• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[MBTI General] Am I Makin Crazy Talk Here?

nolla

Senor Membrane
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
3,166
MBTI Type
INFP
as for a look in the eye... this has nothing at all to do with NFs being special or anything... but there is a look that NFs have sometimes, which is like they are attentive to you in a friendly manner, but also like they're looking through you - like they're looking for more information than they're getting. i would venture to say it could be an actual NF/non-NF difference, present in specific movements of the eyes. i wouldn't be surprised to hear that Ns and Ss, and Fs and Ts, have differences in their eye movement patterns, since we tend to pay attention to different things. the "looking through" is probably an N thing and the close people-attention is probably a F thing. maybe it's just a natural reaction to realize when people are looking at and responding to the same things that we do. i also think it would seem a fair statistic that NFs in particular would pick up on an odd difference like this, not because we're better in any way than the other types, but because we're both pattern and people attuned.

Good description. I would add that this same feeling can be there also without eye contact. I don't know how to describe it, though. Maybe it's a bit like absent-mindedness without actually being absent-minded. If that makes any sense.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
OMG WHY IS THE WORLD SO MEAN TO US? SOB. BEING A MINORITY AUTOMATICALLY MAKES OUR LIVES HARDER AND THUS ENTITLES US TO THE RIGHT TO WHINE, WHINE, WHINE, AND WHINE SUM MOAR. THE MAJORITY ANTAGONIZES US AS A RULE, CUZ WE'RE THE SPECIAL LITTLE SNOWFLAKES OF THIS WORLD THAT NO ONE UNDERSTANDS. BOOHOO. WE'RE DAMN SPECIAL AND NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO TELL US OTHERWISE CUZ THEY'RE NOT ONE OF US. LET'S STICK THROUGH THIS CRUEL WORLD TOGETHER CUZ WE HAVE EVERYTHING SO MUCH HARDER THAN OTHERS CRAI CRAI CRAI. EVERYONE ELSE'S LIFE IS ALWAYS EASIER THAN OURS.

:rofl1:

I'M A SPECIAL LITTLE SNOWFLAKE LOVE MEEEE.

TBH I don't think this whole "kinship" thing has to do with being an NF/being NFs. Universal tr00th: People tend to be more empathetic to people who are similar to themselves. This goes across the board and does not pertain solely to NFs.

absolutely.

i do think that there will be certain ways in which an NF relating to another NF will be different than how NTs relate to each other, or any other type. it's interesting to explore that, regardless of whether NFs are actually a minority or not.

I am convinced, however, that NFs are naturally more prone to cliquish behavior than are the other three temperaments.

it wouldn't really surprise me. i'm not a fan of the emo whine, but, at the same time, i think that for someone who IRL has often been marked as "weird" and who is really sensitive to people's opinions, it's easy to see why they might suddenly become cliquish with other people they stumble across who not only understand, but appreciate, their weirdness and sensitivity. it feels "safe". Fs in general tend to cluster together, also - we tend to support and reassure one another, which might seem cliquish to people who care less about emotional support and reassurance. plus NFs have a high representation of enneagram 4s.

not saying it's legitimate or good, just that i see reasons why it may be that way that other than NFs being full of themselves and/or having a martyr complex. which, no doubt, some NFs are and do.

and i actually even feel this way about some INFPs within the NF group. it's frustrating and annoying, and i've had to come to terms with understanding the same sort of reasons behind that phenomenon.

Yeah, agreed. If anything, if I had to guess how NFs could recognize each other through eye contact it would be from lack of immediate presence. Even when there's eye contact, there's often a feeling like the person is thinking about something else.

yeah!! they're kinda drifty. and when you're talking, sometimes they pause and look somewhere else, and then you get some bizarre out of the blue jump to a related subject. i feel like it's even more intense for me personally with Ni dom/aux. i've had to learn this with a Ni aux friend of mine. when we talk, she'll seem much more on a subject than me - my thoughts are more jumpy and scattered - but then suddenly she'll ask something out of the blue that seems to have nothing to do with anything. except its usually very related, and quite brilliant, and after she makes that initial statement or question, if i respond in an attentive/interested way, she'll explain it. but i notice that with some people who talk to her, they kind of interpret the jump as "wtf were you even listening to me?". but it's not that she's not listening, she just had some thought process running in the back of her mind the whole time, and it suddenly became relevant to mention for whatever reason. i think she's more obvious about it with me than with some other people - and i think that's the N part of the NF connection. we see that we can make these nutty seemingly unrelated jumps in conversation and the other person will easily follow, not because they're "smarter" or "quicker" or anything, but simply because they have a similar familiarity with thought in absentia.

Good description. I would add that this same feeling can be there also without eye contact. I don't know how to describe it, though. Maybe it's a bit like absent-mindedness without actually being absent-minded. If that makes any sense.

:yes:
 

Arclight

Permabanned
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
3,177
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
To me it's just a language thing. I'll know I am dealing with NF/SF people simply by the choice of words they use to explain and express things.
I know when I am dealing with an NF, when they can actually understand my thoughts and feelings. SFs are good at getting my feelings if not my thoughts. SF's when they don't understand my thoughts still respect them and enjoy the fact they may not be typical.

So I feel the connection is Through F more than S and N .. The communication is more an N thing.. but that usually cant be determined until an actual exchange of information takes place.

JMO
 

Vamp

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
579
MBTI Type
ENFP
OMG WHY IS THE WORLD SO MEAN TO US? SOB. BEING A MINORITY AUTOMATICALLY MAKES OUR LIVES HARDER AND THUS ENTITLES US TO THE RIGHT TO WHINE, WHINE, WHINE, AND WHINE SUM MOAR. THE MAJORITY ANTAGONIZES US AS A RULE, CUZ WE'RE THE SPECIAL LITTLE SNOWFLAKES OF THIS WORLD THAT NO ONE UNDERSTANDS. BOOHOO. WE'RE DAMN SPECIAL AND NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO TELL US OTHERWISE CUZ THEY'RE NOT ONE OF US. LET'S STICK THROUGH THIS CRUEL WORLD TOGETHER CUZ WE HAVE EVERYTHING SO MUCH HARDER THAN OTHERS CRAI CRAI CRAI. EVERYONE ELSE'S LIFE IS ALWAYS EASIER THAN OURS.

Lots of exaggerations there, but you get the idea.

Disclaimer: I am not anti-NF in any way; I am only criticizing certain immature NFs here. ^

That's where I am in my life right now. Let me work through it instead of throwing rocks (or trying to chide others into growing up RIGHT NOW because other people being at a different point in their lives somehow bothers you so much you have to snipe in a thread that has nothing to do with you). I'll be over it when I'm good and ready, thank you very much. Or I'll never be over it. You'll just have to look in another direction if "immaturity" bothers you. Or you know, wield your unhelpful hammer of truth and justice (mocking others) to all those you deem "immature" and beneath you (because you're never immature, hence the mocking all caps exaggeration of some peoples' genuine feelings of being left out).

Eh, I see MBTI as a pointless hindrance when it comes to understanding relations (partly because of "you're so immature *pointless mocking*"). It's only good for the individual. And at that, itt will only make you believe that you are odd because of the way it "types" people. You may be odd but why bother finding out why? It's a lot like the zodiac etc., it only puts up walls and attracts people who superstitious. But because it's "psychology" it also attracts the type that wants to try and correct "immature" behavior by being immature in return.
 

Quinlan

Intriguing....
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
3,004
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
9w1
I have a special ability to spot other SPs, it's not usually in the eyes though, it's usually in the trail of destruction and chaos in their wake. :yes:
 

copperfish17

New member
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
712
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
:rofl1:

I'M A SPECIAL LITTLE SNOWFLAKE LOVE MEEEE.

I LOVE YOUUUU. :wubbie:

Something just died inside me.

i do think that there will be certain ways in which an NF relating to another NF will be different than how NTs relate to each other, or any other type. it's interesting to explore that, regardless of whether NFs are actually a minority or not.

Agreed...

it wouldn't really surprise me. i'm not a fan of the emo whine, but, at the same time, i think that for someone who IRL has often been marked as "weird" and who is really sensitive to people's opinions, it's easy to see why they might suddenly become cliquish with other people they stumble across who not only understand, but appreciate, their weirdness and sensitivity. it feels "safe". Fs in general tend to cluster together, also - we tend to support and reassure one another, which might seem cliquish to people who care less about emotional support and reassurance. plus NFs have a high representation of enneagram 4s.

not saying it's legitimate or good, just that i see reasons why it may be that way that other than NFs being full of themselves and/or having a martyr complex. which, no doubt, some NFs are and do...

...and understood.

That's where I am in my life right now. Let me work through it instead of throwing rocks (or trying to chide others into growing up RIGHT NOW because other people being at a different point in their lives somehow bothers you so much you have to snipe in a thread that has nothing to do with you). I'll be over it when I'm good and ready, thank you very much. Or I'll never be over it. You'll just have to look in another direction if "immaturity" bothers you. Or you know, wield your unhelpful hammer of truth and justice (mocking others) to all those you deem "immature" and beneath you (because you're never immature, hence the mocking all caps exaggeration of some peoples' genuine feelings of being left out).

Eh, I see MBTI as a pointless hindrance when it comes to understanding relations (partly because of "you're so immature *pointless mocking*"). It's only good for the individual. And at that, it will only make you believe that you are odd because of the way it "types" people. You may be odd but why bother finding out why? It's a lot like the zodiac etc., it only puts up walls and attracts people who superstitious. But because it's "psychology" it also attracts the type that wants to try and correct "immature" behavior by being immature in return.

Boo hiss kitty. :smooch: If you haven't noticed yet, I'm just terribly fond of poking fun at people. My life is gonna be so depressing without all the idiots and immature people in this world to make fun of (note: I'm not trying to imply that you're an idiot/immature person here). In a sense, I can't help but turn everything into a joke - no matter how tragic or infuriating. I know I can be a bull in a China shop, but honestly I feel no remorse.

As for "[sniping] in a thread that has nothing to do with [me]," I have all the rights to contribute to this thread, and I think that I have made several valid points in my post. The threads I am NOT allowed to contribute to are those in the temperament-exclusive Private Forums. I believe you know this.

If you thought I would genuinely care about you/your life/your viewpoints/your "immaturity" then I would like to (in the politest way possible) ask you to think again. Your viewpoints do not bother or irritate me in the least. I do, however, find them interesting and somewhat funny in a dry sense.

Well, the only thing I have left to say to you now is... you have contributed to my understanding of (at least a certain kind of) people. Kudos to you! :)

As inclined as you may be to perceive next to everything I say as personal attacks, no sarcasm was intended in any part of this post.
 

Vamp

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
579
MBTI Type
ENFP
Boo hiss kitty. :smooch: If you haven't noticed yet, I'm just terribly fond of poking fun at people.

Yes, because it's my job to follow your every post on this board.


My life is gonna be so depressing without all the idiots and immature people in this world to make fun of (note: I'm not trying to imply that you're an idiot/immature person here). In a sense, I can't help but turn everything into a joke - no matter how tragic or infuriating. I know I can be a bull in a China shop, but honestly I feel no remorse.

As for "[sniping] in a thread that has nothing to do with [me]," I have all the rights to contribute to this thread, and I think that I have made several valid points in my post. The threads I am NOT allowed to contribute to are those in the temperament-exclusive Private Forums. I believe you know this.

If you thought I would genuinely care about you/your life/your viewpoints/your "immaturity" then I would like to (in the politest way possible) ask you to think again. Your viewpoints do not bother or irritate me in the least. I do, however, find them interesting and somewhat funny in a dry sense.

Well, the only thing I have left to say to you now is... you have contributed to my understanding of (at least a certain kind of) people. Kudos to you! :)

As inclined as you may be to perceive next to everything I say as personal attacks, no sarcasm was intended in any part of this post.

I turn everything into a joke when I know the person well. But I'm an introvert that way.
 

copperfish17

New member
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
712
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Yes, because it's my job to follow your every post on this board.

More like 'cause because we've butted heads in the past on this forum. I think it was on the one of the NT threads, but I'm not too sure.
 

Vamp

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
579
MBTI Type
ENFP
More like 'cause because we've butted heads in the past on this forum. I think it was on the one of the NT threads, but I'm not too sure.

Yeah I think so but still . ...I may not have a life but I'm not that bored. But I get it "it's not my problem, you should just KNOW".
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
It would be an excellent moment for me to cause more trouble, but the cat gave me a stern look and told me that maybe I should stop.

I think kitty is disappointed in me.
 

skylights

i love
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
7,756
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
my NTP family members and i are always misinterpreting each other as attacking one another when we're just trying to clarify things :/

Fi + Ti = :girlfight:
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I think one of the issues I have with this, too, is that I've had pretty strong intuitive almost "psychic" connections to SFs I am/have been close to...they can throw out and pick up "vibes" and maintain an almost spooky connection with others just like one would assume only an intuitive (and specifically an NF) would do. Of course, many people also say that kind of intuition is seperate from being an N intuitive in the MBTI sense, but I just wanted to mention this as well, if we're talking about special connections.
 

Stanton Moore

morose bourgeoisie
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
3,900
MBTI Type
INFP
TBH I don't think this whole "kinship" thing has to do with being an NF/being NFs. Universal tr00th: People tend to be more empathetic to people who are similar to themselves. This goes across the board and does not pertain solely to NFs. ^

I really hope that this is not true. I can't imagine only expression empathy for others because they are similar to me. I know lots of people, and frankly, their type is irrelevant to me. Sometimes someone needs help, so you help them.
 

Vamp

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
579
MBTI Type
ENFP
I really hope that this is not true. I can't imagine only expression empathy for others because they are similar to me. I know lots of people, and frankly, their type is irrelevant to me. Sometimes someone needs help, so you help them.

I don't think anyone said they only have empathy for other NFs. Some just interpreted the thread that way. While mocking those they misinterpreted.
 

Stanton Moore

morose bourgeoisie
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
3,900
MBTI Type
INFP
Copperfish said Universal tr00th: People tend to be more empathetic to people who are similar to themselves.
S/he made a definitive statement, that is neither a truth nor universal.
 

Vamp

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
579
MBTI Type
ENFP
Copperfish said Universal tr00th: People tend to be more empathetic to people who are similar to themselves.
S/he made a definitive statement, that is neither a truth nor universal.

Oh that. I thought you were talking about claims that NFs are a cliquish mob that dehumanizes anyone who isn't an NF (which is a projection when you couple it with the "universal truth" as put forth by Copperfish).
Hm. Copperfish over exposed in a very INTP fashion (I am always right. Whatever I deduce with my individual Te is a "universal truth").

There is a tiny bit of validity in that statement. It's not a universal truth but it's the reason why certain kidnapping are reported nationally (those that involve "America's Sweethearts") and others barely make a peep. Sad but it exists.
 

Southern Kross

Away with the fairies
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
2,910
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
I don't know. I can occasionally spot (and am drawn to) a NF before they speak but it can have more to do with clothing, demeanour and facial expressions than their eyes. I'm actually not all that good at eye contact in general nor am I all that people oriented when out of my element. If in a room full of strangers, I'm more likely to be staring absent-minded out the window or intrigued by a painting or poster on the wall. I might take the odd glance at others to try to suss them out but mostly I'm too uncomfortable and distracted by my thoughts and surroundings.
 

copperfish17

New member
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
712
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I really hope that this is not true. I can't imagine only expression empathy for others because they are similar to me. I know lots of people, and frankly, their type is irrelevant to me. Sometimes someone needs help, so you help them.

There is a difference between saying "people TEND to do this" and saying "people DEFINITELY do this." Correlation VS Causation. They are VERY different things.
Of course you can empathise with anyone on this planet. You are just a little bit more likely to empathize with those who are similar to you.

Would you find it easier to empathise with a fellow INFP or a ESTJ?

I'm guessing your issue with that statement is that it makes you sound like someone who is discriminating with your empathy. That isn't true. The statement only states that it is easier to understand the emotions of those whose emotional systems are similar to yours.

I don't think anyone said they only have empathy for other NFs. Some just interpreted the thread that way. While mocking those they misinterpreted.

I read over this thread again and can say with certainty that no one interpreted the thread that way, including myself. And I understood what you said throughout the thread perfectly fine (I'm not sure if I understand where you're coming from though). However, I'm afraid you have misinterpreted me for the most part. Mostly because you can't pick up on the subtle distinctions in language I make in my arguments.

Besides, this post only smacks of butthurt.

Oh that. I thought you were talking about claims that NFs are a cliquish mob that dehumanizes anyone who isn't an NF (which is a projection when you couple it with the "universal truth" as put forth by Copperfish).
Hm. Copperfish over exposed in a very INTP fashion (I am always right. Whatever I deduce with my individual Te is a "universal truth").

I wasn't insulting NFs as a whole. Those comments were directed at you and those who share your perceptions, which doesn't include all NFs.
I didn't deduce that tidbit with my individual Te. Take some time to research on that statement; I'm sure you can find lots of studies that support it. If you were wondering, I'm aware that saying it's a "universal truth" may be an exaggeration.

You're guilty of all the things you accuse INTPs of (passive-aggressiveness, belligerence, immaturity, lack of social graces etc.) and on top of that, incapability to understand nuances and make purposeful distinctions in language. Welcome to the world of inferior Fe... plus inferior Ti.
 

Vamp

New member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
579
MBTI Type
ENFP
There is a difference between saying "people TEND to do this" and saying "people DEFINITELY do this." Correlation VS Causation. They are VERY different things.
Of course you can empathise with anyone on this planet. You are just a little bit more likely to empathize with those who are similar to you.

Would you find it easier to empathise with a fellow INFP or a ESTJ?

I'm guessing your issue with that statement is that it makes you sound like someone who is discriminating with your empathy. That isn't true. The statement only states that it is easier to understand the emotions of those whose emotional systems are similar to yours.



I did not interpret the thread that way. And I understood what you said perfectly fine (I'm not sure if I understand where you're coming from though). In fact, I'm afraid you have misinterpreted me.



I wasn't insulting NFs as a whole. Those comments were directed at you and those who share your perceptions, which doesn't include all NFs.
I didn't deduce that tidbit with my individual Te. Take some time to research on that statement; I'm sure you can find lots of studies that support it.
If you were wondering, I'm aware that saying it's a "universal truth" may be an exaggeration.

You're guilty of all the things you accuse INTPs of (passive-aggressiveness, belligerence, immaturity, lack of social graces etc.) and on top of that, incapability to understand nuances and make purposeful distinctions in language. Welcome to the world of inferior Fe... plus inferior Ti.

You missed this part:

There is a tiny bit of validity in that statement. It's not a universal truth but it's the reason why certain kidnapping are reported nationally (those that involve "America's Sweethearts") and others barely make a peep. Sad but it exists.

But it doesn't support your brow beating so whatevs.

And I'm sure you consider everything in the last part of your post to be more "universal truth". lol
 

copperfish17

New member
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
712
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
You missed this part:



But it doesn't support your brow beating so whatevs.

I didn't miss it. I was objecting to your perception of INTPs (whatever INTPs deduce with their Te, they consider it the universal truth), not your understanding/validation of that statement.

If you understood that sentence, I can be sure you have more Ti than I'm giving you credit for right now.

And I'm sure you consider everything in the last part of your post to be more "universal truth". lol

How can that last part be a "universal" truth when I'm talking about my perceptions of a single individual?
 
Top