may never even meet again. So why care what they think of you. And at least you can walk away from it and think to yourself "wow at least I tried! Good Job!" plus you may even make friends! lol it's kind of funny because after I talked to someone randomly, I'd be like "YAY +1 point for today." and I tried to get a point each day.

The more you do it, the more it will eventually get easier for you. Seriously though, I used to be an Incredibly introverted, frightened and shy person.... but I was actually able to do this by pushing myself, keep thinking "what's the worst that can happen? they won't like you? so what, that's not going to kill you. Just do it!" ;p (even if you are scared & terrified, that's all the more reason to push yourself and do it). There are so many other people out there anyways who you can get along with. Oh and there is also the saying that people often are so self conscious about their own selves than to worry about what You did or said, hehe.

Another thing I do is, notice what I Like and Don't Like about my friends or people who talk to me.. I pay attention to how they interact with me and how they interact with other people. Then I use how they made me feel with their actions/words/facial expressions to interact with others the same way to try and elicit the same kind of feelings (happiness, acceptance, silliness, etc). When a friend does something that makes me feel bad, I avoid doing those same things to others. Ex: When friends remember what I said or something specific about me that I shared awhile back.. it makes me happy to think that they actually paid attention to what I said. So I try to do this with friends sometimes... pay attention to what they talk about and bring it up when appropriate to show that I listened, hopefully invoking the same happiness for them. When friends ignore me or give me certain looks that make me feel uncomfortable, I remember and try not to do that with others because I don't want them to possibly feel that way as well. Sooo in a way I'm kind of like a chameleon lol.

I also noticed that... having internet friends helped me be more open about my thoughts as well... it's like practicing to form thoughts and conversations and experimenting with ideas.... see people's reaction online and then you can transfer that to real life conversations.

I can still be shy.. but those are some things I've done to help me become more open and able to be somewhat talkative now and take initiative when i have to. It has helped me make friends .. I hope it helps you somehow. If I can do it, you can too! ..I'm like the biggest scaredy cat lol.

I used to be so different back then.. never smiled, hardly talked, and never tried to let people get close to me because I was always scared of what they would think. If I told my current friends this, they'd be surprised

This quote also motivates me "If you want to be loved, then practice love!" I can change that to "If you want to have friends, practice being a friend!"

 

[Onceajoan]

I like to ask people questions about themselves and what they are doing. It is interesting to hear what they have to say and then you don't have to do as much talking.

This is my strategy as well. It seems to work because, unlike me, most people like to talk about themselves. They are often flattered when others take a real interest in them. I really try to understand and figure them out by active listening. I ask provocative questions - questions that no one has ever asked them to get them engaged. Often they'll say, "Huh...No one has ever asked me that..." Then they'll go off with their response. I think some people like this form of interaction because it enables them to look at things from a new perspective or understand something differently.

But some people are just really dull or full of superficial fluff to bother interacting with. Seek out the interesting ones, if you have a choice. Avoid the rest.

 

[Vasilisa]

This older thread might provide some useful advice for you as well.

 

[nolla]

Can't help but to notice a certain trend here. Most of these advices seem so utilitarian to me. Not to say they don't work, but it seems like they are changes that are first made on the outside and then have the desired effect on the inside. When I was battling with the same problem, I couldn't go that way because I felt like it is too superficial. I didn't want to feel like I am faking it.

What I did, I concentrated on finding out why there is this voice in my head saying that I'm not good enough to be liked by the others. Because obviously it's ridiculous to think that I am worse than the majority of people, and that was exactly what I thought about myself. After I traced my problem back as far as I could get, the problem fixed itself. Almost. I did have to get into a new social setting that would allow me to be the new me instead of repeating the old habit. After that I still needed to learn a lot of social clues and stuff like that, and probably people could sense something weird about me. And after that I still had to be able to admit to myself and especially the others that I missed out an important part of so called normal life being isolated through teenage. It felt like the biggest secret back then.

And after that there still was something to admit. That I am an introvert. So, I actually came back a bit, and now it feels like I've come a full circle. I'm ok about it. The biggest thing that changed, I'm free from shame and regret now. For the most of the time.

 

[mochajava]

Nolla - what was the deeper reason that you found for not feeling like you were as good as everyone else? Was it the introversion, or was it something else? What was that process like for you, if you're comfortable sharing? It seems like a unique take on this topic that hasn't been addressed yet -- solving the problem from the inside out, rather than the outside-in.