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[MBTI General] INFJs - Why we hold back

batumi

New member
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
177
MBTI Type
infj
Unlike Sensors, they don't have a problem visualising the pattern I show them, but they don't understand what's so special about this particular pattern that I should hold it above the other possible patterns.

Bingo. Thanks so much for that.
 

wedekit

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
694
MBTI Type
INFJ
The truth is that Ni inclines them to keep a part of themselves in reserve--to locate their true identity outside of the expectations and definitions of others. Unlike INTJs, however, their sense of the unexpressed is not impersonal and causal; it is intensely personal and oriented by emotional awareness. Their intuition takes them into psychological areas that other types are likely to keep at bay."

I think this is absolutely true. And one of the things I really notice about
myself is that I can take into myself the personhood of others. They share
deep feelings with me and I absorb them and it's like there is a piece of them
that becomes part of me.
Then they seem to just move on at times and leave that piece with me,
without really minding.
So I think it is self-protection on my part to hold back. I hope this makes
sense.

Yes, I understand what you mean. When I listen to people's problems, it's like they are taking off a chunk they can't handle and passing it on to me to hold. When people are done confiding with me I always feel like I understand all people even more, so I usually don't mind.

The "black box" part of myself that I hold back is where I place all the positive aspects of my life, as well as all my imagination and feelings. If am to help others I can't let their problems affect me in a negative way, so I think that the most logical solution is to hold back the parts of me that I wish to remain untouched. I have so many moments in my life that are burned into my heart that I share with no one, but it is still slightly mysterious to me why I choose not to share them. As I mentioned before, people often tell me that they feel like they don't know me even though they have for years. When I do share something personal with someone, they feel like they have met a whole new side of me when it has always been there.

I feel like it is my job to be the confidant for others, though. I can listen to anyone with a problem sincerely without judging them on what they tell me. We're all human and we all make mistakes. It is natural to me to do this kind of thing, so I feel that it is also natural for me to use this "power" for good. :yes:

Sometimes... it does become rough. I "counsel" numerous people with their problems, yet most of the time there is no one there to do the same for me.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
39
MBTI Type
INFJ
Sometimes... it does become rough. I "counsel" numerous people with their problems, yet most of the time there is no one there to do the same for me.

sigh... aint that the truth... i bet most infj's feel this way - and perhaps other introverted feelers as well...
 

ferrisbueller

New member
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
53
MBTI Type
ENFP
sigh... aint that the truth... i bet most infj's feel this way - and perhaps other introverted feelers as well...

I'm going to humbly recommend finding an ENFP for this role. I've always loved being there to support the INFJ's in my life. You guys make us chase a little bit to give you that support, and ENFP's enjoy that chase. Just an idea.
 

faith

New member
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
408
MBTI Type
INFJ
I'm going to humbly recommend finding an ENFP for this role. I've always loved being there to support the INFJ's in my life. You guys make us chase a little bit to give you that support, and ENFP's enjoy that chase. Just an idea.
It is important for INFJs to find someone who will be there for them in this way. At one time, I had an ENFP who filled the role for me. At another time, an ISFJ, and then an ENTP. Right now an INTP is doing the most superb job of all when it comes to listening and counseling and giving supportive feedback. Just saying--don't dispair if you don't have an ENFP! :)
 

Desert Flower

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Joined
Feb 12, 2008
Messages
67
In Please Understand Me, the INFJ description mentions that : The INFjs are also the most vulnerable of all types to the eruption of their own archtypal material. Do you think this is the underline reason that we hold our selves back? Or create an elaborate maze into get into our inner world? I often wonder what is it I'm really trying to hide from the world. But I feel like inside my mind and in my room there is this paradise that I can retreat to. However, if any one with bad intentions ever discovered it they could easily take a "bat" and just smash everything to pieces. And I would be destroyed. Even when I try to tap into these dark places in mind by journaling and being completely honest with myself it can be frightening. I usually end up not being able to sleep and having nightmares about never being deeply loved or understood. The dreams are very vivid and distressing. And also part of me holds back because I wonder what if I can take someone into this world? What if I show them everything that I am: all my hopes, ideals, fears, dreams, and intelligence but it still is not enough? What if after all of this they still betray me? Or its not enough for them? These are thoughts that make me want to keep my guard up.

But what if on the other hand, I am enough. That I am really a great person and people see in me more than I ever saw in my self. I am something "special" but i wasted my life holding back.
 

wedekit

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
694
MBTI Type
INFJ
In Please Understand Me, the INFJ description mentions that : The INFjs are also the most vulnerable of all types to the eruption of their own archtypal material. Do you think this is the underline reason that we hold our selves back? Or create an elaborate maze into get into our inner world? I often wonder what is it I'm really trying to hide from the world. But I feel like inside my mind and in my room there is this paradise that I can retreat to. However, if any one with bad intentions ever discovered it they could easily take a "bat" and just smash everything to pieces. And I would be destroyed. Even when I try to tap into these dark places in mind by journaling and being completely honest with myself it can be frightening. I usually end up not being able to sleep and having nightmares about never being deeply loved or understood. The dreams are very vivid and distressing. And also part of me holds back because I wonder what if I can take someone into this world? What if I show them everything that I am: all my hopes, ideals, fears, dreams, and intelligence but it still is not enough? What if after all of this they still betray me? Or its not enough for them? These are thoughts that make me want to keep my guard up.

But what if on the other hand, I am enough. That I am really a great person and people see in me more than I ever saw in my self. I am something "special" but i wasted my life holding back.

I live with the same kind of dilemma. I have this kind of fear of being rejected for what I am, so that definitely contributes to me holding back. Because of this, the main attribute I assign to my "ideal" love is someone who can understand all those things that I hold back and to unconditionally and uncritically understand. A soulmate?

"The INFjs are also the most vulnerable of all types to the eruption of their own archetypal material." - I've never understood this quote or had anyone give me a solid explanation of it. If someone could clarify it for me that would be awesome.
 

Desert Flower

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Feb 12, 2008
Messages
67
"Because of this, the main attribute I assign to my "ideal" love is someone who can understand all those things that I hold back and to unconditionally and uncritically understand. A soulmate?"

:yes:

Do you think it can mean that when we become completely disillusioned with the world that we start changing the way we use our functions? According to the book, all people have the same archetypes or instincts just the manner or order that we use them is different. So maybe it means we completely change our personality. Is that possible? I would think that doing that would lead to some type of mental break down.
 
R

RDF

Guest
"The INFjs are also the most vulnerable of all types to the eruption of their own archetypal material." - I've never understood this quote or had anyone give me a solid explanation of it. If someone could clarify it for me that would be awesome.

I haven't read the thread; I'll just respond to this one point.

In PUM II, Keirsey revised that passage to read: "Counselors [INFJs] make outstanding individual therapists who have a unique ability to get in touch with their patients' inner lives, though they are also the most vulnerable of all the types to the eruption of their own repressed thoughts and feelings.".

I take that to meant that they get caught by surprise when their own Superego or Id aspect comes bubbling up to the surface under stress. (See the thread http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/other-psychology-topics/4013-id-ego-super-ego.html ). I once saw an INFJ boss break into a rage and then almost instantly into tears and helplessness simply because one of his subordinates disagreed with him on how to handle a minor problem. (I assume the INFJ was severely stressed in his personal life, to have fallen apart so spectacularly and publicly over a minor problem.)

Anyway, I'm no expert on INFJs. But INFJs seem so reserved and "together," that it may be a big point of shame for them when they lose it under stress.

It also makes me doubt the practicability of such sentiments from an INFJ as "My soulmate should be able to understand everything about me." Frankly, I'm not sure even INFJs themselves really understand themselves all that well. They seem terribly caught by surprise and ashamed when their facade crumbles under stress.

Hence, I tend to take the position that it's healthy for all types to recognize and integrate their lesser functions (and become well-rounded, whole individuals), rather than just try to cling to their Dominant (and try to live up to an ideal but incomplete image of themselves).

Just my own opinion, of course. A controversial and not necessarily flattering opinion, I know. :)
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Anyway, I'm no expert on INFJs. But INFJs seem so reserved and "together," that it may be a big point of shame for them when they lose it under stress.

It also makes me doubt the practicability of such sentiments from an INFJ as "My soulmate should be able to understand everything about me." Frankly, I'm not sure even INFJs themselves really understand themselves all that well. They seem terribly caught by surprise and ashamed when their facade crumbles under stress.
:ohmy: Having a soulmate that was able to understand everything about me sounds really invasive and claustrophobic to me. Several years ago I had a mini-freak out because I realized that my husband and I had started kind of not really reading each other's thoughts, but kind of. It wasn't even him reading my thoughts. It was me knowing that he was thinking about getting carry-out spaghetti when it occurred to him that it was Tuesday. I knew and it scared me. I didn't even have to wonder or think about it. I worried that we were being absorbed or something. I'm used to it now and sometimes we joke about being the borg and it's funny and convenient.

Anyway, the last time my self-control failed in a spectacular way, it scared me and everyone who was there really, really badly. If only myself and the person I blew up at had been there, I would have still been freaked out my own level of emotion, but I wouldn't have felt bad otherwise. To say the person provoked me and deserved my response would be an understatement. The other people, unfortunately my kids and teenage brother, did not deserve to see that, though and I regret it deeply that they did.

I just had no idea I still harbored that much anger. I think Fe is kind of tricky that way. Sometimes it takes a trigger similar to whatever generated the original emotions in order to bring them to our consciousness. I don't know.

I may have said this earlier in the thread, but the level of emotion I feel on the inside- nobody wants to see that. Really. And it normally takes a lot out of me to get them out anyway, so everybody wins if I mostly keep them safely tucked inside where they belong.
 

Desert Flower

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Feb 12, 2008
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67
"I just had no idea I still harbored that much anger. I think Fe is kind of tricky that way. Sometimes it takes a trigger similar to whatever generated the original emotions in order to bring them to our consciousness."

Ahhh...yes I've experienced having "melt downs". Writing really helps me stay conscious of the stuff that I try to hide even from myself. But my emotions can still get triggered randomly at times.

"Hence, I tend to take the position that it's healthy for all types to recognize and integrate their lesser functions (and become well-rounded, whole individuals), rather than just try to cling to their Dominant (and try to live up to an ideal but incomplete image of themselves)."

How can a person do this? How do you actively use your lesser functions?
 

wedekit

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
694
MBTI Type
INFJ
I haven't read the thread; I'll just respond to this one point.

In PUM II, Keirsey revised that passage to read: "Counselors [INFJs] make outstanding individual therapists who have a unique ability to get in touch with their patients' inner lives, though they are also the most vulnerable of all the types to the eruption of their own repressed thoughts and feelings.".

I take that to meant that they get caught by surprise when their own Superego or Id aspect comes bubbling up to the surface under stress. (See the thread http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/other-psychology-topics/4013-id-ego-super-ego.html ). I once saw an INFJ boss break into a rage and then almost instantly into tears and helplessness simply because one of his subordinates disagreed with him on how to handle a minor problem. (I assume the INFJ was severely stressed in his personal life, to have fallen apart so spectacularly and publicly over a minor problem.)

Anyway, I'm no expert on INFJs. But INFJs seem so reserved and "together," that it may be a big point of shame for them when they lose it under stress.

It also makes me doubt the practicability of such sentiments from an INFJ as "My soulmate should be able to understand everything about me." Frankly, I'm not sure even INFJs themselves really understand themselves all that well. They seem terribly caught by surprise and ashamed when their facade crumbles under stress.

Hence, I tend to take the position that it's healthy for all types to recognize and integrate their lesser functions (and become well-rounded, whole individuals), rather than just try to cling to their Dominant (and try to live up to an ideal but incomplete image of themselves).

Just my own opinion, of course. A controversial and not necessarily flattering opinion, I know. :)

I'm afraid you read way too far into my desire for a soulmate, lol. Notice that I put "ideal" in quotations, which is basically my way of saying "fat chance" and "be careful what you wish for". This is just me dreaming big and not feeling guilty about it.

I also wouldn't say that I don't understand myself; but that's not to say I didn't have to go through trial and error.
 
R

RDF

Guest
I may have said this earlier in the thread, but the level of emotion I feel on the inside- nobody wants to see that. Really. And it normally takes a lot out of me to get them out anyway, so everybody wins if I mostly keep them safely tucked inside where they belong.

It wasn't that bad. It was just out of character. But once I saw that aspect of him, I simply integrated it into my concept of him, and it wasn't a problem for me anymore when he occasionally lost it a bit.

The main problem was with him and his running from that side of himself. He seemed to think that that part tainted him, when he would have done better to tap into it more often and get more competent at using it for effect. I.e., embrace a self-picture which includes some occasional histrionics.

Because in the end, that's who he was anyway, whether he liked it or not. The histrionics were occasionally going to come out sooner or later, no matter how hard he tried to keep them down. Might as well just own up to them, claim them, and put them to good use. :D
 
R

RDF

Guest
I'm afraid you read way too far into my desire for a soulmate, lol. Notice that I put "ideal" in quotations, which is basically my way of saying "fat chance" and "be careful what you wish for". This is just me dreaming big and not feeling guilty about it.

I also wouldn't say that I don't understand myself; but that's not to say I didn't have to go through trial and error.

Fair enough. I was talking about INFJs in general (not you specifically), based on what I've seen of them. See my post about my boss and my opinion that he was running from his histrionic side.
 

cafe

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
9,827
MBTI Type
INFJ
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9w1
It wasn't that bad. It was just out of character. But once I saw that aspect of him, I simply integrated it into my concept of him, and it wasn't a problem for me anymore when he occasionally lost it a bit.

The main problem was with him and his running from that side of himself. He seemed to think that that part tainted him, when he would have done better to tap into it more often and get more competent at using it for effect. I.e., embrace a self-picture which includes some occasional histrionics.

Because in the end, that's who he was anyway, whether he liked it or not. The histrionics were occasionally going to come out sooner or later, no matter how hard he tried to keep them down. Might as well just own up to them, claim them, and put them to good use. :D
That would be the ideal, but I'm not sure that I, at least, am capable of that. I love moderation and practice it in most areas of my life, but emotions? Does not seem to work that way at all. It's pretty much all or nothing. Sometimes you can vent it a little and keep it reasonable, but it's tricky and it's an art. Maybe it was different with him because it's harder for F guys, I don't know. I don't consider that my emotions taint me, but I do consider them private and that I should decide when, if, and how I share them, which is, for me, not very often and under a reasonable amount of control.
 
R

RDF

Guest
How can a person do this? How do you actively use your lesser functions?

See this thread: http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...461-how-can-inferior-functions-developed.html

Also, see my comments about my boss losing it occasionally.

Also, I realize that Fi-Doms (INFP, ISFP) kind of enjoy digging around in their hidden, darker aspects while other Dominants might not. But there's a book linked in the latter half of the "How can Inferior Functions Be Developed" thread that might help.
 

Desert Flower

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Feb 12, 2008
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One more question, don't we naturally move through our functions as we mature? As I get older, I'll start using more Introverted Thinking and Extroverted Sensing.
 
R

RDF

Guest
I don't consider that my emotions taint me, but I do consider them private and that I should decide when, if, and how I share them, which is, for me, not very often and under a reasonable amount of control.

You have a big family and a lot going on. I can understand where you need to look carefully at how your emotions affect others. That is, I can see where you would need to keep an even keel in order to maintain a secure environment for everyone who depends on you.

That particular outlook is precisely what makes INFJs such great leaders. :nice: But it may come at a price, in the sense that INFJs may end up being kind of haunted by something inside which can't be let out. (Just speculating here, based on the example of my boss and one or two other INFJ acquaintances.)

Oh well, I'll drop out of this thread. I'm not INFJ or an expert on INFJs, so I don't want to influence the discussion further.
 
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