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  1. #661
    darkened dreams Ravenetta's Avatar
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    Here's a question for other INFJs. When social pressure is in conflict with your values, how to you behave? How would you behave in this scenario.

    Sitting in a psychology class, the professor wants students to re-enact the Standford based Stanley Miligram test where a researcher asks one participant to sit at a desk and push a button to inflict an electric shock on another participant which they cannot see. They are to inflict a shock anytime the other participant gets an answer wrong. They are told this person has a heart condition, and they hear expressions of pain in response to pushing the button. The researcher comes out periodically saying 'the experiment must continue', and increases the shock each time.

    Well, he asked me to re-enact pushing the button, and while I realize it is funny and there is no possibility of inflicting pain, still I didn't want to do it. It was against my will, and if I had gone along for the sake of being appropriate in class and obeying the professor, I would have left the class wondering if I would have been among the 80% who went through with the experiment. Instead I just sat there and smiled a bit awkardly. In one instance when the professor came out and said 'the experiment must continue' I made a joke and said, 'perhaps you two should switch places', which is what I would think in the pretend or real context. Anyway, I left class feeling peace that the ability to endure that level of social awkwardness, even stick-in-the-mud social behavior, in order to maintain the integrity of my will, meant it is more likely I would have integrity in a more real situation. Would any of you do that or do it seem like being silly and rigid in a context that was only a joke.
    The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. FEYNMAN
    If this is monkey pee, you're on your own.SCULLY
    You have to let the metaphysical guy chase you. ABIGAIL
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  2. #662
    Vulnerability Eilonwy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labyrinthine View Post
    Here's a question for other INFJs. When social pressure is in conflict with your values, how to you behave? How would you behave in this scenario.

    Sitting in a psychology class, the professor wants students to re-enact the Standford based Stanley Miligram test where a researcher asks one participant to sit at a desk and push a button to inflict an electric shock on another participant which they cannot see. They are to inflict a shock anytime the other participant gets an answer wrong. They are told this person has a heart condition, and they hear expressions of pain in response to pushing the button. The researcher comes out periodically saying 'the experiment must continue', and increases the shock each time.

    Well, he asked me to re-enact pushing the button, and while I realize it is funny and there is no possibility of inflicting pain, still I didn't want to do it. It was against my will, and if I had gone along for the sake of being appropriate in class and obeying the professor, I would have left the class wondering if I would have been among the 80% who went through with the experiment. Instead I just sat there and smiled a bit awkardly. In one instance when the professor came out and said 'the experiment must continue' I made a joke and said, 'perhaps you two should switch places', which is what I would think in the pretend or real context. Anyway, I left class feeling peace that the ability to endure that level of social awkwardness, even stick-in-the-mud social behavior, in order to maintain the integrity of my will, meant it is more likely I would have integrity in a more real situation. Would any of you do that or do it seem like being silly and rigid in a context that was only a joke.
    If you didn't feel comfortable, even though it was a joke, then you did what was right for you. I don't think you were being silly or rigid.
    Johari / Nohari

    “That we are capable only of being what we are remains our unforgivable sin.” ― Gene Wolfe

    reminder to self: "That YOU that you are so proud of is a story woven together by your interpreter module to account for as much of your behavior as it can incorporate, and it denies or rationalizes the rest." "Who's in Charge? Free Will and the Science of the Brain" by Michael S. Gazzaniga
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  3. #663
    Fe this! Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labyrinthine View Post
    Here's a question for other INFJs. When social pressure is in conflict with your values, how to you behave? How would you behave in this scenario.

    So long as it seems like no one is actually getting hurt, I might detach and go through the motions- but it makes me immediately plan my escape from the situation, it makes me (probably mostly even unconsciously) averse to participating in situations where something similiar might happen again, and in the aftermath I tend to too easily withdraw and/or get overwhelmed with sadness or depression.

    The thing is, there's so many knots to untangle in the phrase "no one is actually getting hurt". The Milgram experiment revealed a very ugly truth (scientifically!) about human nature. Many people have been traumatized by this ugly truth, in some form. So even just walking through the motions of it can trigger someone, and I'd have to know the people involved in the reenactment AND feel confident they are not the kind of people to feel at all traumatized before pushing that button myself. But THAT is the kind of realization I usually have afterwards- it's usually practically impossible for me to articulate something like that immediately (it's getting better as I get older, but it's still difficult), and when I'm in an environment where people are mocking the idea that someone can actually get hurt by a reenactment....I can see myself caving and (angrily) going through with it. And then spending the next week stewing in my own juices to understand wth just happened. And likely going up to anyone involved in the reeactment, who might possibly have been triggered/disturbed, and expressed how weird it was and all that (get a feel for how much it might be necessary to say more).
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari
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  4. #664
    Senior Member Hypatia's Avatar
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    Yeah, this thread is a bunch of bullshit.

  5. #665
    darkened dreams Ravenetta's Avatar
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    I don't know how other INFJs respond to bratty behavior, but I mostly ignore it. If I were a cavewoman, I would tend to take people like that out at the knees. When someone acts that way it occurs to me that they must have had a lot of pampering in their lives and are in need of a serious reality check. I call tell the difference between behavior that is based on the anger of having faced difficulties in life and the bratty snarks of someone who has been way too indulged and actually needs to experience a little hurt to get their head on straight.
    The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. FEYNMAN
    If this is monkey pee, you're on your own.SCULLY
    You have to let the metaphysical guy chase you. ABIGAIL

  6. #666
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    infj
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.
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  7. #667
    Just curious geedoenfj's Avatar
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    Default Common INFJ issues

    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    infj
    That's deep
    Work for a cause not for Applause
    Live to express not to Impress


    “sometimes... confused people are funnier, nicer, and more open-minded than non-confused people.” labyrinthine


    6w7 > 1w2 > 4


  8. #668
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geedoenfj View Post
    That's deep
    twss
    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.
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  9. #669
    darkened dreams Ravenetta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    infj
    True enough. And true enough for each personality type.
    The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. FEYNMAN
    If this is monkey pee, you're on your own.SCULLY
    You have to let the metaphysical guy chase you. ABIGAIL

  10. #670
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    Wow, a lot of this really spoke to me, but especially having long gaps in correspondence. I am notorious for this and some of my extrovert type friends don't get it. They understand I don't mean to disappear but I still feel guilty about it. Sometimes I just can't help it and need to hide out for awhile. Anyone else feel this way, and if so, how do you cope?
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