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[MBTI General] INFP - good match to INTP?

nolla

Senor Membrane
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May 22, 2008
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3,166
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INFP
He's 26, I'm 25. I guess where I live, that's viewed as a bit old to not be married yet. I really want to be married before I'm 30... it's a source of constant stress for me. I feel like that's one of the things I need to do to feel like an accomplished adult.

Could you explain how it works like that? It might be due to different culture, but I don't see how being married has anything to do with being seen as an adult.

And if it comes about that he and I don't get married, then the pool of unmarried men will be so much smaller by the time we break up, that maybe I would have to settle with someone that wasn't the best match for me.

Tell me if I'm wrong but this sounds like you think there would be less of a chance breaking up if you were married. (I also think you shouldn't mention this to him, as it might seem very calculating)

I suppose that could be it, too. But I think he needs to realize that I don't want to be someone's girlfriend for the rest of my life either.

Why not? I get the feeling this is about outward appearances. Usually INFPs are hard to make do anything just for the sake of pleasing "the crowd".

Yeah, maybe I'm weird or something. I guess I just see a relationship as a sort of life-project that I want to keep working on and perfecting, where he seems to see it as a 'wherever life takes us' sort of thing.

The wherever-life-takes-us is what to me is the whole beauty of it. It would be difficult to convince me that marriage can effect the quality of the relationship and make it more "perfect".

BTW, I kinda feel like an asshole now, since I am basically opposing everything you see important, but maybe it is better that you get a very marriage-critical point of view here from some anonymous jerk, than from your boyfriend..? At least you'll know what to expect... maybe...
 

stringstheory

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BTW, I kinda feel like an asshole now, since I am basically opposing everything you see important, but maybe it is better that you get a very marriage-critical point of view here from some anonymous jerk, than from your boyfriend..? At least you'll know what to expect... maybe...

not that i disagree with you (i'm actually in the same boat), but if it's important to her, it's important to her. I agree examining such feelings is a good idea especially if you really love someone, and it's good to get an understanding of why someone can value issues so differently. but just as the INFP shouldn't compromise his values, neither should she or anyone else if it would truly upset them to do so.

If the issue is, in fact, a difference in values and a compromise can't be reached i don't think either party should have to cater to the other's whim.
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
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A few conversations I've had with him have came to 'why do you want to get married at all?' or things like 'I love you and I'm not going to leave you, so why do we need to get married?' I guess in my mind, if he wants a lifetime relationship, why NOT get married?

I bet he would get married if there wasn't something in the way. I mean, I would try to please someone I loved unless there is something important value I would have to sacrifice in the process.

I wish he would just tell me 'when this happens and this, then I would feel comfortable getting married.' Then we could work towards those things.

This is something an INFP won't do. We don't like schedules nor giving orders.

Make it known that you don't feel like he's been clear and the open-endedness of a situation that is actually very important to you is giving you a hard time. Ask him to elaborate about why he feels the way he does about marriage; i'm inclined to think he won't have a problem articulating that if you just ask. if he is not aware that marriage is something that means a lot to you, then make sure he knows.

Is he just staying with me until he finds someone better? Is there a trait in me he's already decided that isn't acceptable, and plans on moving on eventually?

I think these two points are excellent to start with. You should definitely try to make him see how it is making you feel and then try to get his point of view. If there is something he fiercely opposes in marriage, I am sure there is a way to get around it and kinda turn the ceremony into something you both can agree with.
 

Dyoni

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Ah, that answers that then....

Make it known that you don't feel like he's been clear and the open-endedness of a situation that is actually very important to you is giving you a hard time. Ask him to elaborate about why he feels the way he does about marriage; i'm inclined to think he won't have a problem articulating that if you just ask. if he is not aware that marriage is something that means a lot to you, then make sure he knows. make this point right here really clear.

Yeah, I think I just need to bring it up again and try to get more exact answers. He definitely knows that it's important to me, though... I'm not very good at being subtle >.<

So what do you think would make marriage an attractive prospect to an INFP? Maybe I can try to bring up things that he would think were important that I haven't thought of.
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
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So what do you think would make marriage an attractive prospect to an INFP? Maybe I can try to bring up things that he would think were important that I haven't thought of.

It should be enough if he knows how much it means to you, and if it is fairly easy for him to just come along. :newwink:

I don't think there is anything you can do or say to make the marriage itself seem more important, but you can make it as stress-free for him as possible. Then he would probably do it for you, not for the marriage.
 

Dyoni

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Could you explain how it works like that? It might be due to different culture, but I don't see how being married has anything to do with being seen as an adult.

It might be due to growing up in Utah in a family that was partially Mormon. Even though I don't belong to a religion, I think of it as an accomplishment that I would like to work toward.

Tell me if I'm wrong but this sounds like you think there would be less of a chance breaking up if you were married. (I also think you shouldn't mention this to him, as it might seem very calculating)

I know that divorce is very common, but I still think marriage is a higher level of commitment that just being boyfriend/girlfriend. Also, I actually did bring that up, and he seemed put off. It was awkward. : /

Why not? I get the feeling this is about outward appearances. Usually INFPs are hard to make do anything just for the sake of pleasing "the crowd".

It is to a small extent, but more about how I see myself.

The wherever-life-takes-us is what to me is the whole beauty of it. It would be difficult to convince me that marriage can effect the quality of the relationship and make it more "perfect".

That's okay with me - I think his romanticism is endearing. I just want that 'road of life' to come to marriage eventually. The uncertainty makes me feel insecure.

BTW, I kinda feel like an asshole now, since I am basically opposing everything you see important, but maybe it is better that you get a very marriage-critical point of view here from some anonymous jerk, than from your boyfriend..? At least you'll know what to expect... maybe...

LOL! Don't worry, I like people being blunt with me. I don't think you need to walk on eggshells with many NTs ;)
 

stringstheory

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Yeah, I think I just need to bring it up again and try to get more exact answers. He definitely knows that it's important to me, though... I'm not very good at being subtle >.<

So what do you think would make marriage an attractive prospect to an INFP? Maybe I can try to bring up things that he would think were important that I haven't thought of.

like i said, the point you made about taking his "yeah, nothing really WOULD change" point and making it into, "but it means a lot to me and so it would be something simple that wouldn't change anything except make me feel more secure" is something that would convince me personally. Be prepared to explain, though, why you are not secure otherwise. It's possible it might make him suspicious.

To us, values can equal identity. We can get very irritable and upset if we feel someone is trying to change our values, and therefore our identity. now, approaching it with this in mind, but from YOUR point of view will give you some common ground and that may help the both of you. Here's the rub though....if his values are very much set against it, then there isn't much you can do. You do NOT, by any means, want to push an NFP too far in terms of changing his mind about his values (especially if they are strongly held). Keep this in mind and be aware that if it's a big enough issue for both of you, it may be a big indicator that neither of you will get what you want out of the relationship.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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What does it take for an INFP to change his/her values? You should be rather steadfast in your ways as Fi is at the forefront, but you seem to accept others freely. What experiences have shown you that you need to adjust your values, if this has ever happened at all?
 

nolla

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Hmmm... changing values? This is turning into a drama now... :yes:

For me these values that I hold to are about the only thing that's constant about me. Think of an INFP as a rock covered with jelly. Lots of jelly. From afar it looks like a planet made of jelly, and you can poke all you want and even mold it into something. But then you find the rock and it won't move. At all.

Well, these values do change from time to time, but for me that has only happened by some dramatic change in circumstances or through prolonged periods of self-reflection. Even then, it can take months or years, and it doesn't happen without me being very active in doing it. So, in my opinion

1) there is no way anyone can make an INFP change the core values in the direction they want. It could be possible to prod me into self-reflection (through some questionable methods) but I think it will be very hard to predict which way I go with my thoughts. So it is not worth it.

2) it will be too slow.

Because of the unpredictability of the value changing, I would suggest a little tweaking on the marriage. If all that matters is that you get married, then why not take anything away from the wedding that he disagrees with? Does it need to be in a church? Do you need many quests? Does the promise have to be "until death do us apart" or can it be "until I don't feel the love anymore"? :)
 

Ichikurosaki

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I would have to say that, although I would like to get married..it's the fact that I'd be tied down that would bother me. Sure, I'd love to have that one person with me for the rest of my life, but I wouldn't want to be forced to have them with me for the rest of my life by marriage..hmmm
 

runvardh

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I would have to say that, although I would like to get married..it's the fact that I'd be tied down that would bother me. Sure, I'd love to have that one person with me for the rest of my life, but I wouldn't want to be forced to have them with me for the rest of my life by marriage..hmmm

And see, as trepiditious as locking down options would be, my thoughts are if a girl is good enough for me to really, truly feel I want to stay with her for the rest of my life, statistically I will never or darn near not find anyone better in an appreciable amount of time. This may have something to do with insecurities and values, though.
 

hilo

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Hmm... I do relate to not wanting to get married. I don't know if all of these are INFP issues, but I try to summarize anyhow, so you can see if it could be any of these:

1) My idea about love and trust is that you want to be with someone now and hope for it to be lasting. Not to have to "make a deal" about staying together forever. It is not true if I say I will always love you, "no matter what". I don't see how I could make that promise, and I want to stay true to myself and not make promises I don't know I can keep.

2) I don't believe in god, so it is morally irrelevant if I get married or not.

3) I don't want to have any legal issues mixed with love.

4) I think that weddings are pretty weird situations altogether. I feel uncomfortable talking about my feelings in front of an audience.

5) I don't believe in "owning" people and I feel like marriage is to claim your ownership over me.

The only way I could imagine myself "getting married" and enjoying it would be if it was a very private party with the intention to celebrate the fact that we are together now, and no promises would be made and there would be no god or law involved. I would like to have a ring, though. :smile:

I hope I don't sound too harsh... I tried to get all of my prejudices about marriage as clearly stated as possible so that you could have more info than if I was being politically correct with it. Basically the idea is that I don't feel I would get anything out of marriage, but I like the idea of celebrating love.

Tell me, why do you want so much to get married?


Wow, this is EXACTLY how I feel. It took almost getting married to figure that out, though...

To the OP: I am curious also why you want to get married so much? I thought I wanted it once, but I realized it was just bowing to pressure from everyone else (even while I told myself I wasn't because I was doing things differently). When I REALLY looked at the issues I came to the same conclusions as posted above. Not that all INTP must have the same opinions obviously, but if you are very pro-marriage I find that interesting.

EDIT: Somehow I missed the additional pages discussing your feelings on this so feel free to ignore.

However I still think Nolla has stolen some of my thoughts.
 

stringstheory

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What does it take for an INFP to change his/her values? You should be rather steadfast in your ways as Fi is at the forefront, but you seem to accept others freely. What experiences have shown you that you need to adjust your values, if this has ever happened at all?

For me, i am constantly evaluating and re-evaluating my values as new evidence and experiences come in. Values often have the potential to be conflicting, so evaluating them and looking for such inconsistences becomes necessary, especially so when they are important to personal identity. This is a process that people help facilitate, but not force.

for example my views on marriage. Eventually when i was 18 or 19 I started to question my desire to get married; it might seem strange but once i actually thought about why i simply accepted marriage as something you just do, I realized most of my reasons for going along with that did not have much to do with my own desires to get married. When i evaluated this, i really thought about things like, "what place does marriage have in my ideal life?" "how important is my career to me?" etc.

Eventually i decided that I would have to be in a position where I would have to find a romantic situation that was otherwise compatible with my goals and other values. Following the traditional ways of marriage and family is not something that appeals to me unless other goals and values are first satisfied. This process took years to get where it did.

people helped facilitate these thoughts best when i didn't think they had an ulterior motive or trying to promote their beliefs as The Way, just when i thought they were utilizing their experiences/beliefs as a guide to help me wade through my questions. Or, if someone i truly care about is affected by my decisions. That's why, if my reasons for ambivalence about marriage were similar to the OPs boyfriend, her saying something like "I know it doesn't change much, but the one thing it would change is how secure i feel in this relationship and yeah, things wouldn't change otherwise", it would cause me to re-evaluate.
 

Dyoni

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For me these values that I hold to are about the only thing that's constant about me. Think of an INFP as a rock covered with jelly. Lots of jelly. From afar it looks like a planet made of jelly, and you can poke all you want and even mold it into something. But then you find the rock and it won't move. At all.

Okay. I think what I need to do is show him that is doesn't really go against his 'rock' core values. He's never said to me 'I'm opposed to marriage on moral grounds,' so hopefully that's not the case.

Because of the unpredictability of the value changing, I would suggest a little tweaking on the marriage. If all that matters is that you get married, then why not take anything away from the wedding that he disagrees with? Does it need to be in a church? Do you need many quests? Does the promise have to be "until death do us apart" or can it be "until I don't feel the love anymore"? :)

That's a good idea, too. I've never really gotten into what I would actually like to do for a marriage - mostly because I have it planned out to great detail, and I'm worried that revealing that I've already planned it when we're not even engaged would make me look sort of crazy. I just want us to go on a vacation/honeymoon where we could elope, then come back and have a small reception afterward with our friends and family. I definitely don't want it to be in a church or have any mention to religions that we don't believe in.

Or maybe bringing up details would make him feel like I was pushing him into it. I tried showing him a few ring sets on Etsy that I had found that I thought he would like, and he was responsive at first and then seemed to become less so...

To the OP: I am curious also why you want to get married so much? I thought I wanted it once, but I realized it was just bowing to pressure from everyone else (even while I told myself I wasn't because I was doing things differently). When I REALLY looked at the issues I came to the same conclusions as posted above. Not that all INTP must have the same opinions obviously, but if you are very pro-marriage I find that interesting.

Would it be more common for an INTJ to want to be married than INTP? Some tests I take said I was INTJ instead. Or maybe I'm just unusual. *sigh* I guess it has just always seemed like the logical 'next step' in a relationship. Even Seven of Nine got married, right...? haha.
 

hilo

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Would it be more common for an INTJ to want to be married than INTP? Some tests I take said I was INTJ instead. Or maybe I'm just unusual. *sigh* I guess it has just always seemed like the logical 'next step' in a relationship. Even Seven of Nine got married, right...? haha.

Not necessarily, though I think the way you talk about planning things out and really seeing it as a necessary future condition reminds me of INTJ more than INTP. On the other hand, you have also raised reasons which are for better or worse external (even mentioning Seven of Nine above - this seems more like an an appeal to what everyone else does, not what is "right" with you) and not internally motivated. Of course I suspect even for INTJ types that these internalized convictions ultimately root elsewhere, but I am not one so it is hard to say.

Perhaps I should not push you on this, but have you considered how you would feel if you were dumped into a world where marriage was extremely uncommon? Imagine if you had to go around to everyone and explain what a husband was, what marriage was, and why you did it. (For the purposes of this exploration, imagine the legal advantages are available without marriage). Would you still feel it was the natural next step?
 

Red Herring

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I think nolla mentioned some very good points.

"I´ll feel more adult", "People will see me as more adult", "It is on my checklist of things I want to have done before I´m 30" and "I´ll feel more secure" are not reasons that will convice a typical INFP, I´m afraid. These reasons have little to do with your relationship (because somebody hypersensitive might read into it that you like the thought of getting married rather than wanting to marry HIM, specifically) and a lot with what you want for yourself and how you feel about yourself. An INFP might wonder where he fits into all this.

For the sake of clarity: I´m not saying you´re being selfish or that you don´t love your boyfriend or that this has to be the reason he hesitates. And it might be a cultural thing (where I live being unmarried in your late twenties or early thirties is quite normal and so is living together unmarried at any age), but it caught my attention when I read your posts.

There is no guarantee that carrying a ring will make you feel better about yourself (more mature, more accomplished, more respected). If it really is this important to you and there are no strings attached for him (and he might think that strings are what marriage is all about) you might eventually get him to agree because he loves you and he wants to see you happy. You said that marriage is yet another level of emotional commitment. This is the one argument you mentioned that might get through to a feeler! So you might want to try that angle (without making it sound like you´re putting a gun to his head while holding some handcuffs in the other hand ;-)

The differences you are experiencing seem to be more about personal values than about type and the NF-NT combination can work wonderfully. Good luck!
 

nolla

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He's never said to me 'I'm opposed to marriage on moral grounds,' so hopefully that's not the case.

Even if he is, he might not be against all aspects of marriage. If you can make him think about what he is against in it, then you will get somewhere. It is quite possible that he just feels "something" about it that he doesn't like, and you should try to get him to be more specific. Personally I analyze my attitudes and divide them to pieces and try to see what it is about. When I am confronted with something I haven't thought about, I might get a feeling of disagreement, but I might not know immediately what it is about, so I have to focus on it and see what it is. Remember that with INFPs it won't be clear in a minute. I think he will have to consider it for some time.

How to tell him to do this might be tricky, as he obviously needs to be motivated finding out, and if he is forced into it, he won't take it seriously.
 

infpBlog

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I've been married to an INTJ for 14 years now. I was 26 and she was 24. I got married because I wanted to get married. It's as simple as that.

Here's on thing you have to consider. Women marry the right person. Men marry at the right time.

I've seen this across all MBTI types. A committed relationship whether it's marriage or something else has a schedule. Sometimes we want to get our life together first. Maybe we want to travel and see what's out there. It's different from guy to guy but a committed relationship only happens after other things happen first.

However, marriage like any long term relationships is work. You can't change people and you can't assume he will change. Unless he's demonstrated a history of self-motivated change, what you get now will be what you get for the rest of your life including all the problems that come the way he is now. If he's emotional, withdrawn and avoid dealing with issues, that's probably not going to change. Can you live with that?

Do you have similar values because interests will change? My wife and I don't like similar movies or books anymore. However, the things that are important to me (our kids, family, growth, change, etc) are important to her so we've always grown in the same direction.

I guess my question is how do you know he's the right guy? Marriage is work. You can't coast. Love is a terrible reason to get married. Because day-to-day living with another person isn't going to magically be easy just because you love them. Love isn't a relationships skill. The three biggest reasons for break in order are money, sex and kids. If you have money issues then loving someone more isn't going to solve that issue. Communication, learning to compromise, figuring out how to find balance, learning to delay gratification are relationship skills. How good are either of you at those things?

Also, INFPs learn by experiencing. So unless your INFP has been in another long term committed relationship before you, he's not going to understand the work involved and won't be able to find the balance inside himself to deal with that.

Every INFP I know personally has been divorced at least once. I haven't because I didn't marry my first love. I made all the long-term relationship mistakes with that one so I didn't make them when I got married. Has he made all his long-term relationships mistakes yet or are you willing to be the test case?
 
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