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  1. #41
    The Bat Man highlander's Avatar
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    I haven't read all this thread and apologize for being repetitive in advance.

    I think it important to express your emotions. Anger is one of those. The important thing is to use/leverage your emotions in a positive way.

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  2. #42
    Senior Member lightsun's Avatar
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    Highlander wrote, :...express your emotions..." Yes as long as one does not be overcome with passion, which will cloud one's thoughts and also perceptions of reality. Then one can act unworthy. One must know they are the power and influence of clouded judgment. There needs to be a walking away and reflect, unless there is imminent peril.

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    Senior Member lightsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    This rationalizing seems to be just a different way of repressing the anger. What I want to know is if the anger went away, or if it was displaced?
    My initial anger dissipated. I went home happy. I am glad that my anger did not get out of control. I am glad my mental discipline took over. I was glad I had a flash of insight and that I pulled away from irrational actions which would have compounded the situation. All in all it was a cleansing experience. I realized and used the training I received. That is saying a negative and triggered emotion has at its root cognitive distortions. The person is not dealing with reality but rather a projected emotion having basis for as example as a perceived threat to one's ego. It was for me metaphorically an illusion (my initial anger in the situation) which I dissipated.
    LightSun Paul Peaceweaver

  4. #44
    Senior Member lightsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    To me, anger is often a manifestation of Fi. I experience anger because one of my fundamental values has been violated. This is usually on behalf of others rather than myself. I suppose I consider myself sufficiently in control of what happens to me directly that any anger I feel at personal affronts and inconveniences is mild and fleeting. When I experience the outrage/anger, though, I step back and determine exactly what principle was violated, what the real impact is, and what if anything I am in a position to do about it constructively. In this way, I try to use anger rather than let it control me.
    Coriolis wrote, (1) "...anger is often a manifestation of Fi...experience anger...one of my fundamental values...been violated." and "...behalf of others rather than myself." and (2) " I suppose I consider myself sufficiently in control of what happens to me directly that any anger I feel at personal affronts and inconveniences is mild and fleeting."

    Coriolis some background on my part. As a child growing up in the dysfunctional household I came from I was a "freeze" victim. It's a little pet peeve of mine if I view a legal show. They typically discuss the flight or fight response. This is inaccurate. There are actually three avenues of fight, flight or freeze. Picture a deer caught in the headlights. My father had what is called explosive anger.

    One minute he is fine. He was however a perfectionist with little patience. When working with him and assisting him on jobs if I did not perform fast enough or to his satisfaction I was dutifully labeled as fool, son of a bitch as well bastard. So whenever I was assisting him I sat frozen waiting for his command. It is a prime reason in my belief that I am not anger prone. It is a complete rarity in my life.

    (4) "...I experience...outrage/anger...I step back...determine exactly what principle was violated, what the real impact is, and what if anything I am in a position to do about it constructively."


    I echo you in parallel fashion. My motto is problem solve or refocus but the worst thing is to dwell on a situation. I can either solve it now, later or it is not in my power. I am rather stoic about.
    LightSun Paul Peaceweaver

  5. #45
    Senior Member lightsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Anger is most often a symptom of an underlying feeling, usually fear, shame, hurt or embarrassment.
    And most times the anger is about you, and you feeling those feelings
    Anger has many variables. One is a perceived attack on one's ego and perceived attack on one's value system. A main precursor of anger and all negative emotions are hidden unconscious triggers of unresolved conflict. When a person displays anger in this regard they are projecting their internal problem outwardly unto the world or other people. I don't have the scientific data to support this but an internal locus of control may be angry more at themselves.

    The positive aspect of an internal locus of control person is that the person takes self responsibility for their thoughts, feelings and actions. Also their self esteem is internally based. The external locus of control person may I believe be more predisposed to blame others and life's circumstances for their emotional turmoil. This is for the most part a fallacy. Our emotions reside within. It is internal and external triggers that bring these volatile emotions to the surface.

    These emotions are always there and are a direct reflection of the persons unfinished business, unresolved conflict and unhealed psychic wounds. A trigger removes the bandage or defenses of the individual so that the person re-experiences the ghosts of old emotions. They will not subside until dealt with. Unfortunately these psychic wounds have developed coping mechanisms that aren't entirely healthy but are defense mechanisms or avoidance behaviors.

    To change these ingrained behaviors and patterns is extremely difficult. if the problematic issues warrant it counseling may be needed to develop newer more responsible courses of action when faced with adversity and dealing with the emotional triggers brought to the surface. It is precisely at the time of faced difficulty that the trigger and its associated thoughts may be examined. This is a time for change to manifest by developing newer better suited and more efficient coping behaviors.
    LightSun Paul Peaceweaver

  6. #46
    Senior Member lightsun's Avatar
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    When angry the trick is to deescalate oneself by removing yourself from the situation or refocusing unto another task. Anger has many variables. One is a perceived attack on one's ego and perceived attack on one's value system. With anger comes intolerance and the battle is lost. Your emotions rule you. You have yet to master the discipline of being in tune with your inner subconscious thoughts in order to first weed out cognitive discrepancies and then replace the distorted thoughts with more reasonable and realistic thoughts.

    A main precursor of anger and all negative emotions are hidden unconscious triggers of unresolved conflict and unfinished business on your part. When a person displays anger in this regard they are projecting their internal problem outwardly unto the world or other people. If you are in a situation where anger is present know that first underlying all angry emotions are cognitive distortions. The only time anger can be deemed to be rational is if one is in physical pain or is in fear for their own life or the life of someone they love.

    If one has anger it is important to not act giving in to the anger. A danger is if you give in to anger it escalates as pouring gasoline unto a fire. Your brain is being flooded with chemicals and hormones. Anger is in a sense a temporary psychosis. A sure sign for me of distorted reasoning is when a person speaks with an angry heart. So what does one do if they happen to be an angry individual? Seek counsel and multiple viewpoints before making a decision. You are not dealing with the situation in a rational way. The best course of action is to walk away if one can, cool off, collect one's thoughts and wait till you are more clear headed before you take a course of action or make a decision.

    Making the mistake of giving in to anger to protect one's ego is like blowing on the embers of a fire. You in effect pour gasoline on the fires of your passion and it engulfs you. As such it is a poison to one's inner harmony and peace. No one can really make you angry but yourself and the distorted thoughts. Actions made during times of anger are self-destructive and to be regretted. Removing oneself from the situation can avoid a lot of misery both to oneself and to others. Anger is a cancer to oneself and to society. I don't have the scientific data to support this but an internal locus of control may be angry more at themselves. The positive aspect of an internal locus of control person is that the person takes self responsibility for their thoughts, feelings and actions. Also their self esteem is internally based.

    The external locus of control person may I believe be more predisposed to blame others and life's circumstances for their emotional turmoil. This is for the most part a fallacy. Our emotions reside within. It is internal and external triggers that bring these volatile emotions to the surface. These emotions are always there and are a direct reflection of the persons unfinished business, unresolved conflict and unhealed psychic wounds. A trigger removes the bandage or defenses of the individual so that the person re-experiences the ghosts of old emotions. They will not subside until dealt with. Unfortunately these psychic wounds have developed coping mechanisms that aren't entirely healthy but are defense mechanisms or avoidance behaviors.

    Anger may be directed to correct societal wrongs but one must not let the anger consume them. Rather use it as fuel and act with reason and within the framework of the law. Anger can be a problem especially those who are anger prone. However you can elect to remain in control of your emotions so that they do not get out of hand and be the chariot driver of your controlled anger and so utilize anger in some constructive way to effect change.

    To change these ingrained behaviors and patterns is extremely difficult. if the problematic issues warrant it counseling may be needed to develop newer more responsible courses of action when faced with adversity and dealing with the emotional triggers brought to the surface. It is precisely at the time of faced difficulty that the trigger and its associated thoughts may be examined. This is a time for change to manifest by developing newer better suited and more efficient coping behaviors.

    Raising future generations in a more balanced learning atmosphere:
    I have this thinking if children would only be taught reason with love, safety and proper guidelines they would grow up with more self esteem, be more cognitively grounded and be less prone to anger. I believe a person nurtured with love and positive regard develops a better self -image and self-esteem. A person who is grounded with love feels better about themselves. Such a person has a better foundation of self and is better equipped to deal with the adversities of life and not necessarily be consumed by anger. They deal with reality more realistically because they see reality more clearly with less distortions in their thought process and develop a healthier early cognitive schema in their belief system.

    There are skill sets which can be taught to a child in early education which would behoove the child as well as society. This happens to be learning communication, critical thinking, active listening skills, emotional intelligence, empathy classes and cognitive mindfulness. This would allow the child to grow up in an environment of enlightening education where they are able to think for themselves freer of cognitive distortions. All these disciplines will make the child more aware of their thoughts and to be able to make more rational and better informed decisions. On the plus side the youth will likely have more maturity and be a more productive and happy member of society.

    Proactive preventive measures:
    In communication state your position, maintain boundaries and remove yourself from the situation if the person is seemingly argumentative and using emotional laden subjective statements that have numerous cognitive distortions. To be offended is a sign of your false ego being triggered. Rise above for it is an illusion. Remember it takes two people to communicate and two people to argue. Don't fall into an emotional trap. There happen being multiple anger skills which are possible. One, a cognitive oriented view is to be aware of your subconscious automatic thoughts, much like the mindfulness of Buddhism.

    Personal coping method utilized:
    When I get angry, depressed, guilt etc., I say, "It is a false illusion." There are distortions and unknown to me I have been projecting (the unhealed psychic wounds I have and are aspects of myself). When and if I become triggered how I cope is say to myself, "Okay, either problem solve or refocus on what I can do to take back a measure of control." Do what I can do and not necessarily what I wish to do. Refocus on another activity. Deal with the stresses after you have had some time to reflect and think about it. The worst possible thing one can do is ruminate on whatever caused your trigger. That way is like sinking in quicksand of your own misery. Finally I try riding the storm of emotion out and think, "And this too shall pass. Maybe tomorrow I will have a more pleasant day." It is rolling with the punches. I always am hoping always for the best.

    Using CBT Cognitive Behavior Therapy and REBT Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy in dealing with emotional conflict and distress:

    (1) There is an internal or external trigger which causes a negative unpleasant emotion. The cause of the emotional turmoil is not so much the event as our distorted perception of it.

    (2) We identify the distortion.

    (4) We replace it with a more realistic thought. Our emotional discomfort eases.

    (5) We take realistic action.

    Finally if medication is warranted:
    There is a chemical component, which is not addressed. There are chemical neurotransmitters in the brain. There is ACh or Acetylcholine and Norepinephrine: which are generally excitatory. Dopamine, serotonin, and endorphins are inhibitory. If there is a chemical imbalance in these areas then generally medication is warranted.

    Identified cognitive distortions, irrational ideas and fallacies of the thought process:

    I. Definitions of Cognitive Distortions:

    1. All or Nothing Thinking : We think in all or nothing, black and white, right or wrong categories, rather than seeing things more objectively, calmly, rationally and from many angles of truth.

    2. Over-generalization : You pick out one fact, comment or event and make it the totality of your sum experience. Example: You made a mistake on a test, and think you always or always will make mistakes.

    3. Mental Filter : You pick out a single negative detail and dwell on it exclusively so that your vision of all reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that colors the entire beaker of water. Ex. You get one bad compliment and it ruins your entire day.

    4a. Mind Reading Jumping to Conclusions : You think you know what someone is thinking of you. Many times a negative label.

    4b. Fortune Teller-Jumping to Conclusions : You anticipate that things will go bad for you.

    5a. Magnification : You magnify your characteristics, attributes, and successes in your mind. The narcissism effect.

    5b. Minimizing : You minimize other people's characteristics, virtues, successes, or attributes.

    6. Disqualifying the Positive : You reject positive experiences by insisting they don't count for some reason or other.In this way you can maintain a negative belief that is contradicted by your every day experiences.

    7. Emotional Reasoning: I feel it to be true so it must be true.

    8. Should statements. Self explanatory. I should/ought/must/have to; they/he/she-ought/must/should/have to; the world or reality or life- should/ought/must/have to.

    9a. Labeling: labeling, name calling, pejoratives of self or others

    9b. Mislabeling-labeling: Involves describing an event with language that is highly colored and emotionally loaded.

    10. Personalization: You blame yourself for something not in your control. I.E. You feel responsible for another person's actions or feelings. Or you blame yourself for how an event or experience turned out, that was not to your liking. (The above 10 distortions are taken from David D. Burns; Feeling Good (1980).

    II. A New Guide to Rational Living by Albert Ellis, PhD. & Robert A. Harper PhD. (1961, 1975). ([Rational-Emotive, basically similar to Cognitive Disciplinary mind set]. Albert Ellis, psychologist and psychotherapist. Here are his list of ten Irrational Beliefs that are responsible for most unhappiness. He spent his career trying to get people to actively avoid them. The page numbers are from his book, A Guide to Rational Living.

    (1) The idea that you must have love or approval from all the significant people in your life (101).

    (2) The idea that you absolutely must be thoroughly competent, adequate, and achieving or The idea that you must be competent or talented in some important area (115).

    (3) The idea that other people absolutely must not act obnoxiously and unfairly, and, that when they do, you should blame and damn them, and see them as bad, wicked, or rotten individuals (127).

    (4) The idea that you have to see things as being awful, terrible, and catastrophic when you are seriously frustrated or treated unfairly (139).

    (5) The idea that you must be miserable when you have pressures and difficult experiences; and that you have little ability to control, and cannot change, your disturbed feelings (155).

    (6) The idea that if something is dangerous or fearsome, you must obsess about it and frantically try to escape from it (163).

    (7) The idea that you can easily avoid facing many difficulties and self-responsibilities and still lead a highly fulfilling existence (177).

    (8) The idea that your past remains all-important and because something once strongly influenced your life, it has to keep determining your feelings and behavior today (187).

    (9) The idea that people and things absolutely must be better than they are and that it is awful and horrible if you cannot change life’s grim facts to suit you (197).

    (10) The idea that you can achieve maximum happiness by inertia and inaction or by passively and in an uncommitted fashion enjoy yourself (207).
    LightSun Paul Peaceweaver

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightsun View Post
    As a child growing up in the dysfunctional household I came from I was a "freeze" victim. It's a little pet peeve of mine if I view a legal show. They typically discuss the flight or fight response. This is inaccurate. There are actually three avenues of fight, flight or freeze. Picture a deer caught in the headlights. My father had what is called explosive anger.

    One minute he is fine. He was however a perfectionist with little patience. When working with him and assisting him on jobs if I did not perform fast enough or to his satisfaction I was dutifully labeled as fool, son of a bitch as well bastard. So whenever I was assisting him I sat frozen waiting for his command. It is a prime reason in my belief that I am not anger prone. It is a complete rarity in my life.

    (4) "...I experience...outrage/anger...I step back...determine exactly what principle was violated, what the real impact is, and what if anything I am in a position to do about it constructively."


    I echo you in parallel fashion. My motto is problem solve or refocus but the worst thing is to dwell on a situation. I can either solve it now, later or it is not in my power. I am rather stoic about.
    This is why you deny and repress anger, pretending it doesn't exist within you or when it erupts, repress it. That's no more healthy than your polar opposite father who exploded at everything.

    Look to what made you angry and if it's justified anger, focus the energy of your anger towards fixing the problem. If it's unjustified anger, then let it go.

  8. #48
    Senior Member lightsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    This is why you deny and repress anger, pretending it doesn't exist within you or when it erupts, repress it. That's no more healthy than your polar opposite father who exploded at everything.

    Look to what made you angry and if it's justified anger, focus the energy of your anger towards fixing the problem. If it's unjustified anger, then let it go.
    I can't instill enough in you I am not an angry prone person. I just don't get triggered and experience anger. I assure I am insightful and am self aware of my inner processes. As I said earlier there are three avenues in childhood to escape difficult circumstances. These are fight, flight or freeze. Because of circumstance I went the freeze route. In fact I have anxiety more than anger. If I hypothetically went the angry fight response in my early formative years, there then would be the more likely event this anger would carry over time and plague me in my adulthood. I am quite glad I am not anger prone. As I have also articulated the root cause of anger and all emotional disturbances are cognitive distortions in the thought process. I calmly and with stoicism deal with what is and do not exacerbate the problem by needless and irrational anger. I am just not hard-wired in that manner.
    LightSun Paul Peaceweaver

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightsun View Post
    I can't instill enough in you I am not an angry prone person. I just don't get triggered and experience anger. I assure I am insightful and am self aware of my inner processes. As I said earlier there are three avenues in childhood to escape difficult circumstances. These are fight, flight or freeze. Because of circumstance I went the freeze route. In fact I have anxiety more than anger. If I hypothetically went the angry fight response in my early formative years, there then would be the more likely event this anger would carry over time and plague me in my adulthood. I am quite glad I am not anger prone. As I have also articulated the root cause of anger and all emotional disturbances are cognitive distortions in the thought process. I calmly and with stoicism deal with what is and do not exacerbate the problem by needless and irrational anger. I am just not hard-wired in that manner.
    I didn't state that you were anger prone, only suggesting that anger shouldn't be repressed but like all other emotions, is a healthy emotion and one that should be treated as such.

    Btw, enneagram 9 when unhealthy, denies and represses anger.

  10. #50
    enough said
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    I didn't know it's a Te thing... Btw, how are these related?

    Actually, how you experience anger is to a large extend biological. I have been having anger management problems from early childhood, inherited by my father who developed a brain tumor and died when I was 9. And he was trying his best to control himself. When I say 'his best', I mean the best humanly possible because my father was exceptionally disciplined and composed person, yet, he was breaking walls when he got angry. It's a lot like the Hulk situation.

    It's not necessarily a matter of choice. You sometimes can't see it coming because it's a primal instinct that leads to instant adrenaline release. Concerning me and my father, it's due to highly irritable sensors which put us in a 'fight' mode very quickly - when you switch your viewing angle, because adrenaline dilates your pupils, you know things are slipping out of your control. If you don't relieve your anger with action, it 'hits' you internally. Trying to analyze yourself helps a lot, but forget about being spontaneous with people.

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