[ENFP] Common ENFP issues

[angelhair45]

yes, that's what i thought too by "oversensitive"; taking everything personally...

only way its improving for me is by accepting i am sensitive and that i take it personally and feel judged... i kind of talk to myself "it's okay, darling, you're sensitive, i understand you" not talking myself out of it with "it wasnt personal" because my feelings dont understand that language, rational. they understand only empathic approach... kind of getting through the feelings rather than talking myself out of them

I'm going to try your approach, I think it may work better than my own method.

 

[uumlau]

I'm going to try your approach, I think it may work better than my own method.

Actually, it works better for INTJs, too, though we can get away with the "you shouldn't feel that way" version for many decades before it wears thin.

My version is to just let myself feel the feelings. If I let them "pass through me", then I'm still centered when it's all done. If I try to make them bounce off of me, I'm rather battered after the process.

 

[Chloe]

Interesting. For me, I'm not trying to fight the feelings as much as I'm trying to realize it's not personal just because I feel it is. It's not an attack on my character just because I am feeling attacked.

Just need to add that i view it actually as it is attacK on my character because i feel that way, the "reality" doesnt really matter (=doesnt help) because i still perceived it as attack on my character. my feelings are there no matter how much i try to explain it differently by logic.
So if other person didnt do something wrong or wasnt mean but I got offended, I was still attacked in my lil head and I say to myself that it's okay to feel hurt because I DONT LIKE TO BE CRITICIZED.

I tried with "its not personal", didnt work, so I do this and it works better.

To Fi everything is attack on their character in a way.. at least to me... Somewhere deep inside its always personal especially before i started to accept it

 

[Rebe]

This helped me, Ennegram Four and Personal Growth.

Do not pay so much attention to your feelings; they are not a true source of support for you, as you probably already know. Remember this advice: "From our present perspective, we can also see that one of the most important mistakes Fours make is to equate themselves with their feelings. The fallacy is that to understand themselves they must understand their feelings, particularly their negative ones, before acting. Fours do not see that the self is not the same as its feelings or that the presence of negative feelings does not preclude the presence of good in themselves" (Personality Types, p. 172). Always remember that your feelings are telling you something about yourself as you are at this particular moment, not necessarily more than that.

 

[Chloe]

^^I am not a 4, so I dont know exactly... but I like metaphor for 4s that they are like a bird who breaks her wing in order to distract attention from nest with her "kids" ... which is kind of similar what the quote is saying.. that many feelings are distractions from real stuff

 

[Thalassa]

This helped me, Ennegram Four and Personal Growth.

Yeah, I agree that it is important to analyze feelings and understand them instead of always following pure feeling.

For example, I may feel a strong sense of Fi dislike for, indignation toward, even vengefulness toward someone I see as being a nasty, hateful person ... but then if I step back from that situation, sometimes I realize that person acts that way because they are broken in some way, and following my initial feeling isn't really the most sensible or effective course of action (this is probably Te/Si kicking in).

Or in another case, feeling intense jealousy isn't always a cue to act out and get angry or upset...it can just cause drama and arguments and push away the person you're getting jealous over, which is the opposite of what you really want.

Feelings are very, very important and I don't think they should be buried or ignored, but I do think it's imperitive to really think about what those feelings really mean instead of just acting on them.

 

[CzeCze]

sometimes i really want to speak up and just don't have the balls, and then regret it terribly. or do speak up and go overboard and regret that. oh to find the happy medium

I think this is a major nature of Fi that Fi doms/auxs have to master in life. I think Enneagram 8/wings and extroverts have a natural leg up - or rather, less of a deficit. This is one of my biggest battles in life, that karmic beast I have to slay. (BTW, I'm allowed to speak as hokily and cheesily as I want with as inane metaphors as I want because I am an ENFP and this is an ENFP thread :steam::steam::steam

The best way for an ENFP to master this is to fling yourself headforth into 'saying it on the spot' as soon as the impulse takes you and take the lumps and bumps along with the glory. For some of us, it's the only way we learn. LEARN being the operative word so you can adjust your behavior and better predict the outcome of when you speak. Sadly, a few loudmouth ENFPs never get the hang of this (like one of my rl ENFP male friends ) and neither do some frustrated ENFPs. But holding onto stuff and regret, that'll seriously twist you up eventually and change your personality.

But yeah, you basically have to get used to the rush of releasing emotion/idea immediately without overintellectualizing it or making it safe. It won't kill you. You might have a few seconds (or days) of agonizing wait to see what that outburst brought you but it won't kill you.

I think (most) ENFPs secretly or not so secretly live in fear of our own emotions, or our ability to basically handle what should be "basic human experiences". Since we have what feels like a whirlwind swirling inside and it can be disorienting even for ourselves so how can we translate it and express it in a way that makes sense to the rest of the world? I think it's common to have that feeling of "am I doing this right? is this what everyone else is feeling/doing? is how i am experiencing/interpreting this normal?" The Ne overload of stimuli + the Fi overload of response and interpretation - it's just a lot.

Or yikes maybe that is just me...hmm, don't think so though.

Also, I wanted to reply to Satine's reply to my reply but I'm falling asleep...

Consider this a placeholder - just wanted to say about liking the 'regulation of Fe'. In my own life and with close loved ones, I have no problem walking into deep, murky waters. I crave intimacy.

But, socially speaking, yes absolutely I think people should be aware of where they are and who they are talking to and regulate themselves. I am a big believer in etiquette and time and place for everything. I think I was born old fashioned that way (I'm also SO in Ennatype instincts, so that's probably a good sub for Fe? LOLOL) I'm not saying people should put on a show and pretend for the sake of other people, I mean, if you're sad, you're sad, etc. I respect and value the authenticity of what people feel in the moment like any good F'er I'm just saying, there is a time and place and *way* for everything.

Hmmm...I always thought ENFPs were (endearingly? lol) awkward when dealing even 1 on 1 with other people's pain and grief. I know other ENFPs have mentioned it on this forum.

Also...sorry again I'm so late on this party, but as for Fe itself - I've never had a problem with Fe. I thought people IRL loved Fe, for realz. It's warm, it's directive (as in it will try to step in and help you), it's thoughtful. I thought it was a trait that automatically made you popular. LOL. I haven't had any problems with Fe doms/auxs irl that I know of IRL. Well, maybe a few really obnoxious or type-A/Diva ones, but any type-A/Diva is likely to rub people the wrong way and they come in many types - they tend to be those damned loud mouthed extraverts though.

PPS damn 23 pages and I've yet to really read through, just ignore this post if it's all been discussed already.

 

[Amargith]

Op edited to include 10) Oversensitivity:

10) Oversensitivity. Because an ENFP struggles to tame the Fi-beast, and the pain can be intense, it is very easy to cause emotional turmoil in an ENFP, especially when addressing the part of them that they're either very proud of in a negative way, or the parts that they're very insecure about. The reason for this is that the ENFP is already aware of this, or doesn't feel accepted, and it's like rubbing salt into a wound or denying them the right to be themselves. An ENFP is also unlikely to go push other peoples buttons like that, unless they're for some reason oblivious to them (Ne-hyperdrive) or angry with that person for some reason (Te-hammer, lethal at that point!), and will most of the time feel really guilty about doing so later and likely appologize for it. For that reason, they can very much overreact when someone does point out their flaws or talk about their person (or what they perceive to be a personal attack in any case), as they themselves would never cause anyone willingly that kind of harm. Little do/did they know that others don't have that same experience and therefore do not respond in the same way. Often, I would envy those that were able to take criticism so well, but for the life of me did not understand how they remained so calm under it all, or didn't consider it rude.

I personally am still working with that one, but it helps to have baselines of what *you* want yourself to be AND to understand why other people set different standards. It gives you the option to step back, see why they say what they say, why it is that for you this causes that oversensitive reaction and if you should react at all. It takes a while to learn, but after a while that process goes almost automatic.

The only times it still happens to me is if a button is repeatedly pushed and it's one I'm still figuring out myself (aka, I do things a certain way, but haven't taken the time yet, or am in the process still of figuring out if I should change said behavior/response/way of being or not).

 

[Rebe]

But yeah, you basically have to get used to the rush of releasing emotion/idea immediately without overintellectualizing it or making it safe. It won't kill you. You might have a few seconds (or days) of agonizing wait to see what that outburst brought you but it won't kill you.

I think (most) ENFPs secretly or not so secretly live in fear of our own emotions, or our ability to basically handle what should be "basic human experiences". Since we have what feels like a whirlwind swirling inside and it can be disorienting even for ourselves so how can we translate it and express it in a way that makes sense to the rest of the world? I think it's common to have that feeling of "am I doing this right? is this what everyone else is feeling/doing? is how i am experiencing/interpreting this normal?" The Ne overload of stimuli + the Fi overload of response and interpretation - it's just a lot.

100% agree. I very rarely have outbursts when I am angry but the few times I did, it worked out well both times. It was (apparently) deserved on their parts, expressed my feelings (for the first time without being vague and defensive) and the results were very, very good. Sometimes people really do not know how you feel and they need to know but I have a rigid control/issue over how much to let others know so when my guard is down and I just hurl it at them, it is actually very effective. I see myself as having an emotional/angry tantrum during those times, which is very unnatural to my 'naturally cool demeanor'. I feel all ashamed, childish and exposed but ... sometimes they need to know exactly how you feel rationale and 'being strong and diplomatic' aside.

 

[skylights]

Sometimes people really do not know how you feel and they need to know but I have a rigid control/issue over how much to let others know so when my guard is down and I just hurl it at them, it is actually very effective. I see myself as having an emotional/angry tantrum during those times, which is very unnatural to my 'naturally cool demeanor'. I feel all ashamed, childish and exposed but ... sometimes they need to know exactly how you feel rationale and 'being strong and diplomatic' aside.

+ 923084574340954534

agreed. sometimes, when diplomacy just isn't working, it takes a Te-Fi attack to set things straight.

seriously though, it happens with my INTP dad rather often, and the result is typically that whatever point i had that was immediately dismissed by Ti finally gets across. not that it's always the best way or even really appropriate, but it is a surefire way to get my point to be taken seriously - and most of the time the result is "wow, that's a good point"

 

[Amargith]

Man...wanna trade dads? Mine just reacted the *exact* opposite...*is jealous*

 

[skylights]

Man...wanna trade dads? Mine just reacted the *exact* opposite...*is jealous*

aw, bummer, sorry. though a fair amount of the time, mine doesn't react that way either. i just wish he would take my opinion into consideration more easily.

actually, speaking of --

i'd like to add a misunderstanding to the list, if other ENFPs agree. it's kind of painful to write this, but i think it's important, because as much as i really don't want to admit it, i feel like ENFPs get blown off fairly often for not being serious enough.


Appearing shallow - Because ENFPs use Ne to take information, we tend to jet from topic to topic. As Perceiving types, we are also apt to associate with other points of view easily, and are always after more information. Add Fi to the mix, and it results in us being interested in, and caring about, pretty much anything that comes to mind. However, to those who don't know us as well, this can easily come off as superficiality, fake engagement, and wishy-washiness - in short, being shallow. We also love to be silly and sarcastic, and we tend to keep an overall light tone. This does not mean that we don't think about or understand pain, destruction, cruelty, and other darker or more serious things in life. Most of us do, far more often than we let on. However, we don't generally see it conflicting with our ability to have a good time: to us, it's all a part of the grand song and dance of life. Just like being considered uncaring or disloyal, shallow is one of the last things we would ever like to be called, and we don't mean to come off that way. Our interest is real, as is our care. If you need us to be more serious, just let us know.

 

[Thalassa]

Appearing shallow - Because ENFPs use Ne to take information, we tend to jet from topic to topic. As Perceiving types, we are also apt to associate with other points of view easily, and are always after more information. Add Fi to the mix, and it results in us being interested in, and caring about, pretty much anything that comes to mind. However, to those who don't know us as well, this can easily come off as superficiality, fake engagement, and wishy-washiness - in short, being shallow. We also love to be silly and sarcastic, and we tend to keep an overall light tone. This does not mean that we don't think about or understand pain, destruction, cruelty, and other darker or more serious things in life. Most of us do, far more often than we let on. However, we don't generally see it conflicting with our ability to have a good time: to us, it's all a part of the grand song and dance of life. Just like being considered uncaring or disloyal, shallow is one of the last things we would ever like to be called, and we don't mean to come off that way. Our interest is real, as is our care. If you need us to be more serious, just let us know.

I agree with all of this. I also think the lightness is necessary, because some people take themselves too seriously, and play is an important part of life. It's not just about negative things "interfering with our good time" it's also about wanting to bring happiness to a situation, because life is partly just BEING...you know..sometimes it would help people out to "just be" a little more. People can get bogged down in seriousness and negativity and that's not always healthy, either. It's a way of taking perspective.

I think ENFPs with strong Fi development can actually swing the other way and come across as EXTREMELY HEAVY at other times, just as we can come across as "shallow" or light.

 

[Lady_X]

aw, bummer, sorry. though a fair amount of the time, mine doesn't react that way either. i just wish he would take my opinion into consideration more easily.

actually, speaking of --

i'd like to add a misunderstanding to the list, if other ENFPs agree. it's kind of painful to write this, but i think it's important, because as much as i really don't want to admit it, i feel like ENFPs get blown off fairly often for not being serious enough.


Appearing shallow - Because ENFPs use Ne to take information, we tend to jet from topic to topic. As Perceiving types, we are also apt to associate with other points of view easily, and are always after more information. Add Fi to the mix, and it results in us being interested in, and caring about, pretty much anything that comes to mind. However, to those who don't know us as well, this can easily come off as superficiality, fake engagement, and wishy-washiness - in short, being shallow. We also love to be silly and sarcastic, and we tend to keep an overall light tone. This does not mean that we don't think about or understand pain, destruction, cruelty, and other darker or more serious things in life. Most of us do, far more often than we let on. However, we don't generally see it conflicting with our ability to have a good time: to us, it's all a part of the grand song and dance of life. Just like being considered uncaring or disloyal, shallow is one of the last things we would ever like to be called, and we don't mean to come off that way. Our interest is real, as is our care. If you need us to be more serious, just let us know.

i love this. so very true. i can be totally serious and have deep meaningful conversation but am very aware that to the majority i must come off very light...and perhaps lacking substance...and it's just so not true.

 

[Amargith]

OP edited to include your information on Shallowness, and correct you are, I'd say. Thnx for the sympathy

 

[sculpting]

ENFP Te rationalization?

After a disagreement or emotional misunderstanding, I have seen myself and other ENFPs engage in a large amount of rationalization and dissection of what went wrong. I have seen Fe users comment that “I don’t want to hear all of the crap, just don’t do it again” or say “You are overthinking things.” I have also seen others more negatively imply we are justifying our actions via rationalization.

I thought in light of onemoretime’s comment:

I remember a few months back when we talked about the "Fi-nudge" and how it hit me the wrong way. I'm now beginning to realize that this is the "Fe-nudge", and why it feels manipulative to you. In reality, this is often simply done to gently remind a person to think about someone other than themselves, and act accordingly. It doesn't feel manipulative, because the intended response to it is to go through a thought process of one's own that would inevitably lead to the conclusion that the "nudger" was trying to impart. If any negative reaction occurs, it's the frustration (in Freudian terms) of the id being smacked down by the superego - you know it's right, but you're mad that a.) you let yourself slip and get selfish and b.) that you don't get to satisfy that desire. You don't feel manipulated, though, because the other person's right, and was simply reminding you to think the whole thing through.

However, if you're not prone to go through that thought process (you could see this as the Fe-Ti bridge), the only thing this would appeal to is the nature of one's relationship with that person, and the fear of the deterioration of that relationship. The use of fear to coerce is the very definition of manipulation, so I understand why you could see it that way.

This was a useful contrast to what may be happening in an ENFP and why ENFPs do this sort of post disagreement dissection.

When an ENFP has an intense emotional event occur, we have to figure out what went wrong so we do not repeat. We analyze the event with Te to map out what went wrong, how it went wrong and what we could have done differently. Since Te is extroverted we will do this aloud and will typically share with the person we hurt or were in disagreement with. This can be tainted with all sorts of emo, of course-the frame is Te, but the content could be all types of emo stuff-pure emotion, Fi judgements and other sorts of crap. It could all be wrong, pure BS, true rationalization of our incorrect response....

We desire to have them respond in turn and correct our misunderstandings. A mutual Te-Te style discussion where we work out where the problem came from and each walk away having learned lessons about what not to repeat-with total forgiveness and no grudges held.

(I like Uumlaus description of a Te-Te interaction as Quality Assurance. This makes a great deal of sense. I tell you my facts and seek for you to correct my errors.)

However-in light one onemoretime’s comment…to a Ti-Fe user this extroverted rationalization may come across incorrectly. Fe rebukes seem to promote internal Ti rationalization…not external Te discussion. Thus the enfp discussion either is just annoying and seemingly not needed, appears as endless justification, or appears as over-rationalization.

Problematically, without this externalized discussion….the issue never really feels resolved. How can I be certain that you will not do the same thing again in the future if we never establish what went wrong or right on this occurance? There is no sense of closure.

So this is my take on the subject…..which of course could always be endlessly flawed (please refer to Te quality assurance above )

So my questions-

1) Do other ENFPs see this need for discussion in themselves? Have others seen this in ENFPs around them?

2) If so, what does this look like from other perspectives? If I am interacting with an Fe/Ti person, how do I know they have learned from the encounter and trust they will not repeat what went wrong on their end? How can I more effectively have a post disagreement discussion that doesnt frustrate them? Should I just skip any discussions?

 

[sculpting]

^^meant to post this as a new thread but I will leave it here as well, as it is something I see in ENFPs.

I
I think ENFPs with strong Fi development can actually swing the other way and come across as EXTREMELY HEAVY at other times, just as we can come across as "shallow" or light.

Marm, can you describe what this would look like-an ENFP with a very well developed Fi?

Honestly I always thought of Satine and Silly as having very well developed Fi-they can be delightfully light and beautifully funny-clever, but their Fi seems very well resolved??? They feel very strongly about their ideals and will openly strongly fight for them.... I really have no idea though, and could be totally wrong.

My crazy ass Ne makes me hyperspastic and subject hopping but my heavy Te can make me very somber and serious too. When I let people see Fi...well once an INTP here told me I sounded very childlike, infantile even. I have the Fi of a nin year old. So i dunno...

 

[Moiety]

aw, bummer, sorry. though a fair amount of the time, mine doesn't react that way either. i just wish he would take my opinion into consideration more easily.

actually, speaking of --

i'd like to add a misunderstanding to the list, if other ENFPs agree. it's kind of painful to write this, but i think it's important, because as much as i really don't want to admit it, i feel like ENFPs get blown off fairly often for not being serious enough.


Appearing shallow - Because ENFPs use Ne to take information, we tend to jet from topic to topic. As Perceiving types, we are also apt to associate with other points of view easily, and are always after more information. Add Fi to the mix, and it results in us being interested in, and caring about, pretty much anything that comes to mind. However, to those who don't know us as well, this can easily come off as superficiality, fake engagement, and wishy-washiness - in short, being shallow. We also love to be silly and sarcastic, and we tend to keep an overall light tone. This does not mean that we don't think about or understand pain, destruction, cruelty, and other darker or more serious things in life. Most of us do, far more often than we let on. However, we don't generally see it conflicting with our ability to have a good time: to us, it's all a part of the grand song and dance of life. Just like being considered uncaring or disloyal, shallow is one of the last things we would ever like to be called, and we don't mean to come off that way. Our interest is real, as is our care. If you need us to be more serious, just let us know.

Hmm, if there is one thing I've never been called is shallow.

 

[skylights]

I agree with all of this. I also think the lightness is necessary, because some people take themselves too seriously, and play is an important part of life. It's not just about negative things "interfering with our good time" it's also about wanting to bring happiness to a situation, because life is partly just BEING...you know..sometimes it would help people out to "just be" a little more. People can get bogged down in seriousness and negativity and that's not always healthy, either. It's a way of taking perspective.

Yeah. I really agree with this too. Just pure enjoyment in life is underrated!

When an ENFP has an intense emotional event occur, we have to figure out what went wrong so we do not repeat. We analyze the event with Te to map out what went wrong, how it went wrong and what we could have done differently. Since Te is extroverted we will do this aloud and will typically share with the person we hurt or were in disagreement with. This can be tainted with all sorts of emo, of course-the frame is Te, but the content could be all types of emo stuff-pure emotion, Fi judgements and other sorts of crap. It could all be wrong, pure BS, true rationalization of our incorrect response...[...]
Thus the enfp discussion either is just annoying and seemingly not needed, appears as endless justification, or appears as over-rationalization.
[...]
1) Do other ENFPs see this need for discussion in themselves? Have others seen this in ENFPs around them?

2) If so, what does this look like from other perspectives? If I am interacting with an Fe/Ti person, how do I know they have learned from the encounter and trust they will not repeat what went wrong on their end? How can I more effectively have a post disagreement discussion that doesnt frustrate them? Should I just skip any discussions?

1. Yes, definitely. When something goes poorly I want to break it down and find out why - and I figure that's exactly what Te means versus Ti - the answer is out there, but I have to work my way to it. It's not in me, unlike with Fi. Anyway, I think this has come off as self-centered before, but for me it's more like disaster management. I have a hard time knowing what it looks like from the other side, but I know I've annoyed Fe/Ti users with it before. At the same time, the Fe/Ti people I know well are mainly Fe doms, and being that and Js (and just lovely people) they are typically willing to walk it through with me quickly and point out what kinds of insensitive things I did.

2. I would really benefit from understanding this better too. Sometimes I find that if I write things out, then I can do Te-organizing without someone else first, and then debrief. But I have to admit that it's really nice to have someone around with grounded logic to help calm the emotional turbulence. When I'm worked up, just being around certain people calms me down... mostly Fe people, but I don't know how much that's just coincidence.

Hmm, if there is one thing I've never been called is shallow.

Me neither, aloud, but I think I've come off that way before. I suspect that four main variables also would tend to prevent this... 1, having strong and well-used across-the-board Te, 2, having well-developed stable Fi, 3, being more introverted, and 4, being older and/or a guy. Though maybe there's a better word for it than shallow?

 

[Thalassa]

Marm, can you describe what this would look like-an ENFP with a very well developed Fi?

Honestly I always thought of Satine and Silly as having very well developed Fi-they can be delightfully light and beautifully funny-clever, but their Fi seems very well resolved??? They feel very strongly about their ideals and will openly strongly fight for them.... I really have no idea though, and could be totally wrong.

My crazy ass Ne makes me hyperspastic and subject hopping but my heavy Te can make me very somber and serious too. When I let people see Fi...well once an INTP here told me I sounded very childlike, infantile even. I have the Fi of a nin year old. So i dunno...

Well sure...first of all, I think SS has a ton of Ne...she's definitely Ne dom and I think that's where her lightness comes from...I think she has more Ne than me. Her Fi is still pretty intense, though, when it comes out and is completely different than Satine's so I find it interesting that you compare the two.

I think Satine's Fi is developed in the sense that she has very definite ethical values when it comes to not offending others and trying to understand where people come from when she doesn't agree with them...so it almost looks like Fe to me.

INFPs can be extremely intense, so think of Fi more so in that way. I am very intense and can be quite heavy emotionally. People tell me sometimes that they think I am Fi dom or Fe dom because I have so much feeling development. By "well developed Fi" I mean an ENFP who uses a lot of their Feeling function, not necessarily the most ideal version of that function.