[MBTI General] INF's and Vulnerability

[musicnerd93]

INF's are famous for feeling emotions very, very, very deeply, but being extremely guarded when it comes to expressing them, or revealing their dark side.

Today, I was talking with my friend when I brought up the point that I ended up in psychotherapy twice before I turned twelve. Immediately after saying that, I realized I shouldn't have and clammed up. But, she soon asks "Why?!"

I sort of did that awkward giggle and said "You don't want to know!" Hoping she would get the hint that that REALLY meant "I don't want to talk about it. I shouldn't have brought it up. Leave me alone!"

She replies: "Actually I do. That's WHY I asked!"

So I told her. And after I did. I immediately felt like I may as well be standing naked in front of her. It sounds odd, but I feel like our friendship can't ever be the same again. I fear she'll no longer think of me as fun, quirky and eccentric Jenny, but rather creepy, dark and unstable Jenny.

Weather or not she is still even thinking about this is beyond me. But, I feel like all the walls have been torn down and she now knows that I do, in fact, have a dark side. I hate this vulnerable feeling.


Also, I usually refrain from letting anyone read my poetry or creative writing things, not because they're bad, but because I don't want them to know what I'm really feeling.

I don't know, I guess that's all I have to say for now.


Comments? Questions? Relate? Can't relate? Exclamations? Complaints?

Throw 'em here.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

I can relate.

I would share more, but you know... I'm guarded about my emotions.

 

[musicnerd93]

I can relate.

I would share more, but you know... I'm guarded about my emotions.

Respect.


The only reason I feel comfortable sharing any of this here is because I don't know any of you guys personally, so it wouldn't effect how you already think of me. Just in case I'm sounding ironic or somehow hypocritical.

 

[CuriousFeeling]

Yeah, I feel massively awkward revealing too much about myself too. I tend to compartmentalize what I tell others, unless they reveal something dark about themselves that makes me feel comfortable to tell them about my dark side.

 

[SecondBest]

Yeah, I had this problem, too, of not wanting to share anything and mistakenly doing so. But actually, it's probably good that this kind of thing happened.

What I had to realize as an introverted feeler, is that actually, chances are that people really don't actually give a shit about me and will forget that ever-so-important detail I just accidentally divulged about my life. Though if it's your friend, I don't know... the fact that she didn't respect your privacy when you obviously didn't feel comfortable, and she put you on the spot - well... I'd find a new friend. But that's just me. I know society seems to think being vulnerable is a bad thing because it causes more pain, but it's how you develop charisma as a human being. You can't be charming without willing to make yourself vulnerable. Why do us NFs makes up most of the successful artist, musician, thespian crowd? We know what it's like to be vulnerable and that's all art is really, if you think about it.

So, yeah, it'll all be fine.

P.S. That is unless, you spilled your beans to a gossip queen. Then you're fucked.

 

[musicnerd93]

Yeah, I had this problem, too, of not wanting to share anything and mistakenly doing so. But actually, it's probably good that this kind of thing happened.

What I had to realize as an introverted feeler, is that actually, chances are that people really don't actually give a shit about me and will forget that ever-so-important detail I just accidentally divulged about my life. Though if it's your friend, I don't know... the fact that she didn't respect your privacy when you obviously didn't feel comfortable, and she put you on the spot - well... I'd find a new friend. But that's just me. I know society seems to think being vulnerable is a bad thing because it causes more pain, but it's how you develop charisma as a human being. You can't be charming without willing to make yourself vulnerable. Why do us NFs makes up most of the successful artist, musician, thespian crowd? We know what it's like to be vulnerable and that's all art is really, if you think about it.
So, yeah, it'll all be fine.

P.S. That is unless, you spilled your beans to a gossip queen. Then you're fucked.

Extremely good points!

I think part of being an introverted feeler is being self concious. So you can think that people are always talking about you and thinking about you when they're really not.

I've noticed that! About the musicians and artists and such. I've always wondered how they go the nerve, though.

 

[CuriousFeeling]

Extremely good points!

I think part of being an introverted feeler is being self concious. So you can think that people are always talking about you and thinking about you when they're really not.

I've noticed that! About the musicians and artists and such. I've always wondered how they go the nerve, though.

Music and art provide us an abstract and indirect way of presenting our emotions. We could write a lyric that is about a fictional character in the third person, and still have a connection to them by placing ourselves in their shoes.

 

[Onceajoan]

What I had to realize as an introverted feeler, is that actually, chances are that people really don't actually give a shit about me and will forget that ever-so-important detail I just accidentally divulged about my life.

That hasn't been my experience. If people care enough to ask or are just plain nosey, they care. If they don't care, the conversation tends to stay at the superficial and banal level. Since I prefer relationships of a little more depth, I inevitably make myself more vulnerable in the process. I take the risk of opening myself up in a way where information I give them can be used against me. I've been caught off guard on more than one occasion, thinking I could trust someone when I could not. After been burnt a few times, I'm much more cautious than I used to be. I think a lot of NFs probably experience this phenomenon.

Though if it's your friend, I don't know... the fact that she didn't respect your privacy when you obviously didn't feel comfortable, and she put you on the spot - well... I'd find a new friend.

^ Yes. I've become much more aware when others don't show respect for my boundaries.

But that's just me. I know society seems to think being vulnerable is a bad thing because it causes more pain, but it's how you develop charisma as a human being. You can't be charming without willing to make yourself vulnerable. Why do us NFs makes up most of the successful artist, musician, thespian crowd? We know what it's like to be vulnerable and that's all art is really, if you think about it.

I can see the art connection. However, for me, vulnerability is more relevant relationally. Allowing myself to be vulnerable to another is trusting that I can completely be myself while being accepted and loved unconditionally by another. I've never had this experience before.

So I told her. And after I did. I immediately felt like I may as well be standing naked in front of her. It sounds odd, but I feel like our friendship can't ever be the same again. I fear she'll no longer think of me as fun, quirky and eccentric Jenny, but rather creepy, dark and unstable Jenny.

Weather or not she is still even thinking about this is beyond me. But, I feel like all the walls have been torn down and she now knows that I do, in fact, have a dark side. I hate this vulnerable feeling.

Yeah. I recently had a very similar experience. It feels like "nowhere to run, nowhere to hide". Like you said, it feels like our relationship will never be the same again. Since I've never experienced this level of intimacy before, it's very scary.

It's strange to me how I conduct myself in the world. I see myself as coming across in a very authentic and honest way. However, I know that there's a facade I carry around with me of competence, confidence, strength (even coldness) that hides the intense emotions, insecurities and vulnerabilities underneath. Not many see behind the facade. But those who do need to care enough to really want to see. I found myself unknowingly revealing my dark side recently and that's extremely scary! It's enough to reveal ones shadow to oneself. I also hate this vulnerable feeling. BUT, I'm confused. I'm not sure exactly what I'm hating. The cat is now out of the bag, so to speak. He already knows now. What is there to fear?

 

[mochajava]

Oh musicnerd93 - I can definitely understand how this feels:

musicnerd93: I fear she'll no longer think of me as fun, quirky and eccentric Jenny, but rather creepy, dark and unstable Jenny.

For this very reason, I often only open up about these things to people who have the same problems as me, but then I'm not really doing the talking. They are, but because their problems/viewpoints are the same as mine, it feels like I've vented. Maybe I'm circumventing the vulnerable feeling you're talking about.

But isn't there something to this? Isn't there a stigma about psychotherapy? And a stigma about anything mental / mental-health related? Even all the new-agey, touchy-feely, quality of life stuff -- aren't there pervading societal biases against these? (I'm finding them to be less so on the west than east coast).

musicnerd93:
I think part of being an introverted feeler is being self concious. So you can think that people are always talking about you and thinking about you when they're really not.

That's a good insight.

curiousfeeling: Music and art provide us an abstract and indirect way of presenting our emotions. We could write a lyric that is about a fictional character in the third person, and still have a connection to them by placing ourselves in their shoes.

so does that make it safer?

 

[mochajava]

Onceajoan : I can see the art connection. However, for me, vulnerability is more relevant relationally. Allowing myself to be vulnerable to another is trusting that I can completely be myself while being accepted and loved unconditionally by another. I've never had this experience before.

Wait, are you saying that you've never felt completely accepted and unconditionally loved?

I also hate this vulnerable feeling. BUT, I'm confused. I'm not sure exactly what I'm hating. The cat is now out of the bag, so to speak. He already knows now. What is there to fear?

There is something very big and real to fear: there are people in this world who will become intimate with you, learn a lot about you, then turn around and judge you for it and/or use it against you. My father is a prime example -- anything he knows about anyone gets turned around and used against them, like a knife. It can be good or bad, but heaven forbid it be something embarrassing or shameful in the eyes of society.

Intense emotions, sensitivity, and vulnerability are seen as flaws in our society. Maybe we don't want to deal with the judgment, so we withhold these parts of ourselves. I don't think it's necessarily bad, just incredibly exhausting when there's no one around with whom you can "drop the facade". That being said... people are real and more accepting than I'm estimating... but if you are too nice / sensitive, people WILL walk all over you knowing you won't fight back...

 

[SecondBest]

It's strange to me how I conduct myself in the world. I see myself as coming across in a very authentic and honest way. However, I know that there's a facade I carry around with me of competence, confidence, strength (even coldness) that hides the intense emotions, insecurities and vulnerabilities underneath. Not many see behind the facade. But those who do need to care enough to really want to see. I found myself unknowingly revealing my dark side recently and that's extremely scary! It's enough to reveal ones shadow to oneself. I also hate this vulnerable feeling. BUT, I'm confused. I'm not sure exactly what I'm hating. The cat is now out of the bag, so to speak. He already knows now. What is there to fear?

Being vulnerable is being in pain. You hate the pain, you don't hate the vulnerability. Or you do hate the vulnerability, but only because it's causing you pain. Basically what I'm saying is pain is at the center.

But if you can learn to really ride the pain and understand your relationship with it, I think, a person's willingness to be vulnerable will increase. Unfortunately, this would probably take you places that are less than comfortable. To me, or at least this is what I tell myself, the rewards are worth the risk though.

It's hard to be more specific than that unfortunately, but next time you go through the cycle of vulnerability-withdrawal-stasis, try to take a step back and pay attention to what's happening. I think you'll find you feel a bit stronger and more graceful in direct proportion to how vulnerable you made yourself in that first step though.

Problem is, you might make yourself too vulnerable, you might get hurt so much that you may never recover. That's where the real risk in all this comes in.

Hope that makes sense.

Allowing myself to be vulnerable to another is trusting that I can completely be myself while being accepted and loved unconditionally by another. I've never had this experience before.

I'm not sure many people have, to be honest.

 

[Onceajoan]

Wait, are you saying that you've never felt completely accepted and unconditionally loved?

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Oops! There I go again. Opening myself up.

There is something very big and real to fear: there are people in this world who will become intimate with you, learn a lot about you, then turn around and judge you for it and/or use it against you.

My father is a prime example -- anything he knows about anyone gets turned around and used against them, like a knife. It can be good or bad, but heaven forbid it be something embarrassing or shameful in the eyes of society.

My mother was like that. Not narcissist, but borderline. There's ^ the connection, as you mention, to my childhood. Seemingly irrational behavior to carry around as an adult although it makes sense in the context.

Intense emotions, sensitivity, and vulnerability are seen as flaws in our society. Maybe we don't want to deal with the judgment, so we withhold these parts of ourselves.

Yeah. You got it. 100% ^ I feel like I'm constantly holding myself back (i.e. the intensity/passion I feel inside). Sometimes I feel if I was to fully express myself I would completely blow people over (or run people over). People fear intensity (maybe they should?) But to deny this part of me seems wrong. I'm trying to find a way to work with this energy. It's hard tho, there are a lot of people who don't understand or want to understand.

I don't think it's necessarily bad, just incredibly exhausting when there's no one around with whom you can "drop the facade".

Thanks mochajava. You bring up some good points. Very perceptive. I'm starting to feel exhausted. It actually takes a lot of energy to hold the energy back. Sounds strange, doesn't it?

I'm going through a major life transformation right now so vulnerability is definitely something I'm going through. I feel like I'm shedding skin and dropping the veil is part of the process.

That being said... people are real and more accepting than I'm estimating... but if you are too nice / sensitive, people WILL walk all over you knowing you won't fight back...

There are good people. And I think those "good" people are the healthy ones. The challenge, for me, is finding those people with whom I can maintain healthy boundaries.

 

[Eckhart]

I have also real, real trouble revealing much about me. I just don't. The problem is obviously when you don't reveal anything about you, then it stands in the way for a deeper relationship between two persons I guess... but when you are already low on self-confidence etc. then it is especially hard to step out of it, and in the end you end up just like me I guess and have trouble getting out of it.

 

[CuriousFeeling]

so does that make it safer?

It feels safer because it isn't directly about you. Can state that you wrote it about the other character's emotions, when you know on your own that it has something to do with an experience you had, just you're not going to reveal it.

 

[ScentlessApprentice]

INF's are people that generally dwell in their headspace a lot, so when that space is shown to another person it can be very frightening and regretful. Sometimes I live with constant fear that everyone is plotting against me in some way, and it's pretty irrational, but very confusing.

 

[musicnerd93]

Music and art provide us an abstract and indirect way of presenting our emotions. We could write a lyric that is about a fictional character in the third person, and still have a connection to them by placing ourselves in their shoes.

Good point!

mochajava:
But isn't there something to this? Isn't there a stigma about psychotherapy? And a stigma about anything mental / mental-health related? Even all the new-agey, touchy-feely, quality of life stuff -- aren't there pervading societal biases against these? (I'm finding them to be less so on the west than east coast).

lol. Could you re-word your vocabulary so a dumb person can understand it? Do you mean like people seem to shun anyone with a mental problem, or that people with mental problems seem to be accepted more as individuals than they have in the past?

Eckhart:
I have also real, real trouble revealing much about me. I just don't. The problem is obviously when you don't reveal anything about you, then it stands in the way for a deeper relationship between two persons I guess... but when you are already low on self-confidence etc. then it is especially hard to step out of it, and in the end you end up just like me I guess and have trouble getting out of it.

I know what you mean. It's true, revealing your insecurities is alright to some extent. If you want to have a good healthy relationship with someone, you have to. But, I don't know, after I do I feel like crawling in a hole and dying.

ScentlessApprentice:
INF's are people that generally dwell in their headspace a lot, so when that space is shown to another person it can be very frightening and regretful. Sometimes I live with constant fear that everyone is plotting against me in some way, and it's pretty irrational, but very confusing.

Exactly! I used to worry myself sick about weather or not somebody was spreading rumors and such about me. Or I'll take the way somebody looked at me, and think "Oh my gosh! Did you see the way they looked at me? They don't like me. They're going to do something bad! NOOO!"

 

[ExAstrisSpes]

I have also real, real trouble revealing much about me. I just don't. The problem is obviously when you don't reveal anything about you, then it stands in the way for a deeper relationship between two persons I guess... but when you are already low on self-confidence etc. then it is especially hard to step out of it, and in the end you end up just like me I guess and have trouble getting out of it.

I have the same problem. I'm very open and verbal; I can talk to anyone for hours about "stuff". And I don't mind being one-on-one with someone.

But to actually share my actual "stuffing"? That's *hard*.

I often don't feel like anyone can relate to me. :sigh:

 

[Lily flower]

I hope you continue to be friends with your friend. I have had people reveal intimate details to me, and then dump the friendship in panic. So be brave - your friend's acceptance of you might make your friendship stronger.

 

[Biaxident]

INF's are people that generally dwell in their headspace a lot, so when that space is shown to another person it can be very frightening and regretful. Sometimes I live with constant fear that everyone is plotting against me in some way, and it's pretty irrational, but very confusing.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you...

 

[Onceajoan]

Being vulnerable is being in pain. You hate the pain, you don't hate the vulnerability

No. You are wrong. I HATE the vulnerability. It's not so much pain as anticipated hurt. It's like waiting for that shot in the arm at the doctor's office.

Or you do hate the vulnerability, but only because it's causing you pain. Basically what I'm saying is pain is at the center.

Yeah. Why should vulnerability be so painful if it's such a wonderful thing? There seems to be an inherent paradox in the concept of vulnerability.

But if you can learn to really ride the pain and understand your relationship with it, I think, a person's willingness to be vulnerable will increase. Unfortunately, this would probably take you places that are less than comfortable. To me, or at least this is what I tell myself, the rewards are worth the risk though.

Yeah. I'd call that "uncomfortable" place my dark side or shadow. Spooky.

I wish I had a handle on what this all means and how it all works. Does anyone have a primer?

Problem is, you might make yourself too vulnerable, you might get hurt so much that you may never recover. That's where the real risk in all this comes in.

That's what I'm thinking. How do you know when you've hit bottom? That is, how do you know when you've opened yourself up enough to experience a healthy, satisfactory intimate relationship. How do you know the difference from just holding yourself back out of fear and need to protect oneself versus a need for healthy self preservation?

Hope that makes sense.

Yeah. For the most part. Although, I find INFP logic a bit challenging at times.