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[INFP] INFP Bullshit and Romance

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
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sp/sx
i would take it to mean that they want someone who can see past their outward expression or statements that might be interpreted as disinterested or unaffected...maybe they seem aloof because they're shy...maybe they feel too much or care too much so they over compensate by acting the opposite...so...that's a lot of confusing bs to someone who doesn't know how to look.

This is it....and much of it boils down to appearing inconsistent, IMO.

I know, for myself, that I do not tend to have inconsistent feelings, in the MBTI capital F sense of feeling. I DO have inconsistent moods, and I will give into them & it will confuse people. I like you but I am not in the mood to talk to anyone, so it appears I am ignoring you....but I'm really being true to myself in one sense, so it's no act of playing hard to get.

This is my problem though, and it's something I've had to get over in order to have any hope of ever having a long term relationship. I've realized I have to stay true to my larger feeling instead of the mood of the moment to send clear signals to people. I will always need a lot of space though, and that is something you have to come to terms with when it comes to very high introverts. I don't initiate a lot, but if I respond well most of the time to someone else's efforts, then that means I probably like that person or else I'd avoid them.

If you want to get past the aloofness before they learn to function better, then accept that inconsistent behavior does not equal lack of feeling. Don't be delusional either though.... :p

A few other points....

I love Romanticism & consider myself a kind of Romanticist, but very outward expressions of warm emotion can be overwhelming to me and even embarrassing. Even if I do feel strongly, I may try and diffuse my expressions to avoid any possibility of awkwardness (possibly the Ne tangents you've noted - conversation takes a swift change when it gets too mushy - let me tell you, ENFJs pull a similar trick when it gets too "personal"). This may appear "coy" but it's not a calculating move. This is basically waiting for the INFP to warm up to you, which can take a lot of time, possibly much more than the typical person. I'm thinking some of this is my so instinct from enneagram though...
Too much too soon from the other person can also scare me away. It reeks of insincerity, which I can't stand. On the other hand, I've often found the ENFJ ease of expression liberating of my own, so that I warm up faster. Constant elusiveness from me to answer a question straight regarding how I feel is a sign I'm not interested.... Yes, I realize this seems, well, inconsistent :D.

As for this "sugarcube" thing, I will throw out "tests", but not consciously. I may say/do something to see what reaction the person has, and that may tell me if I can be safe to open up to them more. It's a "can you deal with my Fi?" sort of thing. It's a lot more subtle than you might be imagining right now, and the aim is to put someone off, and if they stick around, then they pass. I don't even realize I do it til afterwards sometimes. Maybe it does come out in Ne form - I'm sure it has a random, non-direct quality & maybe that's what you pick up on. Often, Ne with a Ni person is more like "play with me!" than any kind of challenge. I think the issue comes to a head when a Fe person registers such conversation as something awkward, and instinct is to change the subject - this appears dismissive to me as an INFP.

I'm starting to ramble now, but that's my BS, or rather, the obstacle course.
 
A

A window to the soul

Guest
^ OrangeAppled, that tis not BS. That is excellent... well written and you are precisely right on IMO.
icon14.gif
 

angell_m

Permabanned
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818
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5w4
Now that I've heard it from so many different perspectives, I can refine and rephrase my question.

I've noticed, through personal experiences that INFPs have a tendency of using their Ne to form a trail of "shiny concepts" for an Ni user to follow. INFPs can use this ability very much like an Fe-user uses emo-persuasion, and can lead a person in a certain direction like a horse follows someone with sugarcubes in their hand.

A. Do you use this ability?
B. If you use it, how so?
C. Have you ever used it as a filter with possible romantic interests to see if they're clever enough to see past the "sugarcube" and into your true intentions?

Feel free to comment "around" the question too. Thanks.

This seems more like one of those high school math test questions we skipped in school. A little bit because it didn't make any sense. A little bit because it was too hard. And a little bit because we just didn't give a damn.

Your other question was a whole lot better.

Don't get me wrong. Didn't want to offend you or anything, if anything I tried to put out a joke or something. I don't know, I haven't slept in a while.
 

musicnerd93

New member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
249
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INFP
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4w5
Mine:

I am moody and short tempered.

Somewhat arrogant. (Or I just say I'm smarter or better looking than someone else...but I usually don't really mean it, deep down.)

If I have a strong opinion about something, you better be prepared for me going off on a tirade about it, because I am extremely opionated.

I sometimes get my feelings hurt way too easily.

They have to be able to tolerate my abnormal obsession with cats and flowers. :p
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
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sp/sx
Mine:

I am moody and short tempered.

Somewhat arrogant. (Or I just say I'm smarter or better looking than someone else...but I usually don't really mean it, deep down.)

If I have a strong opinion about something, you better be prepared for me going off on a tirade about it, because I am extremely opinionated.

I sometimes get my feelings hurt way too easily.

This is a pretty good shortlist of my flaws also. I'm not arrogant so much as suffering from occasional bouts of elitism. The tirades aren't trotted out for just anyone either; consider yourself privileged to hear one.
 

CzeCze

RETIRED
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Sep 11, 2007
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8,975
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GONE
I've often heard INFPs describing desiring a partner that gets past their "bullshit". I have an inkling as to what this is, but I'd like to hear it from you. What do you think? What is your "bullshit"? What is it about yourself that you'd like your partner to get around?

Btw, this isn't a slight against y'all. This is a concept I've heard of from more than one of you though. I'm curious to see if there's anything to it.

Thanks,
--Fuzzy :wubbie::devil::jew:

I've dated a couple of INFPs - granted they were (and are) very very 'green'. I'm surprised to hear that INFPs you know have actually outright said that about their BS. I wonder from their perspective what they are talking about since all I know is what I think the 'BS' refers to. I've definitely dealt with A LOT of unintentional bs from the INFP I've dated as well as the intentional 'bs' they were throwing out.

I like to put my worst foot forward sometimes when I really like someone, which though may seem counterintuitive, is my way of showing the person I care about them, because I want them to like me even when I'm at my worst, hoping that they won't be repelled by it. If they can get through all that b.s, and see that within me is an unrelenting desire to ascend the heights, that is when I'll know I found a true friend.

I'm not saying this is the right approach, it's actually very selfish.

I think this hits the nail right on, actually! At least for one possible aspect of 'bs'. :alttongue:

For the INFPs I dated, I think on some level they consciously believe this ^^ that they need to test people to find 'the ones' and that the people they date have to be willing and capable of extremes to be trustworthy.

Also, there was just a lot of bs to deal with because of their own conflicted natures/feelings/approaches to dating, behavior was scattershot because of being NP and the Fi just kicked the bs level into overdrive. T

here is somewhat of an all or nothing "you must accept me for everything I am unconditionally even with all my flaws which I may or may not want to change later and you are not allowed to question certain relationships, actions, habits etc because I am not able to even articulate to myself, let alone someone else, what those are all about". There is always an element of fear, uncertainty, even anxiety at the beginning of any dating situation but with the INFPs I dated, they handled it very poorly and it led to 'bs'.

Having spoken to some other XNFPs on the forum about this, I discovered some great general rules for dating. I think the OP question is applicable to dating in general. I think in the beginning stages when people are being wishy washy or waiting and seeing or deciding if they want to commit - you have to watch their actions, not listen to their words.

For INFPs, you basically have to steer the ship, never, ever let them steer the ship if you want to get to the destination with the boat in one piece. That's how I interpret the 'get through my [INFP] bs'.

In younger/immature INFPs there is definitely a lot of what ends up being head-game playing and 'guess exactly what I'm feeling and prove to me you care' - though they may not consider it game playing. Lots of things unspoken that later come to surface and blindside you and seeming inconsistency.
 

paradox fox

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Feb 17, 2010
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4
I've often heard INFPs describing desiring a partner that gets past their "bullshit". I have an inkling as to what this is, but I'd like to hear it from you. What do you think? What is your "bullshit"? What is it about yourself that you'd like your partner to get around?

Btw, this isn't a slight against y'all. This is a concept I've heard of from more than one of you though. I'm curious to see if there's anything to it.

Thanks,
--Fuzzy :wubbie::devil::jew:

BS = facade.
At least in my case.
I try to keep my nicer qualities on the surface, or at least appear normal enough to stay under the radar. If someone wants to get to know me better, I might be open to it if they make themselves open to inspection as well. And if they still like me once my veneer of sugar and niceness is gone, if they STILL like me despite all the ugly crap so neatly tucked out of view, then yay. Huggles and wubbles and all that NF-ery you'd expect from me.
 

Thessaly

I drink your milkshake.
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
1,363
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xNFP
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3w4
I've often heard INFPs describing desiring a partner that gets past their "bullshit". I have an inkling as to what this is, but I'd like to hear it from you. What do you think? What is your "bullshit"? What is it about yourself that you'd like your partner to get around?

Btw, this isn't a slight against y'all. This is a concept I've heard of from more than one of you though. I'm curious to see if there's anything to it.

Thanks,
--Fuzzy :wubbie::devil::jew:

Examples of my INFP friend's bullshit.

INFP: I'm not really into this guy that much, I'm just bored and he's fun sometimes so I don't care if he hasn't called me in a couple days.

Me: No, you care. Maybe you don't want something serious from him, but it bothers you that this guy clearly doesn't care about your feelings and is using you too.

INFP #2: I don't have much experience doing counseling or research so I'm not sure which to pursue. If I'm not sure which to pursue then it doesn't make sense to go after either at the moment. I'll see how I feel about it after a bit more life experience.

Me: You're making excuses. You're afraid of making the wrong decision so you don't make any at all. Time is wasting away and instead of seriously contemplating either you sit back and think life will just hand you the answers.

INFP #3: I'm glad to have some time off work. Instead of looking for work right away I'm going to do some soul searching and figure out what I want in life.

Me: Okay well make sure you actually do that instead of watching the cooking channel all day long.

*1 month later*

Me: So what are the results of your soul searching?

INFP#3: They were inconclusive.

Me: :doh:

INFP#4: I'm not going to date that guy right now because I have other things to concentrate on right now.

Me: Not really. If you really wanted to date him you just would.

Yeah, that's pretty much what we mean by our bullshit. INTJs are so far the only ones who have called me out on it. I think Ni helps in the bullshit detecting.
 

Arclight

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BS = facade.
At least in my case.
I try to keep my nicer qualities on the surface, or at least appear normal enough to stay under the radar. If someone wants to get to know me better, I might be open to it if they make themselves open to inspection as well. And if they still like me once my veneer of sugar and niceness is gone, if they STILL like me despite all the ugly crap so neatly tucked out of view, then yay. Huggles and wubbles and all that NF-ery you'd expect from me.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :yes:
 

musicnerd93

New member
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Apr 19, 2010
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249
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4w5
This is a pretty good shortlist of my flaws also. I'm not arrogant so much as suffering from occasional bouts of elitism. The tirades aren't trotted out for just anyone either; consider yourself privileged to hear one.

Right. I mean, if you're close with me, you'll hear it, but I'm more softspoken around people I don't know well.

I also agree with your post, OrangeAppled, about the romanticism. I consider myself a romantic, and I feel love and affection very, very deeply...I'm just not very good at expressing it. :blush: I always get so awkward and shy and act like I don't care, when really I want to plant kisses all over the guys face and tell them how much they really do mean to me. *sigh* I hate being an introvert sometimes. :cry:

Usually, when I want to express my feelings of love I do it by writing a poem or a love story or something like that. It sounds corny, but that's how I roll. :wubbie:
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
3,166
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INFP
Examples of my INFP friend's bullshit.

INFP: I'm not really into this guy that much, I'm just bored and he's fun sometimes so I don't care if he hasn't called me in a couple days.

Me: No, you care. Maybe you don't want something serious from him, but it bothers you that this guy clearly doesn't care about your feelings and is using you too.

INFP #2: I don't have much experience doing counseling or research so I'm not sure which to pursue. If I'm not sure which to pursue then it doesn't make sense to go after either at the moment. I'll see how I feel about it after a bit more life experience.

Me: You're making excuses. You're afraid of making the wrong decision so you don't make any at all. Time is wasting away and instead of seriously contemplating either you sit back and think life will just hand you the answers.

INFP #3: I'm glad to have some time off work. Instead of looking for work right away I'm going to do some soul searching and figure out what I want in life.

Me: Okay well make sure you actually do that instead of watching the cooking channel all day long.

*1 month later*

Me: So what are the results of your soul searching?

INFP#3: They were inconclusive.

Me: :doh:

INFP#4: I'm not going to date that guy right now because I have other things to concentrate on right now.

Me: Not really. If you really wanted to date him you just would.

Yeah, that's pretty much what we mean by our bullshit. INTJs are so far the only ones who have called me out on it. I think Ni helps in the bullshit detecting.

So, all of it is actually about being indecisive? Well, that's bad news for me, since I have not found a way to motivate myself enough to really pursue anything. In fact, I am pretty convinced that if you try to grab anything with too much force it will break down. It seems like the indecisiveness is almost a philosophy for me.
 

TheEmeraldCanopy

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Jan 4, 2009
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280
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INFP
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4w3
I guess someone calling me on my bullshit would be... if someone were to look through my goofy weird nature and see that I feel things deeply and actually like discussing relationships and learning about people, etc. The goofiness is definitely part of me too, but there is more. I guess that is what I want the other person to see.

I like being very goofy or silly and to crack crazy jokes with friends to sort of entertain them and make them feel happy, comfortable, and safe for a moment if I can, but I think it can also be a defense mechanism in situations where I don't know the other person because I'm so afraid of not being liked, of being exposed and being rejected. If all else fails (because I'm bad at small talk), I can at least poke fun at myself or try to poke fun at the situation (assuming it calls for that, not a serious situation) and maybe someone will laugh, and we can connect there for a moment.

However, when the night is over and I climb into my car and just sit there for a moment staring out into the darkness of the street, my mind instantly longs for that person who would sit beside me and just let me be myself with them, even if that means sitting in silence together for awhile. I want someone who will make me feel as though I don't have to perform anymore because I'm with them... (I think this probably especially applies to INFP 4w3's due to the 3 wing's nature, but 4w5's might also feel the same). I don't have to joke around, poke fun at myself anymore, redirect the conversation all over the place to safer topics; I can just be myself.

I agree with the person who said they drop Fi hints along the way. If I start to feel safe with a person, I will slowly tell them little things about myself and see how they take it. I need to test the waters to make sure they're safe before I dive head first.
 

Rebe

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4sop
^ I think that's a large part of it for me too, EmeraldCanopy, very nicely put. Thanks for pointing out my motives better than I can, haha.

I am extremely goofy and silly when I am around people. But when I am by myself, I get 'intense' and I analyze everything. I get very solemn, not in a depressive way, but I start to see things through the eyes of someone who is detached from the world, who sees everything as a puzzle, not just living a life but understanding every aspect of it, seeing all the patterns, noticing all the flaws. I think there's a great contrast between my light and my dark side. It (would) take me a long, long time to let someone into the darker, weightier thoughts in my mind. But I think it depends greatly on the person. If they are not interested, I won't tell them even if we have been friends for ten years. If they are, I could start to express myself in a month. To put it simply, when left alone, I am similar to INTJs and when with people, I become a stereotypical ENFP. And ideally, I would need someone who can draw the inner thoughts out of me and not just see the chirpy, goofy, spacey sarcastic person. That wasn't the 'bullshit' I thought of when I responded to this thread earlier. This is a more serious 'problem' or 'truth' than what I thought the OP is referring to. In fact, I don't think that what we do with the silly image is 'bullshit' but just a facade of who we are. We don't at all intentionally mislead people, we are that goofy, silly person as much as we are the darker, brainy type.
 

Lauren

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Dec 7, 2008
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255
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INFP
I can relate very much to what TheEmeraldCanopy says. It makes me wonder if I'm a 4W3. Some people think of me as a wild and crazy (in a good way) jokster. I love to take a humorous twist on the bizarre and routine in life, though I'm not usually sardonic or cynical. I've known for some time that this is a kind of cover up for me. I know that I'm doing it to make others feel at ease and it makes conversations lighter, more energized, and sometimes more interesting, as a lighter touch leads to better feeling all around. When people feel this way about me, I realize that I'm keeping the more serious, intense, romantic, idealistic me under wraps. I don't mind that others aren't seeing all of me, or the me that I feel is the real me. I like to remain hidden until I meet someone with whom I know I can share all of me. I value highly those rare people whom I can be completely myself without the kidding around. Or those who know the kidding around is only a part of me. I always try to adapt myself to others, on the outside, all the time knowing that it's an adaptation. I like disappearing. It makes others appear, and I like to know what others have to say or how they feel.

I do, as a matter of routine, the opposite of what I'm really feeling because a feeling is too intense. I know if must be confusing to some. It's a way of dealing with a situation on the surface until you can resolve how you feel about something and how you want to act. I feel I wear my heart on my sleeve as it is. I agree that those who really see you will understand and be patient.
 

Rainne

One day and the next
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Mar 7, 2010
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875
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ISTP
i think they like having someone who anchors them into reality
 

angell_m

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Examples of my INFP friend's bullshit.

INFP: I'm not really into this guy that much, I'm just bored and he's fun sometimes so I don't care if he hasn't called me in a couple days.

Me: No, you care. Maybe you don't want something serious from him, but it bothers you that this guy clearly doesn't care about your feelings and is using you too.

INFP #2: I don't have much experience doing counseling or research so I'm not sure which to pursue. If I'm not sure which to pursue then it doesn't make sense to go after either at the moment. I'll see how I feel about it after a bit more life experience.

Me: You're making excuses. You're afraid of making the wrong decision so you don't make any at all. Time is wasting away and instead of seriously contemplating either you sit back and think life will just hand you the answers.

INFP #3: I'm glad to have some time off work. Instead of looking for work right away I'm going to do some soul searching and figure out what I want in life.

Me: Okay well make sure you actually do that instead of watching the cooking channel all day long.

*1 month later*

Me: So what are the results of your soul searching?

INFP#3: They were inconclusive.

Me: :doh:

INFP#4: I'm not going to date that guy right now because I have other things to concentrate on right now.

Me: Not really. If you really wanted to date him you just would.

Yeah, that's pretty much what we mean by our bullshit. INTJs are so far the only ones who have called me out on it. I think Ni helps in the bullshit detecting.

I'm wired right now, so this may not make much sense at all.

In our teenage years we used to chase our dreams, but with years of continuous disappointment we became hesitant. Only one very personal admiration may ever give us the indomitable spirit needed to chase our dreams again.
 

jcloudz

Yup
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
1,525
MBTI Type
Istj
I was taught that romance is a cliché.
I was taught to act like a "man". And
I was raised by women.

I guess that is the outcome of what some
would like to call a "hopeless romantic,"
because as much as I want to be
romantic, to give it my all; My past
experiences has taught me not to,
because it is folly.

In my personal opinion, love would be much
simpler without all the roadblocks.

if gold was common and easily obtainable, would it be of value?
 

Snuggletron

Reptilian
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
2,224
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INFP
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10
Examples of my INFP friend's bullshit.

INFP: I'm not really into this guy that much, I'm just bored and he's fun sometimes so I don't care if he hasn't called me in a couple days.

Me: No, you care. Maybe you don't want something serious from him, but it bothers you that this guy clearly doesn't care about your feelings and is using you too.

INFP #2: I don't have much experience doing counseling or research so I'm not sure which to pursue. If I'm not sure which to pursue then it doesn't make sense to go after either at the moment. I'll see how I feel about it after a bit more life experience.

Me: You're making excuses. You're afraid of making the wrong decision so you don't make any at all. Time is wasting away and instead of seriously contemplating either you sit back and think life will just hand you the answers.

INFP #3: I'm glad to have some time off work. Instead of looking for work right away I'm going to do some soul searching and figure out what I want in life.

Me: Okay well make sure you actually do that instead of watching the cooking channel all day long.

*1 month later*

Me: So what are the results of your soul searching?

INFP#3: They were inconclusive.

Me: :doh:

INFP#4: I'm not going to date that guy right now because I have other things to concentrate on right now.

Me: Not really. If you really wanted to date him you just would.

Yeah, that's pretty much what we mean by our bullshit. INTJs are so far the only ones who have called me out on it. I think Ni helps in the bullshit detecting.

this is EXACTLY what I was going through with another INFP (relationship wise). Especially #2 and #3. Really frustrating.
 
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