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[ENFP] Ask an ENFP

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
No. There will be no little chat. I'll cover you, kiss you goodbye, and leave the talk for later.
I'll listen to your feelings, I'll put myself in your stead, but chances are, I won't promise you something I may not deliver.
I'll most likely deploy intellect and insidious acumen of the highest magnitude to concoct the blueprints of flawless crimes against humanity, in this case, hiding things I deem don't necessary require having you worried over, for I care about your well-being.



Picture a valiant man of honor who'd pierce through the demons threatning his loved ones and protecting them with ferocious and unwavering volition. He's their sword, and their shield.

So am I.

I wouldn't require you to go on the battlefield, to fight, put yourself in harm's way, while I'm here. It is that care and compassion while you're attending to my wounds which gives me strength and power. I'd likely wouldn't have done many things if you weren't there, but just because I have the firm knowledge that you will, I can surpass my wildest limitations.




I highly respect the virtue you're displaying. This comes to confirm why I chose you as my bride.

That link which you describe, I have lived it with my own mother. Sacrifice beyond the ordinary. My dad was an INTJ, absolutely protective of us, used to conceal many things. She could read him like no one else could. Even when she was dying, seeing him besides her, they had this aura of passionate and out-of-this-world and awe-inspiring endearment. I was very privileged to be their son.

My mother knew about his nature, and she let him do what he wants to do. I would ask her "Where is my father?", and she would answer "Your father is being your father like always", and we'd almost sigh together. Of course she cannot hide her worry, she's a wife and a mother, but she had great faith in him, and she never made him feel guilty for anything. I slowly understood his behavior as I'm growing up and analyzing my own. She fed him love, motivation, acceptance, and infinite warmth, while he was the charismatic and protective emblem of our family. He died years after she passed away in grieve and yearning. Even as the rock he was, the greatest warrior made of steel he was, he couldn't stand living without her after all these years. Her name was the last thing he said.

As much I'd make a standing ovation for the fondness and motherly affections you're showcasing, I won't let you come in my feelings' way about you, nor about our children.


I see a great deal of similarities between what you describe of your parents and my parents as well as some stark (stark? I'm not sure if that's right) differences...but I too hit the father jackpot with an INTJ dad. My father is rough around the edges though and routinely, unintentionally trampled all over e7 Positive Outlook when I was a child...but all things good and honorable and true in me and my experience...all of those roads lead back to him.

I'm not entirely sure what you are expressing in your last paragraph but I *think* I understand. I am an overidealist...and overidealists know they know best... but with constant reminding I may be able to keep it in the forefront of my mind that there's this thing called "reality" and "other people's experience."
 

Sacrophagus

Mastermind Fieldmarshal
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
1,702
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
854
I am an overidealist...and overidealists know they know best... but with constant reminding I may be able to keep it in the forefront of my mind that there's this thing called "reality" and "other people's experience."
If that's being over-idealist, then over-idealism ought to be cherished.
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
I've never seen him answer anything that requires more than a single sentence response. Not because I believe he's incapable of it, but because he is the kid in the class no one gets to know beyond his snarky one liners. He wants us to know he's here but doesn't want us to know him.

Of course if this was back in school you'd never hear a word from me at all. I'm only as social as I am here because I can control the level of disclosure.

Anyway back to ENFP time.

eternal gasp
 

Lloyd

Ain Soph Aur
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
115
MBTI Type
INFP
Instinctual Variant
sx
Eating speed

How fast do you eat?
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
Time for the finale, shall we?

@ Starry, now in the instance I talked to you, I mentioned my parents. Giving the context, they come to make you interpret things, even though it's nowhere literally said, that my father never allowed her to be part of the process. You will surely not question the use, and assume they come to back up my first claim. Argumentum ex silentio ad lapidem.
"I won't let you come in my feelings' way about you, nor about our children."
No one can actually come in the way of anyone's feelings. We're responsible for the way we feel, and fair enough, I will be the one to come in my feelings' way, change my thoughts, and own them.

What's going on?

I'm embarrassed Sacrophagus because somewhere along the way I became so lost. Are you saying that your parents were together in a relationship that many today would consider ultra traditional? A relationship where the man/husband/father was the head of the household and made all the decisions? I apologize but I just don't get it even though I've read it numerous times now... I just can't figure out what is being expressed in the statement "I won't let you come in my feelings' way about you, nor about our children." Was he likewise traditional in the sense that he equated 'feelings' with 'female' and believed them to be a detriment to quality decision making? I am so confused and look forward to a clarification if you care to provide one.

While there are definitely some gender-traditional rituals my dad has an appreciation for they are all somewhat superficial in nature. He insists on carrying the groceries in from the car...but raised me/his daughters as equal to his sons (hopefully that makes sense.) We come from a different culture though. I mean, my father loves strong, autonomous women that challenge him to see things in a way he may have missed otherwise based on differing perspectives, values, thought processes, conclusions, etc. that quite likely have their roots in differing gender experiences... but he is also a product of his culture. Our culture is big on the Virgin Mother...and it is this reason in my opinion that the women in my culture are provided relatively equal standing and say. In no uncertain terms I was raised to someday be head of the household. I was raised to be the boss. It's not what I want out of a relationship...I want to be in an equal partnership with a co-boss.


Well, say that my query was to exact the way I think about things, vs the way I thought others thought about things, in a very cunning manner. Though some were very predictable.

Not understanding what has come before I am in no way confident in what is being said above...But perhaps you have an appreciation for traditional gender roles while I see no problem or automatic pathology in that but again I'm lost. I'm also on vacation and am not sure when it became past 1am. Once again I will return
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
:hi: How much would you pay? For a reasonable rate I'll be your interpreter. Note: I will work for chocolate.

I start out at 25 lbs a week...and then after a 90 day probationary period that will go up to 75 lbs a week.



If you are still interested in the position...Please fill out this brief questionnaire I created and return it asap. Thanks.

 

Sacrophagus

Mastermind Fieldmarshal
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
1,702
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
854
I'm embarrassed Sacrophagus because somewhere along the way I became so lost. Are you saying that your parents were together in a relationship that many today would consider ultra traditional? A relationship where the man/husband/father was the head of the household and made all the decisions? I apologize but I just don't get it even though I've read it numerous times now... I just can't figure out what is being expressed in the statement "I won't let you come in my feelings' way about you, nor about our children." Was he likewise traditional in the sense that he equated 'feelings' with 'female' and believed them to be a detriment to quality decision making? I am so confused and look forward to a clarification if you care to provide one.


Traditional? In short, it was a patriarchy where father was the King, and mother was the Queen. That's about it. The way they brought us was free of any social agenda, in fact, my father frowned upon many frivolous aspects of society. I wish I was saying he was the King out of bias. That man earned everyone's respect and admiration, and so did my mother. She had her own endeavors and my dad pursued his. Both of them were happy, and very grateful. They taught us many things, and they had a lot to offer to us and to the world. I wouldn't have been the man I am today if not for their care, warmth, support, teachings, and unconditional love.

Both of them acted as equal even if I say "Patriarchy". Or let me tell you this, my mom was the emotional back up. He discovered many things about him thanks to her existence in his life.

Feelings are not detrimental to the decision making process. Either they optimize it, or hinder it. My mother never needed validation from my father nor to prove something to anyone since she was a happy and fulfilled mother who knows her worth and what she has to do. That's exactly why she was loved by everyone, literally. On the other hand, a needy and ungrateful woman with many frustrations who does not know her worth nor knows that she has an effective role in any relationship, will try to force herself, start complaining, and all that hokum.

It's not about feelings, it's about your perception and how you see yourself.

Do you treat yourself like a porcelain doll and lash on anger because events outside seem to back up that perception while the truth is they do only because you have that perception on the first place ? Or do deem yourself as happy, fulfilled, and lucky to have greatness around you, grateful for the small and big, and as a consequence, you see that great people gravitate around you?

"In no uncertain terms I was raised to someday be head of the household. I was raised to be the boss. It's not what I want out of a relationship...I want to be in an equal partnership with a co-boss."


You don't want to be bossing others around. You want to lead them as they deem you worthy of such. You want to also be down-to-earth and be willing to learn from them and value their insight. A leader won't have seek the council for every of his moves, in fact it happens that his followers are the ones who seek his guidance. They are though, members of his consortium and will provide help if he needs it, and the final word remains his.
Your husband will co-lead but he won't be co-dependent.


Not understanding what has come before I am in no way confident in what is being said above...But perhaps you have an appreciation for traditional gender roles while I see no problem or automatic pathology in that but again I'm lost. I'm also on vacation and am not sure when it became past 1am. Once again I will return

That's alright.

In summary, my query was to unveil the way those who answer think about themselves by projecting the way they view themselves, or by sharing their relationship's modus operandi. However the subsequent is secondary, its aim was also to extract information with the minimum bias, since we don't really know each other.
In fact, the answers were very interesting since the women I asked and put in the scenario in real life all of them were favorable to the fact that the husband was, according to their words, "caring, sweet and thoughtful". Now, was it because Happiness was their common denominator? Was it because I'm the one who was putting them in the scenario? Truth is an elusive thing.
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
Traditional? In short, it was a patriarchy where father was the King, and mother was the Queen. That's about it. The way they brought us was free of any social agenda, in fact, my father frowned upon many frivolous aspects of society. I wish I was saying he was the King out of bias. That man earned everyone's respect and admiration, and so did my mother. She had her own endeavors and my dad pursued his. Both of them were happy, and very grateful. They taught us many things, and they had a lot to offer to us and to the world. I wouldn't have been the man I am today if not for their care, warmth, support, teachings, and unconditional love.

Both of them acted as equal even if I say "Patriarchy". Or let me tell you this, my mom was the emotional back up. He discovered many things about him thanks to her existence in his life.

Feelings are not detrimental to the decision making process. Either they optimize it, or hinder it. My mother never needed validation from my father nor to prove something to anyone since she was a happy and fulfilled mother who knows her worth and what she has to do. That's exactly why she was loved by everyone, literally. On the other hand, a needy and ungrateful woman with many frustrations who does not know her worth nor knows that she has an effective role in any relationship, will try to force herself, start complaining, and all that hokum.


Well, I mean, your mother may not have asked for your father's validation... but in a Patriarchal system she was dependent on it all the same...that's just how it is or it wouldn't be a Patriarchal system. For me, I am not sure if I will ever marry or even enter into a life partnership...I will cross that road when I come to it. But in spite of the fact my survival will not be dependent on it...I would...or will ask for validation from time to time yes. Because I do go through periods of doubt...when Life events throw me for a loop...I can start to question my understanding of things including the value of what I have to offer the world. But even when I'm not going through a growth spurt and am feeling confident...even then...my Intimates opinions will matter...they will always matter to me and have an impact on my person and soul...or I wouldn't be with them. <-And that's the gift my father gave me (wanting as opposed to needing.)



Do you treat yourself like a porcelain doll and lash on anger because events outside seem to back up that perception while the truth is they do only because you have that perception on the first place ? Or do deem yourself as happy, fulfilled, and lucky to have greatness around you, grateful for the small and big, and as a consequence, you see that great people gravitate around you?


I mean, I kinda think I"m a Queen...but for the most part I'm a human being that makes countless mistakes.

But I'm so excited to present a question to you!!! What about people that are born happy? What about those of us that are born happy...grateful...loving...ready and willing to extend anyone a helping hand or the benefit of the doubt...filled with joy to share... <-What do you imagine life is like for these folks? What common experience do you imagine these folks often report?
 

Sacrophagus

Mastermind Fieldmarshal
Joined
Jul 11, 2017
Messages
1,702
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
854
Because I do go through periods of doubt...when Life events throw me for a loop...I can start to question my understanding of things including the value of what I have to offer the world. But even when I'm not going through a growth spurt and am feeling confident...even then...my Intimates opinions will matter...they will always matter to me and have an impact on my person and soul...or I wouldn't be with them. <-And that's the gift my father gave me (wanting as opposed to needing.)

I'm surrounded by many great people who come to me asking for a dear listener and someone who truly wants their greatest good. There are indeed times of uncertainty, self-doubt, apprehension and angst, where one needs a shoulder to lean on. Falling and standing up are part of life. You get knocked down, you get back up. Nothing is insurmountable. Not everyone is as strong as to face everything by themselves though, and that's why we're here.

If it's of comfort to you, I'll tell you this.
At one point I was helping a friend who was melancholic and suicidal, and I told him at the end of that rough patch "Thank you. I needed to hear me say that. I needed to remind myself of what is most important."

Sometimes when we're validating others, we're also validating ourselves. It's a two-way street.
You shouldn't be ashamed nor be indigent for feeling that way, or for craving Oxytocin.

I'm only against those who want to force others to stick to their agenda, as opposed to offer them to listen with kindness, or simply, accept them for who they are. The use of force invites a clash of Egos. That will end very very badly.
The use of love, affection and modesty, like yourself, invites one to tune down his walls and his behaviors, and show his vulnerabilities.

My code of honor dictates to never let down anyone, but even if I didn't have a shred of honor, I doubt your demureness will go unnoticed.


But I'm so excited to present a question to you!!! What about people that are born happy? What about those of us that are born happy...grateful...loving...ready and willing to extend anyone a helping hand or the benefit of the doubt...filled with joy to share...

You're one of those people, and I imagine life will reward you for your patience, and inside your mind, you already know it already did for the numerous things you're grateful for.

What do you imagine life is like for these folks?

I'll give you two examples of happy women I know.

One of them is the happiest smiling teddy bear. She's too cute it could even annoy you. I don't even use that word often. Cute. **sigh**
She's giving, generous, always giving second chances to people, but you guessed it, people take her for granted. If she's grateful, not everyone is. Her two previous relationships went downhill because she gave them everything. Not all women can gauge the worth of a man, until too late. Consequence, she becomes sad, sick, depressed, but thanks to her support system, we validate her and lift her up, and she's back being the happy cunt we all know. **sigh**


The second one is also one of the happiest women you'll ever meet. She's outrageously generous, kind, shares her joy with everyone, but if you think about double crossing her, she will eat you alive. She doesn't mind cutting ties with her childhood friends if they think they can harm her and get away with it. She values her own happiness above the others' happiness, but she will never hurt anyone even when defending herself.

Now, both are happy people, but they are not the same. They have different lives. Personality, mindset, values and attitude play a role in how your life is going to be played out in the future and how your desires are going to unfold, even if you're the happiest person in life.
Do you associate happiness with excitements and ephemeral experiences? Do you associate happiness as a mindset? Do you associate happiness as the way to go or as a final destination? Do you associate happiness with people? Do you associate happiness with self-image? Do you associate happiness with detachment?
Many questions are worth pondering to really get to the gist of your query.
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
I'm surrounded by many great people who come to me asking for a dear listener and someone who truly wants their greatest good. There are indeed times of uncertainty, self-doubt, apprehension and angst, where one needs a shoulder to lean on. Falling and standing up are part of life. You get knocked down, you get back up. Nothing is insurmountable. Not everyone is as strong as to face everything by themselves though, and that's why we're here.

If it's of comfort to you, I'll tell you this.
At one point I was helping a friend who was melancholic and suicidal, and I told him at the end of that rough patch "Thank you. I needed to hear me say that. I needed to remind myself of what is most important."

Sometimes when we're validating others, we're also validating ourselves. It's a two-way street.
You shouldn't be ashamed nor be indigent for feeling that way, or for craving Oxytocin.



I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, the above was is the back of my mind when I composed my failed "high horse" rep to you.

Years ago I worked with a devout Christian lady that lived alone and had just found out she needed emergency surgery. I learned this for having been included on an email sent out by her church...an email asking for people to see to her aftercare once she was released from the hospital and was recovering at home. I don't think I even got a chance to read the email though when within the hour another email had been sent indicating that her aftercare schedule had been filled and no more volunteers were needed at that time (which immediately had me thinking my life was gravely lacking in devout Christian people.) So I walked down the hall to see if she was in the office...and she was so I told her that if she needed anything...if something unexpected came up that she should not hesitate to call me. I would be there in a moment's notice.

To which she responded "Starry, I would never deny you blessings." <-I fuckin love it.


I'm only against those who want to force others to stick to their agenda, as opposed to offer them to listen with kindness, or simply, accept them for who they are. The use of force invites a clash of Egos. That will end very very badly.
The use of love, affection and modesty, like yourself, invites one to tune down his walls and his behaviors, and show his vulnerabilities.

My code of honor dictates to never let down anyone, but even if I didn't have a shred of honor, I doubt your demureness will go unnoticed.


Okay, I finally understand what's going on...what's being expressed by you and why I was so blind to it. You are someone that truly holds straight-forward, agenda-free, no-frills, authentic communication in the highest regard. This is the honorable way to communicate especially when sharing personal opinions and values because it facilitates understanding by reducing confusion. It ensures no participant will be misrepresented or mocked or silenced or pressured to censor themselves etc. It is the only way to get as close to the Truth as possible...when we let go of our need for people to be the way we want them to be and just listen with heart...

Yah, see, I couldn't grasp any of this due to the fact it has been reinforced in me not to. You actually mean it - I can see this now. But if you are an individual that is inclined to take people at their word...an expressed preference for 'honest communication' will get you burned nearly every time haha (I'm laughing so I don't cry). I mean it when I say I am a hundred times more likely to piss someone off on this site when I have no negative intent or judgment whatsoever...I'm merely expressing my truth...than when I've completely lost my patience and am actually being shitty on purpose. <-no joke. My prediction is that in the very near future disagreeing with another member will be against the FAQs. There is a stereotypical Fe/social dom-styled preference here where different opinion = trolling (people that are not on the same page are suspect) so people do take to using charm and enchantment when expressing alternative viewpoints and is why you are and will be the only male in the past, present and future of TypoC that would ever choose me over Amargith for their hypothetical wife haha. Yah this was all so very confusing for me.

In the spirit of honest communication though I should warn you before the hypothetical wedding that my over-attachment to those same things...honor, loyalty, courage, truth, humility...makes me a reactive bitch. I will take an elevator to the saddle of my horse to sound my self-righteous alarm in an effort to protect those I can from all that can and will go wrong when those qualities are missing. I sound like the 2nd girlfriend you describe. (And once again I will need to return to this very interesting exchange - thanks for it.)
 
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