sculpting
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After a disagreement or emotional misunderstanding, I have seen myself and other ENFPs engage in a large amount of rationalization and dissection of what went wrong. I have seen Fe users comment that “I don’t want to hear all of the crap, just don’t do it again†or say “You are overthinking things.†I have also seen others more negatively imply we are justifying our actions via rationalization.
I thought in light of onemoretime’s comment:
This was a useful contrast to what may be happening in an ENFP and why ENFPs do this sort of post disagreement dissection.
When an ENFP has an intense emotional event occur, we have to figure out what went wrong so we do not repeat. We analyze the event with Te to map out what went wrong, how it went wrong and what we could have done differently. Since Te is extroverted we will do this aloud and will typically share with the person we hurt or were in disagreement with. This can be tainted with all sorts of emo, of course-the frame is Te, but the content could be all types of emo stuff-pure emotion, Fi judgements and other sorts of crap. It could all be wrong, pure BS, true rationalization of our incorrect response....
We desire to have them respond in turn and correct our misunderstandings. A mutual Te-Te style discussion where we work out where the problem came from and each walk away having learned lessons about what not to repeat-with total forgiveness and no grudges held.
(I like Uumlaus description of a Te-Te interaction as Quality Assurance. This makes a great deal of sense. I tell you my facts and seek for you to correct my errors.)
However-in light one onemoretime’s comment…to a Ti-Fe user this extroverted rationalization may come across incorrectly. Fe rebukes seem to promote internal Ti rationalization…not external Te discussion. Thus the enfp discussion either is just annoying and seemingly not needed, appears as endless justification, or appears as over-rationalization.
Problematically, without this externalized discussion….the issue never really feels resolved. How can I be certain that you will not do the same thing again in the future if we never establish what went wrong or right on this occurance? There is no sense of closure.
So this is my take on the subject…..which of course could always be endlessly flawed (please refer to Te quality assurance above )
So my questions-
1) Do other ENFPs see this need for discussion in themselves? Have others seen this in ENFPs around them?
2) If so, what does this look like from other perspectives? If I am interacting with an Fe/Ti person, how do I know they have learned from the encounter and trust they will not repeat what went wrong on their end? How can I more effectively have a post disagreement discussion that doesnt frustrate them? Should I just skip any discussions?
I thought in light of onemoretime’s comment:
I remember a few months back when we talked about the "Fi-nudge" and how it hit me the wrong way. I'm now beginning to realize that this is the "Fe-nudge", and why it feels manipulative to you. In reality, this is often simply done to gently remind a person to think about someone other than themselves, and act accordingly. It doesn't feel manipulative, because the intended response to it is to go through a thought process of one's own that would inevitably lead to the conclusion that the "nudger" was trying to impart. If any negative reaction occurs, it's the frustration (in Freudian terms) of the id being smacked down by the superego - you know it's right, but you're mad that a.) you let yourself slip and get selfish and b.) that you don't get to satisfy that desire. You don't feel manipulated, though, because the other person's right, and was simply reminding you to think the whole thing through.
However, if you're not prone to go through that thought process (you could see this as the Fe-Ti bridge), the only thing this would appeal to is the nature of one's relationship with that person, and the fear of the deterioration of that relationship. The use of fear to coerce is the very definition of manipulation, so I understand why you could see it that way.
This was a useful contrast to what may be happening in an ENFP and why ENFPs do this sort of post disagreement dissection.
When an ENFP has an intense emotional event occur, we have to figure out what went wrong so we do not repeat. We analyze the event with Te to map out what went wrong, how it went wrong and what we could have done differently. Since Te is extroverted we will do this aloud and will typically share with the person we hurt or were in disagreement with. This can be tainted with all sorts of emo, of course-the frame is Te, but the content could be all types of emo stuff-pure emotion, Fi judgements and other sorts of crap. It could all be wrong, pure BS, true rationalization of our incorrect response....
We desire to have them respond in turn and correct our misunderstandings. A mutual Te-Te style discussion where we work out where the problem came from and each walk away having learned lessons about what not to repeat-with total forgiveness and no grudges held.
(I like Uumlaus description of a Te-Te interaction as Quality Assurance. This makes a great deal of sense. I tell you my facts and seek for you to correct my errors.)
However-in light one onemoretime’s comment…to a Ti-Fe user this extroverted rationalization may come across incorrectly. Fe rebukes seem to promote internal Ti rationalization…not external Te discussion. Thus the enfp discussion either is just annoying and seemingly not needed, appears as endless justification, or appears as over-rationalization.
Problematically, without this externalized discussion….the issue never really feels resolved. How can I be certain that you will not do the same thing again in the future if we never establish what went wrong or right on this occurance? There is no sense of closure.
So this is my take on the subject…..which of course could always be endlessly flawed (please refer to Te quality assurance above )
So my questions-
1) Do other ENFPs see this need for discussion in themselves? Have others seen this in ENFPs around them?
2) If so, what does this look like from other perspectives? If I am interacting with an Fe/Ti person, how do I know they have learned from the encounter and trust they will not repeat what went wrong on their end? How can I more effectively have a post disagreement discussion that doesnt frustrate them? Should I just skip any discussions?