[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Can ENFPs & ENFJs have great relationships?

[Ambee]

I knew when I replied that it was an old topic but my best ENFP and I decided to look into what other people had to say about these friendships, and so much of what we felt was echoed in what skylights said that I had to post. When I was reading her post, I heard it in my ENFP's voice.

I thought it might be helpful to someone to share another success story, especially since we find this relationship so rewarding. Before we met everyone told us how similar we were, and we couldn't deny it, and the longer we've known each other and the more we've come to understand our difference, the more we've turned into two sides of the same coin. We completely embrace our "twin"ness. (The fact that our voices sound identical when we're excited/happy - to the point our signficant others, parents, close mutual friends and even ourselves when we once listened to a video of us both talking can't tell us apart - helped us come to that conclusion as well haha.)

She was just telling me yesterday after we replied here that she wishes she could help other people find their twin - a person they can tell anyone to and they know will understand but is just different enough to balance out each other's more extreme tendencies. Besides making me want to cry, it definitely reinforced the fact that I want to post here and say try to make this work! It can be an amazing thing!

I can say for sure our biggest road block was dealing with each other's stress response. When I was going through a break up with a friend of hers, I was in obsess and fix it mode and she was hearing from both sides the stress, which sent her into panic and flail and run mode. It was overwhelming to us both and we ended up not talking for a couple of months until one of our mutual friends yelled at my ENFP to stop running from the situation and I had exhausted myself from obsessing and had finally come to except it. We never had a situation like that again, but I was afraid I'd lost her forever over being sad about a break up and that was scary - it was something so small. But we get each other now, though, so we know when we can come to each other crying and we know how to make suggestions for calming down that are a blend of our two ideas. Like I said, we're pretty much each other's greatest strength at this point.

I would love to hear more about what your ENFJ - and any ENFJs have to think. Most of what I read online are from ENFP perspectives.

 

[kyuuei]

My personal experience.

Friendship wise -- There are few that make better friends than ENFJ. They're so sincere.. they have a bazillion qualities that rock about them. they're just as flexible as I am, but more understanding and patient. The details about the friendship are more concrete with them.. they seem to remember the small details about it that I frequently forget. I love them in friendships.

Relationship wise -- I don't know how well we'd work out. Granted, my personal experience has entirely been with one ENFJ WANTING to date me, but not being allowed to, so I haven't ruled them out at all or anything.. but so far, the experience has been that while they knew exactly what to say to make me happy at the time, their actions more reflected what they wanted than what they told me. always a bad idea.

 

[Neutralpov]

My personal experience.
so far, the experience has been that while they knew exactly what to say to make me happy at the time, their actions more reflected what they wanted than what they told me. always a bad idea.

explain this? didn't register...? sounds like I might need to understand it though

 

[skylights]

^ not to speak for kyuuei, but i have felt a similar thing in the past.

for example, what my ENFJ friend tells me is almost always true, but not necessarily always the whole story. she tends to leave important details out that make me think something different is going on, when it's particularly beneficial for her to do so. on one hand, there's no reason she should have to tell me everything, but on the other, it's a form of intentional deception, because she is well aware of what i conclusions i will draw based on the information she gives me. but then her actions will not match up, and i will realize that something different must be going on. though she has used it effectively to protect me from myself, which was actually sort of brilliant on her part.

I knew when I replied that it was an old topic but my best ENFP and I decided to look into what other people had to say about these friendships, and so much of what we felt was echoed in what skylights said that I had to post. When I was reading her post, I heard it in my ENFP's voice.

I can say for sure our biggest road block was dealing with each other's stress response. When I was going through a break up with a friend of hers, I was in obsess and fix it mode and she was hearing from both sides the stress, which sent her into panic and flail and run mode.

that's really funny, i totally agree that stress response has been the hardest thing to overcome, but with my ENFJ friend and me it's basically the opposite. i'm obsess and fix it and she needs to get away and think about it, and they clash. enneagram differences, i figure.

i agree that we need more ENFJ perspectives on this... ENFPs like to blab about themselves online plenty... would love more ENFJ sharing

 

[Esoteric Wench]

...what my ENFJ friend tells me is almost always true, but not necessarily always the whole story. she tends to leave important details out that make me think something different is going on, when it's particularly beneficial for her to do so. on one hand, there's no reason she should have to tell me everything, but on the other, it's a form of intentional deception, because she is well aware of what i conclusions i will draw based on the information she gives me. but then her actions will not match up, and i will realize that something different must be going on. though she has used it effectively to protect me from myself, which was actually sort of brilliant on her part.

I've gotta tell you that I've noticed this in my dealings with ENFJs. From a positive perspective, the ENFJ seems to have an almost genius ability to evoke whatever desired emotional reaction they want from their conversation partner. But from a more negative perspective this (at its worst) falls into the category of deception or at least outright manipulation.

I think of it as that ENFJs always have an agenda they're working toward and they are able to (brilliantly) shepherd the people around them toward whatever endgame the ENFJ has. Used responsibly this is a gift that ENFJs can leverage. Used irresponsibly, these same skills can be used to manipulate and hurt other people.

ENFPs also have this same skill set and are not above using it. However, I think the difference is that an ENFP's Fi effects how his/her people shepherding skills play out. In other words, I might be able to shepherd people toward an end result, but as a P, I don't always have an end result in mind to shepherd them toward. Also, I wouldn't want another person to act in a way that might be incompatible with their essence. (Voila Fi.) Thus, there is a large part of me that would be disappointed in myself if I thought I were guiding people toward a specific end game.

^^^^^^
This is one of the things about ENFJs that offends my Fi sensibilities. However, I think this thread has really helped me see how ENFJs and ENFPs can find a common ground. I think Skylights was right (in her earlier post) that a great starting point in ENFP/ENFJ relations is how both ENFPs and ENFJs can read people so well. They definitely have this in common... even if what they do with this skill is very different.

 

[Glycerine]

I've gotta tell you that I've noticed this in my dealings with ENFJs. From a positive perspective, the ENFJ seems to have an almost genius ability to evoke whatever desired emotional reaction they want from their conversation partner. But from a more negative perspective this (at its worst) falls into the category of deception or at least outright manipulation.

I think of it as that ENFJs always have an agenda they're working toward and they are able to (brilliantly) shepherd the people around them toward whatever endgame the ENFJ has. Used responsibly this is a gift that ENFJs can leverage. Used irresponsibly, these same skills can be used to manipulate and hurt other people.

ENFPs also have this same skill set and are not above using it. However, I think the difference is that an ENFP's Fi effects how his/her people shepherding skills play out. In other words, I might be able to shepherd people toward an end result, but as a P, I don't always have an end result in mind to shepherd them toward. Also, I wouldn't want another person to act in a way that might be incompatible with their essence. (Voila Fi.) Thus, there is a large part of me that would be disappointed in myself if I thought I were guiding people toward a specific end game.

^^^^^^
This is one of the things about ENFJs that offends my Fi sensibilities. However, I think this thread has really helped me see how ENFJs and ENFPs can find a common ground. I think Skylights was right (in her earlier post) that a great starting point in ENFP/ENFJ relations is how both ENFPs and ENFJs can read people so well. They definitely have this in common... even if what they do with this skill is very different.

Guilty, I have been known to do and say things to evoke certain reactions. Within reason and having a conscious, I usually know how to get what I really want from people. However, please don't mistake that for immorality because I do have strongly held values regardless of Fe or Fi like be authentic, honest, be logical, and individuals are free to do whatever within reason.

 

[skylights]

yeah, it'd be a serious tossup between my ENFJ friend and i as to who's more ethical. we both are and aren't, in different ways. i'm sure at least some of you guys have heard me say this before, but my Fi is relatively Fe as far as things go, and i tend to see a huge amount of similarities between the two. anyway, i'm more of a rulebreaker; she's more of a manipulator. she's more of an omitter; i'm more of a deceiver. she's more responsible; i'm warmer. i'm quicker to extend a hand, but she's more dedicated in following through. we both will tear you down if you insult us, and/or if you hurt someone we love. we both tend to have a very humanistic outlook in a broad sense while having a more "realistic" sense of morals in the day-to-day. we're both total NFs, but i would not tend to call either of us idealists.

my point being, we're really very much alike, just in a mirrored sort of way.

Also, I wouldn't want another person to act in a way that might be incompatible with their essence.

i know, i feel this too. but i think we have to remember that ENFJs don't find their introverted "core" in Fi, so what seems like directing someone to our Fi actually may very well not be an imposition on them in JePi terms. we tend to bristle at what seems like internal direction to us, but they don't have introverted Judgment, so their "essence" is elsewhere from ours, and is not threatened by the same things we find threatening. by the same token we have to realize when we are stepping on their toes in Je terms, that our Fi does not so readily understand...

 

[Amargith]

I want an ENFJ for a bff now. Seriously

I tend to enjoy the charm and wit of ENFJs a lot. They also tend to be easy to have around as a back up. What I mean is...it is fun to be in a group and not have to keep an eye on the dynamics going on or worry about getting a head ache from people clashing. Or for that matter, to just be the observer for once instead of be on stage. ENFJs do that with ease and most also will gladly share the spotlight, especially if you can band together for maximum effect. My close group of friends would infinitely benefit from having an ENFJ in it. It's just me with a bunch of introverts atm. Organization is a frigging , and eventually every damned time between the INTJs and the ISFJs, as is initiative taking on a the social front. Lastly, getting all those people to get along and not bottle shit up, is a frigging nightmare. The group is too big for me to manage myself without getting a splitting head ache. I'm tempted to almost hire an ENFJ manager for it

 

[Esoteric Wench]

I just wanted to give everyone an update. A couple of days ago, I posted that I had an ENFJ acquaintance coming over to my house on Friday evening. I was going to remember what I learned in this thread when I interacted with him and see what happened.

For those who may not know... I'd been burned by an immature ENFJ and it had put a bad taste in my mouth for the entire type... which I reluctantly admitted was unfair to ENFJs. One of the reasons I started this thread was that I wanted to figure out how to find common ground with the ENFJs in my acquaintance. I knew it was unfair to categorically reject an entire personality type, but I didn't know how to overcome some of the innate obstacles of ENFJ/ENFP interactions.

Well, I wanted to report that my ENFJ and I had a GREAT time Friday night. We laughed and laughed together. He and I had so much in common and it was just like everyone said. We both could read people soooo well. It was nice to step back and observe while he stood in the spotlight. And, I was able to recognize that he was a very nice and ethical person. I was able to correctly read his Fe behavior for what it was and not let my Fi misinterpret his intentions. So thanks to EVERYONE who posted their thoughts on this thread!

I feel like I confirmed my initial observation that ENFJs/ENFPs did have a natural tendency to let their Fe and Fi rub each other the wrong way. But much more important was that I learned how to correctly read an ENFJs' Fe behavior. I learned that I could see past the biases of my own type (which is Fi driven) and appreciate the strengths of the Fe perspective. This has been a wonderfully enlightening experience. And, I hope that my new ENFJ friend and I can become very good friends.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

I feel like I confirmed my initial observation that ENFJs/ENFPs did have a natural tendency to let their Fe and Fi rub each other the wrong way. But much more important was that I learned how to correctly read an ENFJs' Fe behavior. I learned that I could see past the biases of my own type (which is Fi driven) and appreciate the strengths of the Fe perspective. This has been a wonderfully enlightening experience. And, I hope that my new ENFJ friend and I can become very good friends.

Excellent news! EW!

I happened to know a pair of ENFP and ENFJ in real life and they seem to be perfect for each other! (though they're co-workers, both met from workplace).

We laughed and laughed together. He and I had so much in common and it was just like everyone said.

This caught my attention. I know ENFPs can be great at lightening up the atmosphere and a great joker, though it seems to me that ENFJ are better at this with such little efforts such as laughter! They're both good conversationalist but it seems to me that I can connect more with ENFJ as they have this uncanned ability of focusing entirely on you during any types of conversation.

Just adding my 2 cents here.

 

[Crescent Fresh]

I wonder who dominates the conversation between the two?

In my experience, ENFJ seems to dominate the atmosphere with lots of laughters while ENFP tends to enjoy giving the spotlight to ENFJ by talking less.

But I must admit whenever three of us hang out together, I had the most fun even just by watching how they interact with each other.

 

[skylights]

if there's a group, ENFJ, definitely. if it's one-on-one then i find it's pretty equal. i tend to babble/think aloud more.

i find that there is always lots of laughter regardless

 

[Glycerine]

ENFPs seem to dominate IME and I am more likely to listen (I am reconsidering INFJ). lol

 

[Ambee]

I just wanted to give everyone an update. A couple of days ago, I posted that I had an ENFJ acquaintance coming over to my house on Friday evening. I was going to remember what I learned in this thread when I interacted with him and see what happened.

For those who may not know... I'd been burned by an immature ENFJ and it had put a bad taste in my mouth for the entire type... which I reluctantly admitted was unfair to ENFJs. One of the reasons I started this thread was that I wanted to figure out how to find common ground with the ENFJs in my acquaintance. I knew it was unfair to categorically reject an entire personality type, but I didn't know how to overcome some of the innate obstacles of ENFJ/ENFP interactions.

Well, I wanted to report that my ENFJ and I had a GREAT time Friday night. We laughed and laughed together. He and I had so much in common and it was just like everyone said. We both could read people soooo well. It was nice to step back and observe while he stood in the spotlight. And, I was able to recognize that he was a very nice and ethical person. I was able to correctly read his Fe behavior for what it was and not let my Fi misinterpret his intentions. So thanks to EVERYONE who posted their thoughts on this thread!

I feel like I confirmed my initial observation that ENFJs/ENFPs did have a natural tendency to let their Fe and Fi rub each other the wrong way. But much more important was that I learned how to correctly read an ENFJs' Fe behavior. I learned that I could see past the biases of my own type (which is Fi driven) and appreciate the strengths of the Fe perspective. This has been a wonderfully enlightening experience. And, I hope that my new ENFJ friend and I can become very good friends.

I was so happy to read this! I think if an ENFP and an ENFJ get to know each other enough that they know how to analyze the fi/fe behavior properly, than it's pretty smooth sailing.

Excellent news! EW!

I happened to know a pair of ENFP and ENFJ in real life and they seem to be perfect for each other! (though they're co-workers, both met from workplace).







This caught my attention. I know ENFPs can be great at lightening up the atmosphere and a great joker, though it seems to me that ENFJ are better at this with such little efforts such as laughter! They're both good conversationalist but it seems to me that I can connect more with ENFJ as they have this uncanned ability of focusing entirely on you during any types of conversation.

Just adding my 2 cents here.

I know my ENFP tends to be good at the big jokes. She can say something that is just - so hilarious that it fills up a room. It gets everyone laughing. She's a larger than life joker at times. I tend to make more small, little quips or escalate a joke rather than start a big one myself (though we both have times that we do the opposite, obviously). I think that's why I like us better in a room together - she gets everyone laughing, I take the joke to the next level, and then we both keep riffing until no one can breathe. It's an amazing feeling when we accomplish it! Haha

 

[Ambee]

if there's a group, ENFJ, definitely. if it's one-on-one then i find it's pretty equal. i tend to babble/think aloud more.

i find that there is always lots of laughter regardless

In response to your post earlier, I think it's funny that you're the one that's more likely to need to fix while your ENFJ is more flail-y. It is such a little different. My ENFP gets panicky and wants to flee even though she would love nothing more than to fix the problem. But if she doesn't know how to fix it off the top of her head, she just panics and flails. Flailing is definitely her word. She flails a lot lol.

I just IM'd me ENFP to ask her for her opinion on the who chats more matter. She said that she thinks it depends on the situation but in most cases is a complete wash. One-on-one, we're both great listeners and robust talkers. Some days one talks more than the other, but I can't say there's any difference.

In a party setting, it's a similar situation. As long as we know one person, we both happily chat away. I think we're both excellent at sharing the spotlight and I've never felt any competition for attention with her (or anyone, usually).

~~~~

I was definitely really thinking about the manipulation by omission conversation earlier. I laughed at the comment that as an ENFP they're equally capable but they don't have as clearly defined of a goal in mine - I don't know why I laughed. That's just a funny comment! *Edit: meant to say goal in mind!

I was almost hurt reading it, but probably because of my life experiences. I have an almost unhealthy obsession with not wanting to be like "those girls," which is really just the stereotype of a manipulative woman. I try to overcompensate in situations where I feel like I could lead someone on - I am always trying to offer a million perspectives or withholding my opinion as to not manipulate a situation. I am truly afraid of my own personal goals/wishes getting in the way of my loved one's decisions and reactions, especially as they pertain to me. Even if it pains me, I give the whole truth the best that I can.

However, I can definitely see this on a small scale, or with people I'm not close to. I reaaaaly can. I tend to lie by omission the most when it comes to a situation that doesn't affect anyone else besides me (at least from my perspective at the time).

For example, when one of my friends asked me years ago if I thought that the boyfriend I had would be my first, I said I thought that I was pretty sure. In fact, I had lost my virginity the day before this conversation took place. And that kind of thing has happened frequently in my life. I know how to bend time or make things a more broad statement. I definitely do know how to lead people to the conclusion that I want them to make. It's almost uncomfortable thinking about how good at that I can be :-/

...But I like to think I have pretty high ethical standards. That constant near-obsession with making sure I'm not influencing those closest to me just to get my own way I think prevents me from utilizing that skill tooooo often. I hope. I really hope!!!

 

[EaTToast]

I´ve had some experience with enfj´s and I can´t tolerate them, somehow enfj´s are drawn to me and almost worshipping me and literally uses me as a living diary. They can literally write to me for hours on social medias without me bother to read it because ENFJ´s can´t write and their definitions on words are just off, I know what they´re telling me but after years of hour long sessions of their super important insights about something as little as "I felt a tingle in my stommach, I think it means that I should´nt go out partying tomorrow, what do you think?" things just get out of hand. They are allways up my face with their worshiped values and allways trying to trigg me into talking about philosofy and why people got bad values, I don´t even know if I can call philosofy but I just feel that whatever you tell an enfj they won´t listen and when I got an explanation they just either don´t understand or just neglect it with something like "Man, it was like not a usual tingle, it was amazing and it meant something". It´s like their values are written in stone and when I ask them to see the subject in someone elses perspective they sadly neglect it with the explanation that they just know by their insight that their values are right. As an egalitarian that´s really annoying to me. But anyhow, enfj´s can be quite some fun if you can keep them in a distance, when they come to close to you they sadly won´t leaving you alone and if you tell them to leave you alone they will take it very personally and might charge at you with their strange logic of "I´m fine I don´t need you, I´m better of alone". I don´t like to hurt anyone and maybe that´s why I don´t tell them to leave me alone as much as I really should have.
I dated an enfj recently and I told her pretty much as soon as I could that I needed my privacy and that I could have problems opening up myself to new peoples but after two days she asked me if we dated. I said, well I guess so. And after a week she told me all kinds of stuff that I just wasn´t ready for like "think if we moved in together, I got this feeling, I like you so very much, bla bla bla" and that kind of killed my little hard working heart because I was allways trying to defend myself from her emotional attacks. Took me a month to end it which I´m quite proud of because I usually don´t end anything before there´s absolutely no chance in universe that it will work out.

 

[Lady_X]

ENFPs seem to dominate IME and I am more likely to listen (I am reconsidering INFJ). lol

you're a weak e like me...i think whoever's the stronger e will

 

[great_bay]

The important observation about quasi-identicals is that they're really not alike. The main reason why is that they're leading function is the most difficult function is process. ENFPs have a hard time understanding Fe. ENFJs don't understand Ne. Their difficult function to process is their 6th function which is the critical parenting which is something people are weak at. Quasi-identicals appears like they're really alike but they're not.

Keep in mind it's possible to be good friends anyways despite not being alike. I have interesting interactions with my superego despite having all of each other's shadows function in an unfavorable order.

 

[Dreamer]

I've only had a close relationship with one ENFJ, that i know of at least, and I'd say that on the surface we could easily appear to be the same type to the typical person. He definitely doesn't have that relational thinking pattern of Ne that I do, and he's definitely less spontaneous and scatter-brained than I am, being able to speak in a more linear pattern of thought, but we're both outgoing and talk to strangers easily. I just went to my brother's wedding and we were both groomsmen, and I just noticed how the two of us mingled so easily in the crowd. I'd say the difference though, is that I tended to bounce from person to person more frequently whereas he seemed to sit down with people for longer periods of time.

I'm curious though, are ENFJs similar to ENFPs where the tend to go through a cyclical pattern of extroversion/introversion, like being on one second, then literally shutting off the next, having to "recharge" and reflect? Or are they more consistent extroverts in the typical sense?

But all in all, we definitely get along very well and often have in-depth, insightful conversations about the bigger questions of life. He's fun

 

[Dreamer]

The important observation about quasi-identicals is that they're really not alike. The main reason why is that they're leading function is the most difficult function is process. ENFPs have a hard time understanding Fe. ENFJs don't understand Ne. Their difficult function to process is their 6th function which is the critical parenting which is something people are weak at. Quasi-identicals appears like they're really alike but they're not.

Keep in mind it's possible to be good friends anyways despite not being alike. I have interesting interactions with my superego despite having all of each other's shadows function in an unfavorable order.

I'm still trying to acquaint myself with the various functions, but what do you mean when you say ENFPs have a hard time understanding Fe? I understand that since I use Fi, that I take in my surroundings and relate my experiences to my own personal value systems and how things make me feel, but what does Fe look like? I can see what you mean about ENFJs not understanding Ne though. I don't think very many people understand my thought process to be honest. I just often tell them to think of Wikipedia and clicking on all the blue links to other pages, and that's how I think 24/7. I often come up with some bizarre humor and imaginations haha.