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[INFP] INFPs - How do you handle knowing so much?

Chill

New member
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
26
MBTI Type
INFP
I've been having this issue. I know too much of others' strengths and weaknesses, some of which they themselves are unaware of.

With people I'm close to, I can sense the self-conflicts they are having and even the results that could potentially come out of different courses of actions that are in their options.

Unfortunately, it is just not sensible for me to approach these people telling them what would be best for them.

Can anybody relate?

Of course, it is a well known fact that only we know what's best for ourselves. Nonetheless, with certain people who do not understand themselves intimately enough, I'm always tempted to lay out the entire situation for them to see and then let them decide what to do, but only after they have a clear picture of the situation they are in.

My questions are:
How do you balance between not appearing too aggressive and self-righteous in offering your two cents and allowing others to have their own journey of discovery? Where do you draw the line and if you do take action, how would you go about doing it?
 

tkae.

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Sep 4, 2010
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753
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INFP
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5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
How do you balance between not appearing too aggressive and self-righteous in offering your two cents and allowing others to have their own journey of discovery?

I give my opinions without giving reason, and then enjoy the fact that they think I'm psychic.

I've learned that telling them my "logic" for anything is just talking jibberish to them. The only way anyone will ever think I know what I'm talking about is when they see that I'm right. I'm wrong a lot, since humans are unpredictable (and follow "logic" instead of going by the emotions they I factor into the equation), but it just makes that much sweeter when I'm right and get to rub it in their face.

I never take action on what I know. I typically don't involve myself in their problems. I'll be there for them when the shit hits the fan, but I'm not gonna try to muscle my way into a situation and then have to (unsuccessfully) explain why I did what I did.

Where do you draw the line and if you do take action, how would you go about doing it?


If I do actually bother involving myself, it's usually because it's affecting me in some way. Like, if two of my friends are fighting, I'll involve myself in it because it indirectly involves me (and having them both drain me emotionally about it is actually involving me in a way, so...). Usually I'll play both sides in a different way, then get them together and get the hell out of there before they figure out I've played them both :laugh:

Example:

One friend is mad that another friend said something offensive to them, and the other friend said something offensive to them because they thought the first friend was doing them wrong in some way. I'll explain to the second friend (usually when I promise not to tell the first friend what the problem with the second friend is) that the first friend wasn't trying to hurt the second friend by doing what they were doing, and that they're sorry. Then I'll tell them that they hurt the first friend's feelings by what they said, which I told the first friend I wouldn't ever tell the second friend (oops? :laugh:)

Then I go back and tell the first friend that the second friend wants to apologize and that it was all just a big misunderstanding, and that they were upset because they'd thought the first friend was doing something to hurt them (which I might have told the second friend I wouldn't tell the first? I don't remember at this point :whistling:) which is why they said the thing that that first friend was hurt by, and that has both the first and second friend ready to apologize and talk about where the miscommunication happened.

And then by the time they realize that I've gone behind both of their backs by telling the other what they had asked me not to tell anyone else, I'm hopefully long gone :D


:workout:
 

Stanton Moore

morose bourgeoisie
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
3,900
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INFP
Just be careful about giving your opinion. It's not always welcome. the INFP tendancy to think they 'know better' often leads to broken bonds with friends and a reputation for arrogance.
 

Moiety

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Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,996
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Just be careful about giving your opinion. It's not always welcome. the INFP tendancy to think they 'know better' often leads to broken bonds with friends and a reputation for arrogance.

Yeah, it's fucked for NFs not being able to be vocal about their area of expertise (human nature) like other types are without having people giving you shit (since relationships are so personal a topic).


The way I go about it (even though I'm not an INFP I can relate) is asking people tough questions to make them think. Not expecting an answer...just asking.
 

FalseHeartDothKnow

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Nov 20, 2009
Messages
279
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INFP
The first thing to say is that I definitely don't think I know any better than anyone, apart from perhaps when it comes to decisions which directly affect only myself.
If I want to help a person through a problem (ie if they ask my advice) I'll try and think of every possible option and outcome. Even if I am chatting to someone for ages about it, I might give my personal opinion if asked, but I try my best to let them decide, and just be available for them to vent to in the meantime.
 

Snuggletron

Reptilian
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
2,224
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INFP
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10
if you're talking about the knee-jerk Fi tendencies then maybe. I recognized those early on and started to take more time to think about what it is I wanted to suggest before speaking it. When you think you know too much...you probably don't. And it is particularly embarrassing when someone points out a fatal flaw in your suggestion when you go in with that mindset. Sometimes you do just know things about others that people just dont seem to comment on or seem to miss. I don't know about you, but that kind of thing itches at me like mad if I know something others are ignorant to or not pointing out. So I sometimes still get off on making it known.
 

prplchknz

Well-known member
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Jun 11, 2007
Messages
34,397
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yupp
simple, pretend i know nothing and let them figure it out. and I usually do know nothing, so it works on two levels.
 

tortoise

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Aug 25, 2010
Messages
161
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ENFP
I've been having this issue. I know too much of others' strengths and weaknesses, some of which they themselves are unaware of.

With people I'm close to, I can sense the self-conflicts they are having and even the results that could potentially come out of different courses of actions that are in their options.

Unfortunately, it is just not sensible for me to approach these people telling them what would be best for them.

Can anybody relate?

Of course, it is a well known fact that only we know what's best for ourselves. Nonetheless, with certain people who do not understand themselves intimately enough, I'm always tempted to lay out the entire situation for them to see and then let them decide what to do, but only after they have a clear picture of the situation they are in.

My questions are:
How do you balance between not appearing too aggressive and self-righteous in offering your two cents and allowing others to have their own journey of discovery? Where do you draw the line and if you do take action, how would you go about doing it?

It's not just INFP, it's ENFP too. Well, this one anyway. I think I'm on the E/I boundary. Definitely E mostly, but sometimes I and I have to get away from people to recharge.

This is an important issue for NFP I believe. Very important.

Nathan the Prophet is perhaps a good model. He had something to tell King David but didn't go charging in but told a story in which David should have been able to see himself.

It is a burden 'seeing' so much. I am usually right but I know I can be wrong, so I hold back on what I've seen.

I have been on the receiving end of a highly intuitive person getting my mostly right but partly wrong and it's annoying ...
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
3,166
MBTI Type
INFP
People tend to be in trouble they want to be in. That's why I usually don't give advice. I do sometimes question their logic by asking questions so that they realize they are contradicting themselves. This needs the other person to be in a certain state, though. I can't do it if they aren't really listening and looking for someone to answer their problem.
 

Thalassa

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May 3, 2009
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25,183
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sx
I have this urge, too, and unfortunately I can be quite up front about it with certain people...and I've often found it's not effective to do so. People who have very little self-awareness may be offended or even laugh at you when you tell them what you've been observing about them over and over and over and over again...The people who need to hear it most are highly likely the people who will never listen to you, and being confrontational about it is a mistake, even when you see that they're hurting others. I'm starting to think the only time I should intercept is if the person is causing actual physical danger and I should call the cops or something. I'm not joking.

On the other hand, there are people who want your advice. Approaching the average person with minor problems to give unsolicited advice is a little rude, though. I'll freely give my opinion usually if A) the person asks for it or B) if the person is so far gone and harmful to others that I have a hard time NOT confronting them...however, as I've already addressed in the first paragraph, that's often not effective and just causes drama.

I think we can take a hint from INFJs in this department and try to only give advice when it is asked for, or lead by art rather than force.

I think making little comments and calm observations instead of giving direct advice might be more effective - things that will sink in slowly (maybe) over time that doesn't look like a presumptious confrontation.


Ofc, I'm eNFP, but I still relate to what you're saying.
 

tortoise

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Aug 25, 2010
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161
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ENFP
My INFJ ex-girlfriend was constantly giving people unsolicited advice!
 

JivinJeffJones

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Apr 25, 2007
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3,702
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INFP
I guess I tend to take an anthropologist's view on most people. I observe them in their natural habitat, doing the things they do, learn about them and I try not to interfere. Sometimes merely observing them interferes, but that's interesting too. And sometimes they want you to interfere, but who knows what sort of unintended ripple-effect that could have? So I observe and learn and empathize but try to keep my direct influence minimal. I think there are a few things at play there, but listing them would take too long.

I'm much more likely to 'interfere' on the internet than irl though because I'm aware that here I'm just one more anonymous voice among many.

ETA: I don't think I know "so much" anyway. I'm very prone to projecting and misreading correlation and causation. I also have difficulty judging scale.
 

OrangeAppled

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Mar 20, 2009
Messages
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sp/sx
People tend to be in trouble they want to be in. That's why I usually don't give advice. I do sometimes question their logic by asking questions so that they realize they are contradicting themselves. This needs the other person to be in a certain state, though. I can't do it if they aren't really listening and looking for someone to answer their problem.

Yeah, I relate to this. I may feel I see some problem looming based on some perception of the non-visible workings of people - I know shit is going to hit the fan soon. I foresee negative consequences based on the course they're choosing. Most of the time, a person is already determined to go that route & you won't be able to persuade them otherwise, so instead of involving myself, I keep clear of the drama.

If it's someone close to me, I may intervene with questions ("Are you sure this is the best approach?") to encourage them to reconsider or get a better understanding of why they're making that decision. More often than not, I just let it play out unless they directly ask me for input. It's their life to mess up & not my place to dole out unsolicited advice. Besides, I don't know always know that much, and there are times I am wrong because the whole picture was not visible to me. But yeah, I do shake my head & roll my eyes a lot when things do go bad as I predicted....I do that internally, I mean :tongue:.
 

Lauren

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Dec 7, 2008
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Yeah, I relate to this. I may feel I see some problem looming based on some perception of the non-visible workings of people - I know shit is going to hit the fan soon. I foresee negative consequences based on the course they're choosing. Most of the time, a person is already determined to go that route & you won't be able to persuade them otherwise, so instead of involving myself, I keep clear of the drama.

If it's someone close to me, I may intervene with questions ("Are you sure this is the best approach?") to encourage them to reconsider or get a better understanding of why they're making that decision. More often than not, I just let it play out unless they directly ask me for input. It's their life to mess up & not my place to dole out unsolicited advice. Besides, I don't know always know that much, and there are times I am wrong because the whole picture was not visible to me. But yeah, I do shake my head & roll my eyes a lot when things do go bad as I predicted....I do that internally, I mean :tongue:.

Yes to Nolla and OrangeAppled on this. That people tend to be in the situation they're in is very true. It's a learning experience for them, a path they need to take, and even if I can see the outcome, very often they cannot see that same outcome. If I were to tell them, they would likely brush it off. I'm very hands off with people, even when I'm very emotionally involved, because I strongly feel that an individual has to make their own decisions. And, it's a big AND, how do I know if I'm right? To tell them what I think might happen if they take a certain path is to disregard their decisions, what's good for them, on their own life path. I might feel I "know" but in reality, I might not know what is good for them. Only that person can make that decision. When someone gives me advice, I have already thought about it a great deal and made up my mind. It's often a case of "I'm in the situation I need to be in."
 

Rebe

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Nov 15, 2009
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4sop
I've been having this issue. I know too much of others' strengths and weaknesses, some of which they themselves are unaware of.

With people I'm close to, I can sense the self-conflicts they are having and even the results that could potentially come out of different courses of actions that are in their options.

Unfortunately, it is just not sensible for me to approach these people telling them what would be best for them.

Can anybody relate?

Of course, it is a well known fact that only we know what's best for ourselves. Nonetheless, with certain people who do not understand themselves intimately enough, I'm always tempted to lay out the entire situation for them to see and then let them decide what to do, but only after they have a clear picture of the situation they are in.

My questions are:
How do you balance between not appearing too aggressive and self-righteous in offering your two cents and allowing others to have their own journey of discovery? Where do you draw the line and if you do take action, how would you go about doing it?

Tough question. I go on the side of caution and respect other people's ... self-determination. This stems from my own desire. I hate it when people try to tell me what to do or give me their take on it. 1) I didn't ask for your advice or opinions. I have a rather strong know-it-all attitude. 2) If I need help, I will ask someone.

If the advice is extended to me gently without the other person giving me heavy expectations, force, aggression, I will respond much better. I butter things up for people. Sometimes I use way too much butter, other times I use absolutely no butter (but that's very rare). I myself need to be enraged for that to happen.

I think 'doing it gently' will soften the blow. Make sure you say that you are on their side and support them and care about them and that's why you're telling me so-so. Do it when it is important, but don't over-do it. Always let them come to you first. And if they are not coming and being really delusional and stupid, then you break it to them. No one likes to be told they're being stupid though so be careful who you are dealing with. Some people are more sensitive, others want a firmer approach.

ALSO, sometimes people just want someone to listen to them rant, not give them advice. It's hard because I always need to point something out and I am not good with patting someone on the back and going, there there but ... they just need to talk and they won't listen no matter what you say.
 

tibby

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Nov 22, 2008
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fool
I was just talking about this with ISFJ. I think it's very common, this business. We always seem to think we know better. I relate to this, too. I just think people need to find and learn it for themselves, that's the only way. I will be there for them and offer what I can to help, usually just my attention, presence, questions and suggestions, but ultimately the responsibility is on the individual.
 

Chill

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Jul 23, 2010
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26
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INFP
Thank you y'all for your take on this issue.

What I gather from everybody is that the most favourable approach would be to offer support/guidance in an indirect manner, innocently throwing in questions here and there to get them to really think for their own good? And if after giving my best shot, they still go down the problem-infused path (assuming my predictions are true), I should let it go and allow the entire drama to play out, whilst I stand by as part of the emergency rescue team sincerely offering help notwithstanding thinking in my head "Well, what did I tell ya?"?

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I see the most unfortunate of circumstances unfolding this way and I can foresee the embarrassment that they would feel which would be akin to rubbing salt into a wound. I wonder then, how do I respond to the ensuing embarrassment on their part? How do I tactfully remain in the picture, or is it really not for me to think about?

I do understand the concept of, "You can only control your own life and no one else's", yet, yet, with all the pieces I get about the whole picture, which I stumble upon, I need to seriously consider how I should best react in a worst case scenario.

Thank you all again for taking the time to share your thoughts on this.
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
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May 22, 2008
Messages
3,166
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Hmm... it's hard to tell without knowing any specifics... but if they are not going to ruin the rest of their lives with it or something, then it should be ok to try and keep discrete about advices. Maybe the question is, can you live with the fact that things do happen and you didn't do anything to stop it? And are the people you are talking about going to tolerate you telling them what to do? There are risks either way, I guess...
 

Eckhart

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???
I don't know, do I really know so much about other people? ^^

Nah, I just keep things for myself. If someone wishes my opinion, then he will get it, otherwise I won't force myself on someone usually. When I was younger I might have had a bit more problems with it.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
1,361
Yeah, it's fucked for NFs not being able to be vocal about their area of expertise (human nature) like other types are [able to be vocal about their own area of expertise] without having people giving you shit (since relationships are so personal a topic).




how do i handle it?

my expertise of knowledge, as sytpg calls it correctly.

i find it more interesting to aks myself: why exactly am i "handling" it. how much of my energy goes into handling it.

and how much good is created in the world, as a result of me handling it?

i intuit that the rules of depression apply. you know how depressed people are also ashamed and hide their depression, intuiting that at the root of depression is a conflict with other's interests, at least in the perception of others, therefore others won't help.

we will get some shit.

but how bad is that, compared to the price our "handling" costs us?

unless our talent is shit, the world would benefit from freeing it.

i find that the problem is, that i can't take shit verry well.

because i believe the shit.

i am not confident. not standing in the truth with both feet. only tapping into it with one foot.

if i could take shit, i would gain tremendously from being free and not having to handle myself, and the world would gain, despite being partially unaware of that gain.

this posting is probably insane. i love it.

okay, one thing that is not apparent from my thought chain: i belive that knowing is alive, it's wisdom and it's a lifeform, so if i would set it free, it would handle itself, not in the sense of supressing it self, but in a verry tricky and sensitive way. the tricky thing is what i can't emulate, if i (ego) insist on doing the handling, and the tricky thing is what i can't describe. you know how it makes a difference HOW you say something? it also makes a difference who you are. if you are your ego, you are not the wisdom. people want the wisdom but they feel your ego shoving it into their faces .... and that causes their ego to react, instead of causing their wisdom to take in yours. this problem can't be solved by handling, it requires a much deeper letting go.

yeah i am full of shit
 
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