[ENFP] Funniest description of ENFP I've read

[Aleksei]

Socionics Ni doesn't think in a straight line, at all; Ne does. Socionics Fi and Fe could also not be more different from MBTI Fi and Fe -- Fe in Socionics is about a fun and loose atmosphere where anything goes, whereas Fi is about everybody getting along and being all PC and shit. It is, in other words, fucking boring.

 

[KDude]

Ti and Fi are straight line (or rather, kind of one size fits all internal models for judgement). Ne is still Ne, like MBTI. I can see where you're getting them mixed up, because Fe is broad and inclusive in the social sense. They can almost seem as open minded, but it's the simple difference in how one is open minded in their perception or in their judging.

Fi has nothing to do with being PC. It's just more static (in the same sense that Ti is). If it was mixed with a sensor type (like ISFj), it may come out being more traditional... but that's their Perception coming into play. Don't ascribe specific judgement traits to Fi alone.

 

[Aleksei]

By PC I mean the attitude of going out of their way to not offend anybody, to be agreeable; rather than traditionalism. It's... offensive to me, as an Fe-valuer.

As for Ne and Ni, they are mostly the same as Ne and Ni in MBTI, but there are a few major differences. It's important to be careful of the wording in the Ni/Ne descriptions, they can deceive you.

Types that value Ne prefer to try out an opportunity rather than consider all possible ways in which it could not work out. They pick a few options and stick with them, in contrast to introverted intuition (Ni) types who pick one option and continue to doubt that option.

Basically, Ni is "I think I'll go with this... no, no, fuck it I'll go with that. Ah, but the first option was so much better! I'll go with that one. But..." and so on, and so forth. Ne gets an idea and follows through with it.

 

[KDude]

Fe is just actively trying to raise moods. The kind of people who warm others up in obvious ways. Fi is friendly, but it needs to connect with bonds from their internal/personal perspective. Fe is able to ignore that and be more proactive - it is extroverted in it's F. That's it! Nothing else. Nothing about PC-ness. Look at the terms in a generic way, instead of focusing on whatever specific hangups you have and projecting that globablly. If you want to think globally, then Ill say there are fucking billions of Fi types in the world and not all of them are "PC". Life isn't that simple.

 

[Vamp]

I've dealt with my fair share of chaos.. I think I'm just fed up (maybe temporarily.. except it hasn't been that temporary. I've lived in a way where I've kept more to myself for two years at least). And by chaos, I don't necessarily mean intellectually. That's cool. I just mean socially. Too much drama and people pointing guns in my face. I feel like if I just try to "live", some fucking disaster is bound to happen, and I'll either barely escape (as it usually happens) or end up dead on the street, miscalculating my way out of chaos, like some ESFP.

Sorry.. I'm probably not making any sense.

I. ..live for that stuff. I can admit that, now. A drama-free life is not the life for me. Drama-free is what I've been living for last 3 years, it feels like I'm in exile, in prison. ..uncomfortable (because I am not stimulated enough but that's a whole nother issue) and totally without meaning.

Well. ..I haven't been completely drama-free or else my intp friend wouldn't take jabs at my innate ability to "keep shit going" by saying, "I [herself] don't play games. What you see is what you get." What she doesn't understand is that I don't play games, either. I want it, I get it. I want drama (whether I know it or not), I create it; I'm volatile and I don't want to hide it to appease her sense of "honesty" (or whatever) because her sense of honesty is boring. Her "awake" looks a whole lot like my "asleep".

I'm rambling.. .. .

 

[skylights]

I AM MY OWN WHITE KNIGHT IN SHINING ARMOR AND I'LL BE YOURS TOO WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.

it always annoyed me in fairy tales when someone would save the princess. i wanted her to save her freaking self.

 

[KDude]

I'm rambling.. .. .

Cool enough. Just be careful

 

[Thalassa]

By PC I mean the attitude of going out of their way to not offend anybody, to be agreeable; rather than traditionalism. It's... offensive to me, as an Fe-valuer.

As for Ne and Ni, they are mostly the same as Ne and Ni in MBTI, but there are a few major differences. It's important to be careful of the wording in the Ni/Ne descriptions, they can deceive you.


Basically, Ni is "I think I'll go with this... no, no, fuck it I'll go with that. Ah, but the first option was so much better! I'll go with that one. But..." and so on, and so forth. Ne gets an idea and follows through with it.

You've just described Fe and Fi, and Ne and Ni, as completely the opposite of what they actually are.

 

[Aleksei]

You've just described Fe and Fi, and Ne and Ni, as completely the opposite of what they actually are.

That's because I'm describing Socionics functions, rather than MBTI. Which is why I keep slamming home the fact that THEY. ARE. NOT. THE. SAME. FUCKING. SYSTEM.

EDIT: Just so you don't assume I'm talking out of my ass, these are the definitions I'm talking about:

Extroverted ethics - Wikisocion

Types that value Fe like creating a visible atmosphere of camaraderie with other people. They enjoy a loose atmosphere where anything goes, where people don't have to watch too carefully what they say for fear of offending others. This means these types try not to be too thin-skinned, taking jokes with a grain of salt. However, they are very conscious of the fact that the way something is said is very important to how it will be received, so they tend to add emphasis, embellishments, and exaggerations here and there to keep people engaged. The best way to say something is highly dependent on the situation and the implied purpose of the exchange, so of course levity is not appropriate in some situations.
Even after explosive arguments, these types find it hard to hold grudges, and can tolerate people they in principle don't like, as long as the situation is primarily social and doesn't require too close contact. They prefer misgivings to be out in the open; they believe that the silent treatment is one of the worst things you can do to a person, and only aggravates the underlying problem.

Essentially Socionics Fe is about raising the moods. It wants to be in a loose, friendly, exciting and cheerful atmosphere where people don't watch what they say. The sheer exuberance of it is generally more suited to ExFPs (and even ExTPs -- JFK is widely agreed to have been either ENTP or ESTP and is the ENFj exemplar) than ExFJs.

Introverted ethics - Wikisocion

is generally associated with the ability to gain an implicit sense of the subjective 'distance' between two people, and make judgments based off of said thing.
Types with valued Fi strive to make and maintain close, personal relationships with their friends and family. They value sensitivity to others' feelings, and occasionally will make their innermost feelings and sentiments known in order to test the possibility of creating closeness with others.
Also, these types convey emotions in terms of how they were affected by something (such as "I did not like that"), rather than an extroverted ethics (Fe) approach that would describe the object itself without clear reference to the subject involved (such as "That sucked"). Much of their decisions are based on how they themselves, or others in relation to them personally, feel in contrast to considering how "the big picture" is affected (such as groups of people.)

Fi is more about emotional distance. It strives to make deep, personal emotional connections, and prefers an atmosphere of calm consensus where everyone's getting along to one of raucous cheer. Fi valuers tend to be annoyed by Fe's histrionic antics.

As for Ne/Ni, I already illustrated the differences previously.

 

[Thalassa]

That's because I'm describing Socionics functions, rather than MBTI. Which is why I keep slamming home the fact that THEY. ARE. NOT. THE. SAME. FUCKING. SYSTEM.

EDIT: Just so you don't assume I'm talking out of my ass, these are the definitions I'm talking about:

Extroverted ethics - Wikisocion


Essentially Socionics Fe is about raising the moods. It wants to be in a loose, friendly, exciting and cheerful atmosphere where people don't watch what they say. The sheer exuberance of it is generally more suited to ExFPs (and even ExTPs -- JFK is widely agreed to have been either ENTP or ESTP and is the ENFj exemplar) than ExFJs.

Introverted ethics - Wikisocion

Fi is more about emotional distance. It strives to make deep, personal emotional connections, and prefers an atmosphere of calm consensus where everyone's getting along to one of raucous cheer. Fi valuers tend to be annoyed by Fe's histrionic antics.

As for Ne/Ni, I already illustrated the differences previously.

It's still not as opposite as you're making it out to be, as KDude already pointed out. While the definitions aren't exactly the same, they aren't opposite, either.

 

[Aleksei]

They're not exact opposites, no, but they're not the same. Which is to be expected because they don't measure the same thing.

 

[Thalassa]

They're not exact opposites, no, but they're not the same. Which is to be expected because they don't measure the same thing.

I actually see a lot of similarity between Fi and Fe, with the exception of Fe being "anything goes" and Fi being more constrained and placid in the group environment. Everything else looks about the same as the MBTI definitions.

What I don't understand - as someone who is by MBTI function theory an eNFP, no doubt (Ne/Fi/Te/Si) - why in Socionics I always test as either ENFp or INFj, which are both Socionics Fi as well (I have Fi in MBTI too...). It really doesn't make any sense to say the functions are opposing. They simply cannot be.

 

[Aleksei]

I actually see a lot of similarity between Fi and Fe, with the exception of Fe being "anything goes" and Fi being more constrained and placid in the group environment. Everything else looks about the same as the MBTI definitions.

What I don't understand - as someone who is by MBTI function theory an eNFP, no doubt (Ne/Fi/Te/Si) - why in Socionics I always test as either ENFp or INFj, which are both Socionics Fi as well (I have Fi in MBTI too...). It really doesn't make any sense to say the functions are opposing. They simply cannot be.

They're not opposing. They're simply not parallel. Socionics functions measure interaction style, whereas MBTI functions measure cognitive attitude -- what you think, versus what comes out of your mouth. For example, I am an ESTJ ENFj; I love a raucous, cheerful atmosphere, and I'm quite good at creating it, but I tend to actually plan out what I'm gonna say for maximum impact, and in the process I usually force Ne to draw out zany ideas for me to use (my Ne is actually far weaker than it appears -- I'm not truly Ne dominant, I just really like Ne).

So Socionics functions and MBTI functions = apples and oranges.

Apples > oranges, incidentally.

I did peg you for an Fi-valuer, incidentally. I think you could be ESI though, just because you seem a bit too direct for EII.

 

[Thalassa]

They're not opposing. They're simply not parallel. Socionics functions measure interaction style, whereas MBTI functions measure cognitive attitude -- what you think, versus what comes out of your mouth. For example, I am an ESTJ ENFj; I love a raucous, cheerful atmosphere, and I'm quite good at creating it, but I tend to actually plan out what I'm gonna say for maximum impact, and in the process I usually force Ne to draw out zany ideas for me to use (my Ne is actually far weaker than it appears -- I'm not truly Ne dominant, I just really like Ne).

So Socionics functions and MBTI functions = apples and oranges.

Apples > oranges, incidentally.

I did peg you for an Fi-valuer, incidentally. I think you could be ESI though, just because you seem a bit too direct for EII.

What's ESI?

People IRL think I'm quiet and sweet, and the only time I become a motor-mouth is when I am comfortable and happy amongst friends, or if I'm under a great deal of stress. I'm not as confrontational in person AT ALL, and I'm actually not as sensitive as I appear to be on here, but I still feel empathy for suffering (like I love horror movies, but the world news upsets me). I can be VERY DIRECT IRL, but it's more in a situational necessity/cut the crap/self-defense sort of way...it doesn't appear on a daily basis, not by any stretch of the imagination...what I do on here is more like arguing for pleasure, arguing ideas...IRL I don't go around persuing arguments and many times I'll keep quiet just so I'll be left alone.

When people watched my most recent video they actually remarked that I seemed very calm and also when people met me in person they were a bit surprised that I'm not the way I seem here.

All in all, I like a lot of freedom, I hate structure, I like for people to be comfortable and informal...but then again, noise and chaos troubles me greatly, especially if it's an on-going thing. Noise and chaos is one thing at a party or in a night club, but it's completely unacceptable if it's in the place where I'm living.

 

[KDude]

ESI is ISFj (Fi-Se in Socionics though), and no, I don't think you're one. You're a Delta girl all the way

 

[Thalassa]

ESI is ISFj (Fi-Se in Socionics though), and no, I don't think you're one. You're a Delta girl all the way

Yeah, I don't think I'm a sensor, I just don't. I lived in a dream world until I was in my mid-teens, walked around with my head in a book, used to dress up in clothes from different time periods in history, was often quite lackadazical (in the sense of sharply paying attention to the things around me) and I'm definitely more balanced as an adult, I think I have better grasp of S now than I did ten or twenty years ago, but not enough to make me a sensor.

I also always test really high on N. Like the two letters I'm most sure of have always been NF. It's I/E and J/P that are more sketch.

 

[Thalassa]

ESI is ISFj (Fi-Se in Socionics though), and no, I don't think you're one. You're a Delta girl all the way

Although I will say Fi/Se is ISFP in MBTI, and it's really the only sensor type I would ever consider, so I'll give Aleksei that much. It's just that I would have to have extremely high Ni...

Here's this conversation again.

 

[OrangeAppled]

From my understanding of socionics, I find the function definitions to not correspond to MBTI's (which I see as closer to what Jung meant, but socionics fans claim the opposite). I find them different enough to MBTI that Fi in socionics is not something I identify with, especially in the dominant position. This, coming from a proud Fi flag waver ; MBTI Fi, Jung's Fi, is ME. Socionics Fi sounds like a blend of Fi & Fe. There's too much focus on social protocol, and I agree with Aleksei (never thought I'd say that ) that it sounds incredibly "proper" in a way that makes me blanch.

The IEI profile as a whole rings true for me, however, the Fe definition does not suit me either. The best overview of functions for me in socionics is ILI, which is humorous as it means a decent use of Te . I just don't think it's a type system that describes me well....

Incidentally, this ENFp description reminds me of me in some of its concept, but I am much more subtle. I come up with creative solutions when backed into a corner, so that I am much more resilient than other people I see go through similar things; and I can be a weird mix of rebellious & obedient (I call it a "quiet rebellion"). It really just depends on whether Fi is being "activated".

 

[KDude]

It's not social protocol. Try to get away from all of that stuff for a second, and just look at the terms Introverted and Extroverted.

Do you convey moods, influence from other people's emotional standpoint, generate liveliness (even in a subdued way), build any kind of overt, inviting displays in your behavior? Fe. Are you feelings a little more internal, under the surface and do you try to make more personal connections first? Fi.

That said, even if you aren't a feeler, and don't do either of those "well", the quadras are still broken down where even Ti or Te types value one of the F styles more.

Beta ESTps and ISTjs appreciate the INFp and ENFj Fe. No matter what, the entire quadra is given to a lot of boisterousness, theatricality, outward expressions, louder type of social situations, etc..

Alpha T types like ENTp and INTj aren't good at creating emotional situations themselves (although ENTps do reach out.. and indirectly need attention), but they appreciate their ESFj and ISFp friends who are more playful and relaxed.. the kind of people who create a lot of cozy Si-Fe parties or social situations. The Alpha quadra in general is lighthearted, likes some goofyness and laughter, group projects, and talking about pointless theorizing and movie tastes and art, and Ts appreciate a hug every once in awhile, etc..

Deltas and Gammas are different than Alpha and Beta for being more Fi valuing..

In the case of Deltas, their Fi is very philosophical and idealistic.. it seeks to make more serious close F connections in that manner. T types like ISTps, for example, generally don't loosen up in places where too many Betas or Alphas are (Fe), but they appreciate the closer, more in depth Fi connections that INFjs and ENFps bring up. The whole quadra has a certain air of quiet wisdom about it, be it F or T, is generally laid back, democratic, not overly excited, and yet practical in many ways too..

Gammas are a little more materialistic, Fi, but with more of an emphasis with Se.. the connections are serious in the sense that discussions may revolve more around career goals (Ni), or how to enact them (Te) (not that that has anything do with traditionalism though). Groups are generally smaller than other quadra groups (possibly because of that Se-Fi.. it's restricts more involvement without good reason. Sometimes there's a lot of "us vs them" mentality going on).


Anyways, I'm not even typed at the moment, so I have no place to talk. Just trying to point out that the difference between Fe/Fi is not as simple as "PC-ness".

 

[OrangeAppled]

The group thing throws me off too....I'm such a loner by nature that identifying a type through a group dynamic is almost impossible. I don't see myself in any of those or I see myself in all of them....it just depends on who I am with.