[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Fe Door-Slam v. Te Bitch-Slap

[Salomé]

I think if the Te bitchslap is forceful enough, it will ensure the deployment of the Fe doorslam, perhaps never to be revisited.

I like to bitchslap and run. Best of both worlds.

 

[Thalassa]

I don't know any Te types who can do it.

I do.

I've also had this kamikaze version of Se that just picks fights with any sort of abusive Te (that isn't to say it's abusive in general). I usually understand them, but I don't like anyone who talks down or is condescending in an impersonal Te way. Especially if they don't show me some element of Se to listen to them ("back it up" basically. Show me why you can be that way. Give me some tangible reasons about the issue at hand on why I should start kissing ass. Otherwise, it's going to get ugly).

Depends on how intelligent the Te user is, and how rational they are actually being (is this person really using Te, or some Fi/Te fucked up combo?) I know Te users who I will allow to talk to me in that impersonal way because they're actually a person who thinks deeply and considers what they say before they say it, and it turns out that they are right or will show me something I didn't see before.

Then again, there are other Te users who are fucked up in the head who think they deserve dominance by right or might, who are perhaps poorly educated, mentally ill, drunk, etc. and I always fight back with that. That's usually some kind of Te/Fi vs. Fi/Te battle, though, and I kind of enjoy it...I think I enjoy it much more than a similar type of preposterous discussion with a Ti/Fe user. Ti talks down, too, you know. Just in a different way.

 

[KDude]

I do.



Depends on how intelligent the Te user is, and how rational they are actually being (is this person really using Te, or some Fi/Te fucked up combo?) I know Te users who I will allow to talk to me in that impersonal way because they're actually a person who thinks deeply and considers what they say before they say it, and it turns out that they are right or will show me something I didn't see before.

Then again, there are other Te users who are fucked up in the head who think they deserve dominance by right or might, who are perhaps poorly educated, mentally ill, drunk, etc. and I always fight back with that. That's usually some kind of Te/Fi vs. Fi/Te battle, though, and I kind of enjoy it...I think I enjoy it much more than a similar type of preposterous discussion with a Ti/Fe user. Ti talks down, too, you know. Just in a different way.

Agreed. I was saying earlier that I have Te friends/family.. I don't doubt their opinions. I especially love my dad for it, and another good ESTJ friend. They can handle a lot of stuff I don't even want to touch. But yeah, there are some that just come out of nowhere, without any clear reason or just for some personal agenda.

I'm not too much into preposterous discussion either - you're making me feel like an ESTP for saying that. I go straight to Se, because the first thing I notice about people who heavily rely on Te (sans civility) is they've obviously gone through life without enough Se flying in their face. Life is too reliable for them that way, so I almost consider it a service to screw with it. Maybe if life had gone differently for me, I'd rely on preposterous discussion to talk them down. But I know better (yet I am admittedly always scared to do this, but I end up doing it anyways. The first punch was terrifying, like losing my virginity. After 20 or so times, it still feels like losing my viriginity ).

I'm trying to consider whether it's an SP Se, or in INJs Se. It's always kind of stupid and uncalled for to some people (yet, in my way of seeing things, necessary).

[Extraverted Sensing
INFJs are twice blessed with clarity of vision, both internal and external. Just as they possess inner vision which is drawn to the forms of the unconscious, they also have external sensing perception which readily takes hold of worldly objects. Sensing, however, is the weakest of the INFJ's arsenal and the most vulnerable. INFJs, like their fellow intuitives, may be so absorbed in intuitive perceiving that they become oblivious to physical reality. The INFJ under stress may fall prey to various forms of immediate gratification. Awareness of extraverted sensing is probably the source of the "SP wannabe" side of INFJs. Many yearn to live spontaneously; it's not uncommon for INFJ to take on an SP (often ESTP) role.

As an inferior function, Se often leads INJs in either (or both) of two directions: to shun everything of a bodily nature as corrupt and animal (e.g. Immanuel Kant), or to crave "letting loose" and table-dancing or delivering some serious violence. In the grip of the inferior function, they try to make others feel weak by displays of physical power (or trying to get others to compare themselves with physically powerful people), but usually end up only making themselves feel like helpless bugs. "See how POWERFUL I am? See my ANIMAL MAGNETISM?" Some get into guns or karate, taking an off-kilter delight in fantasies of getting into a confrontation with someone and surprising the hell out of them with the damage they can do (see Taxi Driver).

 

[Thalassa]

Agreed. I was saying earlier that I have Te friends/family.. I don't doubt their opinions. I especially love my dad for it, and another good ESTJ friend. They can handle a lot of stuff I don't even want to touch. But yeah, there are some that just come out of nowhere, without any clear reason or just for some personal agenda.

Totally. I wonder if this happens most often with me and STJs...my ISTJ grandfather and I had a very difficult time seeing eye to eye when I was a teenager, because (and this is why I'm pretty damn sure I'm an N) as intelligent as he was, the way I thought about things ....completely escaped him. It could be just that he lacked emotional intelligence, I don't want to say that though because he was very nurturing and protective and loving and understanding toward me in his own weird little tertiary Fi way...I don't know, but in my world "because I said so" is not a good reason. It worked when I was eight. Not so much when I was eighteen.

Also, I noticed that I liked to subtley get under the skin of my old ESTJ boss because he was hella mean and heartless and anal about the stupidest details, and I would covertly press his buttons....I find myself doing this with a couple people in vent, as well who are that kind of ludicrous "right by might" TJ...one is ESTJ for sure, the other...well...

The funny thing is that when TJs talk to me or explain things to me I usually *do* respect them, and I don't get as upset by them as I do by NTPs, this even includes the beligerent TJs that like to poke a stick at.

I'm kind of a troll, really. lol. It's just that I can't stand it when people attempt to dominate with no real rationale behind it. I think the reason I prefer INTJs most of all is because they'll frequently earn your respect quietly with logic rather than trying to ram it down your throat.

 

[Chloe]

I never heard of this slaps and slams before this thread, very interesting. i definately use bitchslap a lot; actually, i must admit something slightly perverted and that's that, despite being sometimes sad and painful, i enjoy fighting and keep communicating while in fight and keep it harsh.
and it makes me so much better that in few hours i can laugh with that person.


but what is confusing that for ex. my INFP friend doesnt use bitchslap at all, only doorslam. (normally she has v low fe), she just cuts all communication. always.

 

[Froody Blue Gem]

Fe and te, for their respective users, affect the lens that person sees the world. xNFJs and xNTJS have the potential to have similarities and see eye to eye but that is where the dividing point begins imo. Many times, when people who fall under one of these types don't really have good experience with the other, it's the fe vs. te divide that's the culprit. Te usually focuses on logic more and is more blunt, caring about structure so users will not be afraid to put their foot down. I can see a sharp tongue if boundaries are intruded. With fe, there's a certain coldness that can come with the dark side of fe.

From my experience, we want to understand people, and a certain anxiety can come with fe reading into the emotional environment. But if our boundaries are overstepped or there is conflict with a person, the instinct is to push the person away. A fe auxillary might keep thoughts like this internalized and need time to process. If we were nothing but polite to that person, it may come as even more of a shock than what te can do. With te, you usually see the harshness coming but with fe, it builds up the and the person on the receiving end doesn't see it coming. I've been on the inflicting end mostly but there have been a few instances where I've been on the receiving end and not fun. xD

 

[Non_xsense]

As intp i'm an idiot with emotions , i was using door-slam to control people from an emotional point of view ...of course there is backfire .
Actually having a strong Fi made me not use my Fe at all .... interesting.

 

[Abcdenfp]

Fe and te, for their respective users, affect the lens that person sees the world. xNFJs and xNTJS have the potential to have similarities and see eye to eye but that is where the dividing point begins imo. Many times, when people who fall under one of these types don't really have good experience with the other, it's the fe vs. te divide that's the culprit. Te usually focuses on logic more and is more blunt, caring about structure so users will not be afraid to put their foot down. I can see a sharp tongue if boundaries are intruded. With fe, there's a certain coldness that can come with the dark side of fe. From my experience, we want to understand people, and a certain anxiety can come with fe reading into the emotional environment. But if our boundaries are overstepped or there is conflict with a person, the instinct is to push the person away. A fe auxillary might keep thoughts like this internalized and need time to process. If we were nothing but polite to that person, it may come as even more of a shock than what te can do. With te, you usually see the harshness coming but with fe, it builds up the and the person on the receiving end doesn't see it coming. I've been on the inflicting end mostly but there have been a few instances where I've been on the receiving end and not fun. xD

I find the door slam inflicts the most amount of pain. It's akin to a person enjoying the sun in all its glory the way it warms the body, the way it makes everything look brighter and then taking that person throwing then out in the cold and telling them will never bask in the sun light anymore.
Because I have seen the pain that a door slam inflict on persons I am very cognizant of it. I have to really be done with the person to do that now. After the last persons response (when I was much younger) I decided it was not right to inflict that pain on others unless it was really validated.

 

[Kanra Jest]

I don't like door slamming. I usually feel bad. Don't want to come off cruel. Dislike burning bridges.

But then ... I ghost. That's my strategy usually. Fade away from them. Slip, slip, and away. I may or may not come back.

I guess that's painful too.. never occurred to me.

I'm interested where ghosting could also derive from. Functionally.

 

[Non_xsense]

I don't like door slamming. I usually feel bad. Don't want to come off cruel. Dislike burning bridges.

But then ... I ghost. That's my strategy usually. Fade away from them. Slip, slip, and away. I may or may not come back.

I guess that's painful too.. never occurred to me.

I'm interested where ghosting could also derive from. Functionally.

Probabily using intuition and Fe+Ti , Te users aren't prone to do that at all or at least i never notice anyone doing it.
I will never gonna do it again ...

 

[Kanra Jest]

Probabily using intuition and Fe+Ti , Te users aren't prone to do that at all or at least i never notice anyone doing it.
I will never gonna do it again ...

Makes sense. I don't always like communicating my lack of ability to keep in touch very well, so it just kinda happens I fall off the map... Unless I'm deliberately asked of course. Then I usually will explain that I am an off and on person. I'll be be around, fall away, be around, fall away, back and forth as a more constant form of contact is tedious. Probably low Fe and high Ti.

 

[Red Memories]

My Te-bitch slap is more logical than my actual self. I have been told my rage is when I have occasionally become calloused and logical compared to normal over-emotional bubbliness of my normal demeanor. I find it weird I can become SO ENRAGED I actually just logically spew a report of events of how you've been a contradictory piece of shit. The problem is I am so naturally angry with the human race as a whole that I feel like my Te bitch slap has exposed itself more than it should sometimes. XD

 

[cascadeco]

I don't even know anymore what doorslamming is (and that's a rhetorical statement - I'm not looking for anyone to answer it, as I've participated in tons of previous threads so understand various iterations of it - my point is more that there are... various iterations of it, some imo 100% justified / I totally 'get it', others maybe more immature and more a product of being unable to address conflict in-the-moment or to even recognize whether something is a problem or can be tolerated (and allowing things to build up) or stand up for oneself (which.. ultimately for that person might mean a doorslam is actually the best bet, lol..).

Anyway - I think with time, I've become more 'ok' with the bitch-slap style, though I'm really not a fan of it either because I don't think venting bile at someone necessarily builds trust or well-being. But I get it more now in that I understand sometimes people just need to release something in the moment and it doesn't have to mean anything more foundational in the bigger picture (though it can).

Doorslam? Eh, usually I get it, like I said; usually the doorslammer is just so passive /doesn't assert or know their own boudaries and so sends out all sorts of 'cues' earlier on that the other person doesn't pick up on, so they end up futilely resorting to doorslamming when they can't take it anymore. So usually I get that, when things become unbalanced.

But like I said, I recognize there are all sorts of gray areas and levels of maturity when it comes to all of this, and someone could be hurt regardless of the approach. I thought [MENTION=15296]Sky[/MENTION]light 's summation earlier on was pretty accurate.