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[ENFJ] ENFJs I have figured you out.

Thessaly

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Hmm. Good luck, but I honestly believe his behavior is not indicative of ENFJs, but of douchbags. I could be wrong however.

When I like someone, I really like that person. I have eyes for no other person. I don't play games and I don't toy with other people's emotions.

I still have my guard up and don't expect much of this. It's likely that he's pursuing me because I'm a lost cause now (long distance). I'm mainly just looking forward to being wooed all weekend long. I fully plan on sexually frustrating the hell out of him. I think I'll enjoy that part the most.
 

Thessaly

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A young ENFJ male.. could very easily get caught up in his own "desirability"
if he is just discovering for the 1st time how charming he actually is. Testosterone almost guarantees it. What he hasn't yet learned is how to be responsible about it. Like drinking.. He knows it feels good, so he does it.
It's addictive. Ahh but we all know once you cross the line it's all down hill.. Have one drink too many and that euphoria turns into a nightmare..Plus the hangover can last for days..

Our friend could just be a young ENFJ male, who has not yet been broken.. But he will be broken.. Someone, someday will beat him at his own game and then he will learn responsibility. He will learn that getting a buzz is not the same as getting pissed drunk and then he will hopefully, drink love responsibly.

It's possible I speak from experience.

And when did you mellow out?
 

Arclight

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And when did you mellow out?

I didn't really start to understand until my early 30's and have only really started to clue in to things this past year.

Don't get me wrong. I have never been a "player".. I have not purposely tried to hurt people. I have simply been selfish at times and ignoring of my own empathy. But negligence is still a crime.

I am only just beginning to realize that, with love comes GREAT responsibility. I am learning that if you are good at something, but irresponsible with it, you are dangerous.
 

Thessaly

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Thanks for sharing. I think my ENFJ is probably still in a immature stage. It's an interesting combination when someone is openly caring, but also negligent with other's feelings. I think I may discuss this more with him. I have no problem being rather direct and asking those hard questions.
 

OrangeAppled

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Thanks for sharing. I think my ENFJ is probably still in a immature stage. It's an interesting combination when someone is openly caring, but also negligent with other's feelings. I think I may discuss this more with him. I have no problem being rather direct and asking those hard questions.

Report back on how he managed to charm/weasel his way out of directly answering you :tongue:.

This guy sounds a lot like a couple of ENFJ guys I know. The more insecure they are, the more they surround themselves with a fan club of female friends to flirt with, and yet, none of them seem to be "player" types either. There's this loneliness that seeps through their facade of charm. I honestly think that's it's more like an insecure woman's mind set; they want attention & emotional connections ("friend-zoning" or whatever).
 

Thessaly

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I don't get it OA. Maybe you are right and he is just lonely and insecure. He comes off so damn confident though so it's baffling. And his female fan club just grows. It's ridiculous. There are so many girls who just swoon over him on facebook and I used to interact with him on it, but now I would consider myself pathetic for being a part of that circus.

He actually used to write an advice column about scoring women...bah...I dunno...I'm like House sometimes. I just want a good puzzle to solve. I think perhaps behind all the theater and smokescreens he may be just a normal guy...a normal guy who has become a little too enamored with strategic manipulation. It will be fun though to call him on all his crap :)
 

Arclight

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I don't get it OA. Maybe you are right and he is just lonely and insecure. He comes off so damn confident though so it's baffling. And his female fan club just grows. It's ridiculous. There are so many girls who just swoon over him on facebook and I used to interact with him on it, but now I would consider myself pathetic for being a part of that circus.

He actually used to write an advice column about scoring women...bah...I dunno...I'm like House sometimes. I just want a good puzzle to solve. I think perhaps behind all the theater and smokescreens he may be just a normal guy...a normal guy who has become a little too enamored with strategic manipulation. It will be fun though to call him on all his crap :)

You ever heard the expression.. "Just because I am not alone, it doesn't mean I am not lonely"

I find often find the more people actually around me, the lonelier I feel.
having a "fan club" of females just means that the ENFJ relates more to women than he does to men. This makes sense when you consider ENFJ is a very feminine type. ENFJ males are the rarest type of all according to Keiersy.

I might have a lot of female friends.. But That doesn't mean I have connected with all on the level I need to for it to be something more.
Every new friend I get that isn't something more.. just reminds me of how lonely I really am. There is just one more person I like who isn't the one.

More isn't merrier if all you want is one.

I don't see how any of this adds up to insecure.. just lonely.
 

OrangeAppled

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You ever heard the expression.. "Just because I am not alone, it doesn't mean I am not lonely"

I find often find the more people actually around me, the lonelier I feel.
having a "fan club" of females just means that the ENFJ relates more to women than he does to men. This makes sense when you consider ENFJ is a very feminine type. ENFJ males are the rarest type of all according to Keiersy.

I might have a lot of female friends.. But That doesn't mean I have connected with all on the level I need to for it to be something more.
Every new friend I get that isn't something more.. just reminds me of how lonely I really am. There is just one more person I like who isn't the one.

More isn't merrier if all you want is one.

I don't see how any of this adds up to insecure.. just lonely.

I understand the lonely in the middle of a crowd concept....

However, it also seems a matter of picky-ness or insecurity to me. Maybe I am projecting here. I know that I have rejected potential romantic interests because I can have too high standards (more like feeling-ish stuff than physical criteria), but I don't pursue those who actually interest me because I don't feel good enough for them or I see some other obstacle (probably an excuse to not be vulnerable). Unlike these ENFJ guys though, I don't find myself surrounded by admirers.

I wonder how these ENFJ men can be surrounded by a ton of pretty, smart, funny, cool, single women and not find ONE good enough. Is it that some are "too good" & you're scared to go for what you really want? Or are your standards just that ridiculously high? When I hear them complain about being single, I want to scream, "open your eyes!!!".
 

Arclight

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I understand the lonely in the middle of a crowd concept....

However, it also seems a matter of picky-ness or insecurity to me. Maybe I am projecting here. I know that I have rejected potential romantic interests because I can have too high standards (more like feeling-ish stuff than physical criteria), but I don't pursue those who actually interest me because I don't feel good enough for them or I see some other obstacle (probably an excuse to not be vulnerable). Unlike these ENFJ guys though, I don't find myself surrounded by admirers.

I wonder how these ENFJ men can be surrounded by a ton of pretty, smart, funny, cool, single women and not find ONE good enough. Is it that some are "too good" & you're scared to go for what you really want? Or are your standards just that ridiculously high? When I hear them complain about being single, I want to scream, "open your eyes!!!".

Most of them are "good" enough.. I made that mistake when I married my ex wife.
I ended saying she is a an awesome girl.. just not my girl at the end.

You might have a point with the maybe "they are too good for me" fear as well. I have hard time dealing with life when things are going well.
Love requires a lot of responsibility and If I am just beginning to realize that now.. then how irresponsible have I been my whole life?? and how much of is based off having a low self esteem? and how much of that low self esteem is the result of not being responsible??

Does behavior influence self esteem, or does self esteem influence behavior?

I.E. Does man beat his wife because he has a low self esteem, or does a man have a low self esteem because he beats his wife? Is it circular and self perpetuating? What came 1st?

Befuddling to say the least.
 

Thessaly

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I wonder how these ENFJ men can be surrounded by a ton of pretty, smart, funny, cool, single women and not find ONE good enough. Is it that some are "too good" & you're scared to go for what you really want? Or are your standards just that ridiculously high? When I hear them complain about being single, I want to scream, "open your eyes!!!".

Maybe those great girls don't understand and connect with them on the level they want? Perhaps they need someone who can figure them out and still like them for who they are. It's probably just the whole N minority/isolated feeling thing exasperated by the extraordinary amount of people they interact with.

I have often wondered if ENFJs feel disconnected despite the fact that they are such bubbly warm people creatures.
 

OrangeAppled

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Maybe those great girls don't understand and connect with them on the level they want? Perhaps they need someone who can figure them out and still like them for who they are. It's probably just the whole N minority/isolated feeling thing exasperated by the extraordinary amount of people they interact with.

I have often wondered if ENFJs feel disconnected despite the fact that they are such bubbly warm people creatures.

I think this is it...but I also notice they don't want to open up to be able to be understood & to really connect to others. They always divert the attention back to the other person. That's why people like them, because they take a personal interest in others, but they almost don't allow others to do the same with them.

One ENFJ male friend of mine (who I was/am not interested in romantically), did test the water with me as he had romantic interest, and I think it's because he had opened up to me so much & we do have a real connection. I suppose my lack of interest may have unfortunately reinforced some fears....but it was not the opening up that made me not have interest. It wouldn't have been there anyway.
 

Arclight

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Maybe those great girls don't understand and connect with them on the level they want? Perhaps they need someone who can figure them out and still like them for who they are. It's probably just the whole N minority/isolated feeling thing exasperated by the extraordinary amount of people they interact with.

I have often wondered if ENFJs feel disconnected despite the fact that they are such bubbly warm people creatures.

Exactly. The more people I know, the more I realize how lonely I really am.

Maybe this is where we get our bad names from. Because how many times have I heard "you're not here" ??

At some point we try anyway.. We are human and want to express affection and receive it like anyone else. So on some level we are settling and obviously the partner is going to catch this before we do.. Because on some level I think the ENFJ is resigned to never finding the "one".. so they go about adapting and overcoming and choosing one of those awesome girls that OA talked about. SO then what happens?

This thread is turning into the biggest epiphany I have ever had about myself, in regard to love in my life.

No wonder I got so defensive at 1st.
 

Thessaly

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People have epiphanies on here. It's interesting...you can learn more from interacting on these boards than just reading about MBTI.

OA you are right on about the diverting thing they do. How could they ever expect someone to understand them with the walls they surround themselves with? You have to be an Ne wizard to even begin peeling back the layers without their consent.

To be honest I've never had an ideal "the one" in my head so I cannot empathize with ENFJs there, but I do tend to hold people in general to ridiculous standards. I think dating NTs that have humbled my expectations of humanity has helped a lot with me accepting people for who they are. I can see how an INTP would be great for an ENFJ.
 

Arclight

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People have epiphanies on here. It's interesting...you can learn more from interacting on these boards than just reading about MBTI.

OA you are right on about the diverting thing they do. How could they ever expect someone to understand them with the walls they surround themselves with? You have to be an Ne wizard to even begin peeling back the layers without their consent.

To be honest I've never had an ideal "the one" in my head so I cannot empathize with ENFJs there, but I do tend to hold people in general to ridiculous standards. I think dating NTs that have humbled my expectations of humanity has helped a lot with me accepting people for who they are. I can see how an INTP would be great for an ENFJ.
I am not sure I have an ideal of what the "one" is either.. It only becomes apparent that no one is the "one".. or has been.. or wont accept it themselves.

I also think being love starved is not the same as being needy. I don't just need any attention. I want love, and love is deeper understanding.

INTP eh? Maybe you have a point. maybe NF/SF women are just too romantically idealistic like me? I do find myself at least very intrigued by a few INTP ladies. A few INTJs as well.
 

OrangeAppled

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I am not sure I have an ideal of what the "one" is either.. It only becomes apparent that no one is the "one".. or has been.. or wont accept it themselves.

I also think being love starved is not the same as being needy. I don't just need any attention. I want love, and love is deeper understanding.

"Won't accept it themselves" - is this referring to an unrequited love/interest?
I wonder sometimes if these ENFJs I know, and I'm thinking of 2 in particular, are just stuck on some girl who rejected them in the past. There is no one, because they found the one, but that woman is not interested in them & they can't get past it. I have suspicions, which amount to intuitions, no concrete evidence.

Also, how do you feel about the diverting concept? Is this a real thing? Do you do it? Do you do it without realizing it sometimes (of course, you'd have to realize it at some point to admit it)? Or is it just something people pin on ENFJs unfairly? Basically, how can someone acquire a deeper understanding if you don't allow them to? Are you blocking them because you've already ruled them out?
 

Thessaly

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NTs can be very soothing. I think I will end up with one. Check out this post for further NT-NF goodness.
 

Arclight

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"Won't accept it themselves" - is this referring to an unrequited love/interest?
I wonder sometimes if these ENFJs I know, and I'm thinking of 2 in particular, are just stuck on some girl who rejected them in the past. There is no one, because they found the one, but that woman is not interested in them & they can't get past it. I have suspicions, which amount to intuitions, no concrete evidence.

Also, how do you feel about the diverting concept? Is this a real thing? Do you do it? Do you do it without realizing it sometimes (of course, you'd have to realize it at some point to admit it)? Or is it just something people pin on ENFJs unfairly? Basically, how can someone acquire a deeper understanding if you don't allow them to? Are you blocking them because you've already ruled them out?

1st question.. Perhaps. Except that would create a paradox.. because how could she be the one if she rejected me??

Yes we are masters at diversion or at least I am.. INFJs are generally better, So maybe you want to ask them about that :laugh:

In my case it comes from a life time of watching people make a face of fear or disgust every time I open up for "real". I see it on here even.. people don't know how to take me sometimes. I freak some people right out. So I divert.. I accommodate, I do it the name of protecting us both.

I am sincere in my insincerity.
 

Arclight

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NTs can be very soothing. I think I will end up with one. Check out this post for further NT-NF goodness.

Hmm that didn't sound so soothing to me LOL.. But its very interesting that you use the word soothing..

Because someone who soothes me wins my heart..
 

Thessaly

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I can sort of see that. People only freak though because you probably maintain such an immaculate facade. I remember my ENFJ once confessing to me that he didn't care about taking part in my environmental rituals and I was like WHAAAAAAAAAAAAATTT??? If anyone else had said the same thing I would have shrugged.

What exactly is it that has freaked people out about you if you don't mind me asking?
 
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