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  1. #61
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Jul 2010
    6w7 so/sx
    EII Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by PsychedelicPlatypus View Post
    Wow guys! Thanks for all the input! Gosh where to start...I guess the finer details would be nice...I'm pretty sure I know the story. I've demanded everyone tell me everything they know about it/ their feelings about it/why they did what they did, etc. He's recounted it countless times to me when asked, because once I get some theory or horrible idea stuck in my head I need him to explain to me in full detail why it's not true. So anyway, apparently they were all having this party at the house, everyone got really trashed, and she asked him...he said it was the worst decision of his life and he has promised over and over to do whatever it takes to make it better. He seems genuinely sorry to me, and I'm usually great at knowing when people are being sincere, except for this situation, obviously. BUT, thinking back I did notice that things were different and these ex friends of mine actually said I was mentioning things the week it happened to lead them to believe I knew about it...I just never gave it much thought because I trusted him... And the reason my "friends" never said anything is because they were all living together and were afraid they'd have issues with rent. The guy who sent me the text was actually the ex boyfriend (although now I think they are together again ) of the girl this happened with. They were having a fight and to get back at her, told me she slept with my boyfriend. Sorry this is so complicated...I'm actually embarrassed to post in as much detail as I already have, this being like crazy Jerry Springer stuff, but I have really really appreciated the sympathy guys. I haven't been dealt too much of that (except from my boyfriend actually). It makes things better for sure. I probably didn't cover everything (there were tons of posts!) but if other details are desired just ask. Thanks everyone
    haha, no, it doesn't sound like springer... just like... well, college, perhaps... lol.

    i think he definitely owes you a big one, and it's his own fault if you're shaky about the relationship. on the bright side, he seems to recognize that!

    i think that since you've held on with him for so long, and he has voiced strong desire and intention to make it up to you, that the relationship is probably worth another shot. that is, if you personally think it is. and everyone is human, after all... if his heart was not really in what he did - if it was a stupid trashed mistake - then it doesn't have to mean something permanent about his personality, you know? we all royally screw up from time to time. and i think it's your prerogative to be able to exist in the relationship without nagging fear of him cheating again... which i think could be helped by having a sort of contingency plan. just like saying to yourself, okay, one more chance, but if you do it again, you're gone, and that's that. so you're in charge.

    i also say this based on an accident i had with an NFJ friend of mine. it takes her a very long time to deeply trust anyone and she "let me in", so to speak, on things that she would never tell others, because she totally trusted me never to tell. except one day, in the excitement of talking with an old friend, i got stupid and let something bad slip. it got back to her in less than a day. it was never, ever my intention of hurting her or breaking her trust, and i still wish i could go back and stop it before it happened, because i know how much it did hurt her. and now a year later, i think she trusts me almost as much as back then again, but i'm a hell of a lot more careful about what i say to others when it's involving "confidential" info. i think the same could go for your boyfriend. hopefully you can get back to trusting him again (if you want to), and hopefully he is already much more aware of himself when he drinks.

    that said, personally, any hint of something like this happening again and he would be out my door so fast he wouldn't even realize what was hitting his ass on the way out. :drop-kick:

  2. #62
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Jan 2009
    7w8 sx/so


    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    Very true. It wasn't so much as 'don't forgive him' as perhaps question his past in order to gain more information. If he did it this time perhaps he did so before he just wasn't as 'thorough' this time as he was before. You are right though.
    Ahhhh, I see your drift now. That makes sense. Why just interrogate his past? It would be much more effective (and fun) to interrogate him.

    It is worth everyone's while to know the signs of someone being a control freak. I have read estimates that somewhere around ~10% of the population is some type of pathological liar, control freak, or sociopath. I think they are all one the same continuum, frankly. Read this, and allow your jaw to drop. These are the sick bastards (and bitches) who need a good swift kick in the ass when they screw around with good and decent people, whether infidelity or just plain mean and manipulative/abusive behaviors.

    FROM: Dealing with a Critic, Control Freak or Verbal Bully? Tongue Fu! |you might want to compare his/her behavior to the following checklist to see how s/he stacks up.

    The Characteristics of a Control Freak - Verbal Bully Checklist

    1. Dissonance.
    Psychologists agree that one of the primary indicators of a troubled person is incongruent behavior. As Dave Barry pointed out, someone who is nice to you and nasty to "the help" is not who he or she seems. Someone who makes racist remarks and then tries to laugh them off is revealing his or her true character (or lack of). Someone who says s/he loves children but seems remote or rigid when around them is displaying dissonance -- defined as "inconsistency between one’s beliefs and one’s actions." What this means is that you cannot take this person at his or her word. Everything they say will be suspect because you won't know when they're telling the truth and when they're not.

    2. Possessiveness.
    Someone who comes on strong and wants (or has!) to be with you constantly is showing a dangerous need to have you all to=2 0him or herself. Possessiveness is defined as "a desire to own or dominate." Bullies often don't have many (or any) friends of their own which means they grow to resent your other relationships. Does this person pout or try to make you feel guilty for abandoning him or her when you spend time with others? Does this person want to know all about your previous partners/bosses, and somehow resent the fact that you've been with or worked for someone other than him or her? Bullies are so insecure they see everyone you care for as competition and as a threat to their dominance. This reluctance to share you with others will only get worse and become more perverse.

    3. Secrecy.
    People who don't want to discuss their background and don't want you to meet their family or colleagues may have something to hide. People who refuse to reveal anything about their past are often concealing emotional baggage. What you don't know can hurt you. Someone who doles out self-revelations in small quantities may seem mysterious and alluring in the beginning. In the long run, being with a private person who withholds most of himself or herself gets lonesome.

    4. Bitterness.
    Does this person have a lot of animosity for his or her parents, former spouse, or previous managers? Please understand you will be reliving and working out the unresolved traumas of this individual's childhood and prior work relationships. You've heard the Zen saying, "Wherever you go, there you are?" This person hasn't yet figured out that his or her source of bitterness is internal, not external. If this individual is lugging around deep-seated resentments, it is only a matter of time before s/he starts accusing you of the same "crimes" former significant others supposedly perpetrated upon him or her.

    5. Twists words.
    Does this person take what you say and turn it into something you didn't mean? Do you sometimes feel on the defensive and don't even know why? Does this person obfuscate - make confusing statements and then accuse you of misunderstanding? Bullies often make commitments and then claim they never made them in the first place. This is a crazy-making ploy designed to turn you inside-out so you don't know what's up.

    6. Holds you responsible for their unhappiness.
    Does this person blame you for his or her bad moods? If they're sad, it's because you didn't ask about their day? If they're depressed, it's because you don't take them anywhere anymore? If they're angry, it's because you said something that provoked them? There will be no pleasing this kind of person. They essentially haven't grown up, and never will as long as they continue holding everyone else but themselves accountable for how they feel.

    7. Perfectionist.
    Does this person nit-pick? Does he or she have such high standards no one ever measures up? Does this individual have to do things himself because anyone else would just "mess it up"? If you're still in the honeymoon or courting phase, you may be temporarily exempt from this person's unceasing criticism. In time though, their insistence on things being done a certain way (their way) will transfer to you and then you'll never be able to do anything right. Jimmy Hoffa once said, "I may have my faults, but being wrong is n't one of them." Tyrants won't admit to any faults, least of all being wrong.

    8. Pinpoints your weakness and uses them against you.
    Tyrants have a talent for ferreting out your emotional Achilles Heel and hobbling you with it. If you don't want to be considered selfish, they'll call you selfish. If you don't want to be perceived as controlling, they'll accuse you of being controlling. If you're unsure of your parenting skills, they'll attack your parenting skills. This is a classical Machiavellian method of exploiting your weakness so you're impotent (lacking power or strength) and they're omnipotent (having unlimited influence or authority.) Their goal is to make you doubt yourself so you're vulnerable to their attempts to own you.

    9. Plays martyr.
    Does he or she try to lay on the guilt trip by saying things like, "Go ahead and go skiing with your friends. I don't mind. I mean, who wants to spend time with an old fogie like me anyway? I'm sure I'll find something to do." Does this person play the long-suffering individual who's unappreciated? Is it a common theme that s/he is the only one holding the office together and everyone else is frivolous, hedonistic, incompetent, or selfish?

    10. Hates to have authority questioned.
    Does this person take umbrage if you dare dispute his or her facts or opinions? Does s/he come across as a "know-it-all" who has to have all the answers? Bullies can't stand to be challenged because they're afraid their "power-house of cards" could come falling down. Their "my way or the highway" communication style is based on their need to be in control and beyond reproach.

    If you disagree with this person, does he or she escalate their intensity in an effort to force you to concede? If so, it means that every conversation is going to turn into a verbal battleground. It means this person will start disparaging your intelligence, expertise, and experience so you no longer know what you know and won't have the intellectual confidence to challenge them.

    11: Lies, Lies, Lies:
    Mark Twain once commented that "Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Does that description fit the person you're dealing with? Does he or she self-aggrandize and exaggerate his or her achievements? In order to win respect, bullies often claim to have been to places they've never been, boast of knowing people they've never met, and excel at things they've never tried.

    In the mid 1970's, I had the privilege of working with Grand-Slam tennis champion Rod Laver at his Hilton Head Island resort. A couple times a year we sponsored national tennis camps. Every once in awhile, someone would blow in and we would sense that we were able to deal with a type of individual the Aussies playfully refer to as "all flap and no throttle." These "blowhards" always talked a bigger game than they delivered. They often had the latest racquet and the fanciest clothes but didn't have the strokes to back it up.

    Does the person you're dealing with display "blowhard" tendencies? Does he or she wax eloquently (or not so eloquently) about past accomplishments? Did this individual somehow manage in the first few minutes of meeting you to let you know how much money he made, what degrees she had, or what awards he's won? Was she so intent on impressing you with her curriculum vitae that she failed to ask about yours? Watch out. Red alert. Bully on the loose.

    Is The Person You're Dealing with a Fault-Finder?
    "A critic is someone who's at his best when you're at your worst." -Tony Pelleto

    Verbal bullies do their best to make you feel worse. They always focus on what you do wrong, never on what you do right.

    Are you thinking, "Well, my partner or boss does some of these things some of the time, but so do I! After all, no one is perfect."

    You're right. We all have bad days. However, bullies don't have bad days once in a while, they make the people around them have bad days most of the time. The key question to ask yourself is a) how frequently does this person engage in the above behaviors and b) is s/he willing to change?

    If you checked off many of the behaviors above, then this person is not just having a bad day -- they are knowingly throwing their weight around because it's working for them. They probably have little incentive to change because their bully behavior is succeeding in giving them the power they crave.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecttcelfeR View Post
    If she found out that this was the first time and he was serious about his devotion and he proved it, then there is no reason why she shouldn't forgive him. Just make him earn it, that's all.
    Trust me, I am a big believer that the transgressor needs to earn back the trust they have broken. Our marriage counselor said that a commonly used method for rebuilding trust is to make small promises, and to keep them, and to continue this over time, and ver time make the magnitude of the promises larger and larger. Somehow this triggers the rebuilding of trust in the human mind, as there is a "positive tail of experience" that has built over time, and it thus compels one to instill trust in another person, whether for the first time or once again after a transgression has occurred.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    I see your point, Halla.

    For me, integrity and loyalty are the two most important traits in a person. Personally, I have serious trust issues so it's very shaky grounds for me. My heart sort of creaks open...they don't fling open so once you have squeezed your way in, don't you mess up in there. I wouldn't recover. I am happy to hear that others have bigger hearts and are more willing to forgive - that warms my Fi.

    Also...okay, so I haven't been the most loyal 'person' with the utmost integrity in the past. I messed up twice but in a different sort of scenarios. I would have liked to be forgiven both those times but I do also accept that I can't be forgiven. I knew exactly what I was doing as I am sure people who cheat do too. It is a process, you meet someone, you get your game on, you take off your pants...etc. Whether it was direct or indirect betrayal on my part, that doesn't matter, I did something ethically sketchy. So my point is while I would have liked to be forgiven and the relationship restored, I also accept that my actions were inexcusable and I ruined something good and hurt someone I loved. I sort of respect her for not forgiving me. I don't deserve to be forgiven. Did that make sense? I have since restored my loyalty/integrity.
    You do deserve to be forgiven, and it is your duty to forgive YOURSELF.

    If you have done everything you can to atone for your wrongdoing (apologize, try to make things right, perform act of contrition for the needy if the person you wronged is not willing to communicate with you) then you can do no more, and should be allowed to release your baggage. Drop those bags, learn from your mistakes, and do better in the future.

    The person who you wronged is doing themselves a dis-service by not forgiving you, but that is their choice. They will be bitter and spiteful, and be old in the heart much sooner than is necessary.
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

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