ThatsWhatHeSaid
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 11, 2007
- Messages
- 7,263
- MBTI Type
- INTP
- Enneagram
- 5w4
Don't do it!!! You have so much to post for!
Don't do it!!! You have so much to post for!
But seriously, how do I change my password?
I want to wrap this shit up and get on with my life.
OK, just changed my password.
PEACE, you FUCKERS!!!
HAVE A NICE LIFE.
I'm OUT.
An addict has certain needs. Is there a no wrong way to treat an addict? This isn't a debate about moral objectivity; it's about the understanding that certain medicines help relieve symptoms and certain medicines exacerbate them or just don't treat them at all.
Are we talking about venting here? Because I'm fine with venting. I'm less fine when someone is venting about me, TO me, because I can't detach from that situation and not take it personally. But yeah, if an ENFP friend needs to vent to me, I'm not going to tell them to calm down or just breathe or some such patronizing bs. I wouldn't necessarily want someone to vent to me multiple times a day or something, because that would drain me.
I'm not sure why people are having such a hard time understanding the OP. The issue here is about language, I think. Let me give you a uh, subpar example with no real content because I'm lifting from old (un)successful conversations and taking out the personal details
:steam:: blah blah blah
: well no, that's wrong.
:steam:: but it just feels like blah blah blah
: well that doesn't make sense. you have (x, y, and z) and so even being upset about it is pointless.
:steam:: ....but i do feel upset about it, because (a, b, and c)
: well alright but being upset about it is stupid.
:steam:::steam:
vs.
:steam:: blah blah blah
: well now, do you think that's really accurate? because maybe (x, y, z)?
:steam:: well yeah, but it feels like blah blah blah
: i'd imagine so.
:steam:: yeah, i dunno why but it just made me feel so blah blah blah because (a, b, and c)
: i know it did, but do you think maybe (d, e, or f)?
: yeah i know. that probably is what's best but i don't know it's just really upsetting and it's hard to think things through properly amongst all the inner turmoil.
: it's cool, you're ENFP
that's it! We're approaching our feelings of conflict and being upset by seeking outside stimulation in order to make sense of it all. Inside i'm so all over the place that i need to seek stability from outside, NOT within...at least not until later when I'm able to take all the info I've gathered from others and have cooled down enough to process it all.
Conversations like the first throw us into further turmoil because it's all criticism and no content; tough love in the form of "get over it" like this isn't usually helpful (there are exceptions, of course).
Conversations like the second, however, are much more constructive. I'm willing to see my lapses of judgment pointed out to me; hell most of the time it's because i WANT to see them but I can't so I'm seeking out others for an Ne-fest.
Like Little Linguist mentioned, my process of "thinking things through" is external and this is what I'm doing: seeking out other viewpoints in order to get the bigger picture. It's not about coddling, it's about needing some help seeing through the fog and this is how i do it. Telling me it might be helpful to think about it another way is helpful; telling me "you shouldn't feel upset" is useless because hello, I'm already upset!
Now of course there is a responsibility on the ENFPs part to walk away from a conversation that is agitating or not helpful; I have to from time to time or it will escalate things and yeah, I don't want that. It's not why I went into the conversation in the first place. but that's not what the OP is about: it's about the OTHER side of the issue and the ideal exchange between an upset ENFP and the lucky other
The idea is this, and this goes back to the OP. Just because you want to be heard or because you want to vent, doesn't mean you should. Deciding the best course of action requires that you appreciate the consequences of your course of action. With venting, for example, research shows that venting is not cathartic. It might make you feel better in the moment, but in the long run, it leaves you feeling more frustrated. If you want to feel better, then don't vent. Likewise, as I've argued, muting the community's objections so a poster can feel "heard" is a bad idea; even though it might feel good to one person in the short run, in the long run the community as well as the person suffer. Wonkavision took this for granted and made the same mistake you did, equating feels good immediately ("I want") with wise and intelligent.
why don't you just take a hiatus and come back after a while?
As to the topic, I will say that it would be wise for an ENFP to have a friend they can do this with, a friedn who understands. Experience has taught me not to do this in a group. Too many people are incapable, unwilling, unqualified and basically uncomfortable with dealing with *that* much intensity. And make no mistake, we are a frigging emo-bomb going off and not everyone knows how to deal with that. Which is natural. We cannot expect others to take care of us like that, just becoz it's something we naturally do with others. That's ludicrous. And to expect a group to do so is...well, setting yourself up for disaster.
My initial not-entirely-serious post seem to spawn this huge debate over the merits of venting. Good grief, that wasn't where I was going with that!
I'm not sure why people are having such a hard time understanding the OP. The issue here is about language, I think. Let me give you a uh, subpar example with no real content because I'm lifting from old (un)successful conversations and taking out the personal details
:steam:: blah blah blah
: well no, that's wrong.
:steam:: but it just feels like blah blah blah
: well that doesn't make sense. you have (x, y, and z) and so even being upset about it is pointless.
:steam:: ....but i do feel upset about it, because (a, b, and c)
: well alright but being upset about it is stupid.
:steam:::steam:
vs.
:steam:: blah blah blah
: well now, do you think that's really accurate? because maybe (x, y, z)?
:steam:: well yeah, but it feels like blah blah blah
: i'd imagine so.
:steam:: yeah, i dunno why but it just made me feel so blah blah blah because (a, b, and c)
: i know it did, but do you think maybe (d, e, or f)?
: yeah i know. that probably is what's best but i don't know it's just really upsetting and it's hard to think things through properly amongst all the inner turmoil.
: it's cool, you're ENFP
that's it! We're approaching our feelings of conflict and being upset by seeking outside stimulation in order to make sense of it all. Inside i'm so all over the place that i need to seek stability from outside, NOT within...at least not until later when I'm able to take all the info I've gathered from others and have cooled down enough to process it all.
Conversations like the first throw us into further turmoil because it's all criticism and no content; tough love in the form of "get over it" like this isn't usually helpful (there are exceptions, of course).
Conversations like the second, however, are much more constructive. I'm willing to see my lapses of judgment pointed out to me; hell most of the time it's because i WANT to see them but I can't so I'm seeking out others for an Ne-fest.
Like Little Linguist mentioned, my process of "thinking things through" is external and this is what I'm doing: seeking out other viewpoints in order to get the bigger picture. It's not about coddling, it's about needing some help seeing through the fog and this is how i do it. Telling me it might be helpful to think about it another way is helpful; telling me "you shouldn't feel upset" is useless because hello, I'm already upset!
Now of course there is a responsibility on the ENFPs part to walk away from a conversation that is agitating or not helpful; I have to from time to time or it will escalate things and yeah, I don't want that. It's not why I went into the conversation in the first place. but that's not what the OP is about: it's about the OTHER side of the issue and the ideal exchange between an upset ENFP and the lucky other
I don't think ENFPs are so unreasonable, merely that they get upset when others aren't willing to tolerate their opinions, just like other Fi-Te types.