Common INFJ issues

[Lexicon]

Hmm yeah. I think I'm just having one of those "Don't fuck with me, I'm half feral" times today.

Isn't that what our Fe stands for?
We're entitled!

In more intimate settings, I can be more sensitive to that sort of dynamic. 3/4 feral, haha.

[EcK]

Anyone else get miffed when somebody is making an assessment about you, they follow an irrelevant positive with a negative? As if trying to 'soften the blow' or some junk?

Kind of like:
"I appreciate your <A that has nothing to do with B> but your <B that has nothing to do with A> is blah blah blah."

I mean, do you WANT me to rage? Is that it? ACCESS DENIED! STATE YOUR INTENT OR CEASE COMMUNICATION!

Well even I have that. I think it applies to anybody spotting incoherence, which I think Pattern oriented people (N primary especially) are very susceptible to. More so when the incoherence is poking at the way they process information. (Fe= Relation between people, Ti= Structural logical consistency, Te=Effective functioning, etc...)
I especially cannot stand suckups. I keep telling them NOT to do it as its irrelevant to their performance.

Or people who tell you to respect someone BECAUSE They are older than you. That just, puzzles me. If I wouldn't respect them in a given regard at age 20 i would respect the same mental state/degree of competence an order of magnitude less in someone twice that age and possessing of 5 times the experience in the specifically discussed field.
After 50 I'll consider that their brain might be degenerating/Unable to cope with rapid environmental changes and could be more lenient.

Or statements basically meaning 'you are really competent but I wont give you that job/raise etc. because... (bad reason)

It may be a N(pattern) + Ti (structural mismatch of the whole while it is stated as part of the same system) thing.

though with me its not about people saying stuff about me as much as people not letting me have what I want for what I deem to be incoherent reasons (ie: they are not giving me the real reason or/and are not efficient at decision making).

[Riva]

In some ways, yes. In some ways I'm very much a realist, while at the same time being too much of an idealist. A romantic relationship has a big impact on the whole direction of a person's life. It's not something that can be set aside for a day or two when there is conflict, or vision isn't shared. And in some ways, I think that I am disappointed more easily than some people are when I do not feel that I'm on the same path as the person I'm with.

I'd blame it on Ni - always with a vision of what could be or ought to be in mind, always trying to predict and prevent problems down the road, somewhat risk avoidant, always a little disappointed with not being able to manifest the vision that I have in real life. I think maybe all Ni users are bound to be disappointed in some ways, even when they are happy.

In that sense I think I'd be a difficult romantic partner, as I find it difficult to just enjoy the good things and set aside the bad things. If I can see that something negative in the present is going to cause problems down the road and the other person is seemingly oblivious to it until they actually see the bad results (and it is too late to do anything about them), it is very hard to feel close to them or to remain at peace, knowing that something is amiss. I think that would be frustrating for another person (especially if they didn't share the same sentiments). It might feel like I am never contented with them as they are, that I am always borrowing trouble, that I am unnecessarily negative...

I haven't met a person yet that I could truly envision having enough common ground and shared purpose to make a life together with. It's a very big blank cheque to write and I'm fairly happy with my life as it is now. Generally I have a hard time trading something I know I am happy with for something unknown, even if it has the potential of being great. (Even down to trying a new entree at a restaurant! That is part of what I admire about people who can make me try new things that I normally would not take a chance on).

I wouldn't be adverse to the idea of meeting and marrying someone, but I don't know at this stage that I would have the sureness to actively seek it out either. Even on paper, with each personality type, I can see factors about each type that I think would be extremely difficult for me to reconcile myself to. It's not even that I expect a partner that is perfect. I realize that every set of good qualities has a flip side to it and that I have major flaws myself. It's just that I'm not sure how I would deal with certain problems over the long term in a way that wasn't damaging or invalidating to either myself or the person I was with.

In other ways though I am exceptionally understanding and appreciative with a romantic partner. I have a huge capacity to love and enjoy being in a relationship. I like making the person I am with feel good.

I am not so much easily disappointed by a person inadvertently hurting me, or by them being human. It's more when I see a reoccurring pattern that seemingly cannot be changed to work better for us in a sustainable way, then disappointment and deep sadness occur. It's the loss of hope or frustration at not seeing any possibilities for positive change, rather than the presence of problems that bothers me.

Thank you so much for this long reply which I could have totally missed since you didn't use the quote function - FYI.

I am so glad to hear the last part. Reoccurring patterns that seemingly cannot be changed would be a disappointment to any person.

I wonder whether Z Buck McFate would agree with that. But by what she said it seems to be not the case.

What an interesting thought. I almost see it the other way though- I anticipate incompatibilities with people, then feel attracted and pleasantly surprised when an actual compatibility reveals itself. I wonder if that's a Pe/Pi difference.

Thank you. I thought it would be cocky of me to state that particular thought - since I have never been in a long term committed relationship - and nearly omitted it. I slightly edited it after you replied FYI but the point remains the same.

Does this compatibility turn in to attraction and lead you to a thought of lifelong commitment? If not I would say there is no difference at all.

Then again like I said earlier attraction leads one to ignore incompatibilities, therefore 'if not' I cannot exactly say that there is no difference at all. So I guess 'urghhh I do not know what to say' is the correct thing to say.

Maybe I put too much weight in to the word attraction to get the point across thereby left no room for disagreement when the word attraction was used?

[Society]

Usually the only people who do that to me are people whose opinion I could care less about/they don't know me at all. So I can't feel miffed. I'm often amused by their condescension, & let it go.

If they take forever to make their point, however, I can grow impatient.
@ bold, I love this.

wait, is the assumption that if they have negative critique of you they don't have a credible opinion / don't really know you, or that if they think they need to soften the blow they don't know that they wouldn't need too and thus don't know that one thing about you which you relate to some core understanding you have about yourself and thus its the same as not knowing you at all?


i just find the behavior of utilizing compliments to soften the blow to be ignorant but in such a narrow and specific way that it can't be quite extended to mean that the person is ignorant as a whole, since [nerd warning: ] there has being published research showing that the chemicals released upon negative feedback block the reception of the chemicals released on positive feedback, which is why telling a child "you did really well in school, i only wished you invested more time in this and that" is pointless - there has to be a good distance of time and mood between the different types of feedback... too be specific for most people to expect most people to get an intuitive grasp of or to judge someone by whether they have found or looked for anything that could lead them to that specific set of information, or whether their philosophy disagrees with the way the information has being obtained.

most people doing this are just following a social formality of sorts that they've being indoctrinated with, based on how people have treated them. unlike them, whose ignorant is quite narrow, people who believe that they are immune to such blind spots due to indoctrination by society are people whose ignorance towards themselves might actually be measurable to the point of characterizing who they are (by virtue of being willful).

[Lexicon]

wait, is the assumption that if they have negative critique of you they don't have a credible opinion / don't really know you, or that if they think they need to soften the blow they don't know that they wouldn't need too and thus don't know that one thing about you which you relate to some core understanding you have about yourself and thus its the same as not knowing you at all?

No, the lack mutual familiarity between me & the individual decreases the degree of emotional stock I may place in their opinions. It's not so much a question of their credibility- it simply means I'm less emotionally sensitive to their potentially negative or positive feedback, but I still try to objectively process what they say for what it is, & may try to interpret intent. And yeah, if they knew me better, they'd know the need to sugarcoat would be unnecessary. Because they don't know me, I can't in good conscience hold that against them. I attribute having thick skin regarding feedback from strangers to experiences in acting, with some tyrannical, brutal directors. You can't take certain things personally. However, you can look for overall relevance.

If someone I'm very close to did that, I might feel bothered about it- like they believe I can't take the criticism as is. It'd feel like a red flag in terms of our overall understanding of one another & our communication dynamics. It'd be distressing- & I could easily see how it might create future problems- thus I would want to work to resolve it.

Fortunately, for the most part, those who are close to me realize this and it's rarely an issue- hence my post.

[Society]

No, the lack mutual familiarity between me & the individual decreases the degree of emotional stock I may place in their opinions. It's not so much a question of their credibility- it simply means I'm less emotionally sensitive to their potentially negative or positive feedback, but I still try to objectively process what they say for what it is, & may try to interpret intent. And yeah, if they knew me better, they'd know the need to sugarcoat would be unnecessary. Because they don't know me, I can't in good conscience hold that against them. I attribute having thick skin regarding feedback from strangers to experiences in acting, with some tyrannical, brutal directors. You can't take certain things personally. However, you can look for overall relevance.

If someone I'm very close to well did that, I might feel bothered about it- like they believe I can't take the criticism as is. It'd feel like a red flag in terms of our overall understanding of one another & our communication dynamics. It'd be distressing, thus I would want to work to resolve it.

Fortunately, for the most part, those who are close to me realize this and it's rarely an issue- hence my post.

that is interesting... do you have examples of times you objectively interpreted harsh feedback that disagreed with core beliefs about yourself and found it to be true?

(within or outside the context of sugar coating and/or familiarity)

[Lexicon]

that is interesting... do you have examples of times you objectively interpreted harsh feedback that disagreed with core beliefs about yourself and found it to be true?

I'm sure it's happened before. We all have blind spots. Pardon, my lack of Si keeps me from immediately calling to mind specific instances. But it indeed has happened, & I grew from the experiences. My core beliefs about myself aren't static, for this very reason. (Hell, I'm still in the process of building a healthy self that I can teach my poorly wired brain to accept, hah).

[Society]

I'm sure it's happened before. We all have blind spots. Pardon, my lack of Si keeps me from immediately calling to mind specific instances. But it indeed has happened, & I grew from the experiences. My core beliefs about myself aren't static, for this very reason. (Hell, I'm still in the process of building a healthy self that I can teach my poorly wired brain to accept, hah).

good, in that case, without sugar coating: after overviewing your life choices, one can only conclude that your a horrible horrible person right now for not being in vent. fix it.

edit:
"'Lexicon' has joined the chat. "
holy fucking timing...

[Lexicon]

good, in that case, without sugar coating: after overviewing your life choices, one can only conclude that your a horrible horrible person right now for not being in vent. fix it.

Pff, I was already there.

12/30 10:29:31 'Lexicon' has joined the chat.


And they say INFJ precognition doesn't exist..

[Z Buck McFate]

Thank you so much for this long reply which I could have totally missed since you didn't use the quote function - FYI.

I am so glad to hear the last part. Reoccurring patterns that seemingly cannot be changed would be a disappointment to any person.

I wonder whether Z Buck McFate would agree with that. But by what she said it seems to be not the case.

I don’t know, I kinda think she was saying the same thing I was: the disappointment usually isn’t in the people themselves so much as finding out there’s some irreconcilable difference in values/priorities. And if I’m already close to someone, then it does make me really sad- the moment I start suspecting it’s gotten to the ‘irreconcilable’ point.

Thank you. I thought it would be cocky of me to state that particular thought - since I have never been in a long term committed relationship - and nearly omitted it. I slightly edited it after you replied FYI but the point remains the same.

Does this compatibility turn in to attraction and lead you to a thought of lifelong commitment? If not I would say there is no difference at all.

Then again like I said earlier attraction leads one to ignore incompatibilities, therefore 'if not' I cannot exactly say that there is no difference at all. So I guess 'urghhh I do not know what to say' is the correct thing to say.

Maybe I put too much weight in to the word attraction to get the point across thereby left no room for disagreement when the word attraction was used?

It does turn into attraction and lead to thoughts of lifelong commitment, but it occurs to me that what I’d written only really holds true in the beginning. Once I’m in the relationship- from that point on, then yes, it’s a matter of being disappointed as incompatibilities reveal themselves.

I do think Pe’ers are more optimistic- assuming something/someone new in their external environment is going to work out well for them until they see reason to believe otherwise, whereas a Pi’ers tend to either have no opinion or a gloomy one until experience proves optimistic.