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[ENFP] ENFP girlfriend confusing me! Help!

Moiety

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Well that is very self-righteous. Especially given what I've read about ENFPs making ridiculously bad judgment calls a lot of times. That sounds like something an INTJ would say (which would even be considered as coming off as cocky by our own standards lol), and I would trust a decision like that more with an INTJ over an ENFP, all else held equal. I just really believe that thinking is more likely to arrive at the correct decision than feeling, so hopefully she will implement her Te function, which I am glad has been developing as we have dated :) I mean feeling is great and all, but it just creates disasters that thinking fixes, hehe. She should know that as a her boyfriend, AND as an INTJ, I don't lie. It's just something I don't do. It's something I detest. It's something I don't get over (except I have forgiven my girlfriend before, after my center core was shattered like hers). She knows how I feel about lies. Lying (we're not talking just a white lie here) to me is like telling an ENFP that all they care about is themselves and that everything that they do to make people happy is an attempt to manipulate them and get what they want. She should know how big of a move it was for me to agree to forgive her, even though it has been a relatively slow process. That should be something she uses to help her come around. Of course I won't tell her that, that would be emotional blackmail. And although my forgiving hasn't been an overnight process, I have still maintained love while rebuilding trust separately, and did not do it with her out of my life like she wants to do with me. I don't get why people can't say something they don't mean in a time of weakness. Like I said, I'm leaving it all in her hands now. I've done everything I can to be the best boyfriend I can before the argument, and directly after the argument. If she can't see that, I think I'm better off with a non-ENFP that is not a fair weather fan.


This parent/child relationship between male ITJs and ENFPs chicks is getting sicker and sicker by the day. ENFP chicks are either naive or sick themselves to consistently fall for all this hidden condescendence.
 

stringstheory

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If you want to save this relationship you NEED to swallow your pride. You have already let it get the best of you once, if you don't own it then I can't see this ending well.

Right now you are demanding that she understand your type preference and just take you at face value because that's just how INTJs are; while that's true, you are not really giving her that same consideration and in fact are being pretty condescending about it, via these posts putting down her emotional/thought processing and indicating that she needs to get over it and to see and do things your way because it is the "right" way. As another poster mentioned earlier, being "right" isn't going to help you now. This approach WILL NOT work with an ENFP.

You say that she knows you and that she should just know this is something you did in a moment of weakness, but you just did something that she may have never thought you were capable of doing, so coming from her perspective it may be difficult to just "know". Experiencing the darker side of someone can shake you up, so if someone you thought you knew acts very uncharacteristically and then says "just take my word for it, you know me" well........does she?

Like other ENFPs have said, I am not her so I can only speculate, but if she has as good of a grasp on your MBTI type as you say she does she has likely spent a lot of the past 3 years trying to understand things in the scope of your type, possibly letting things that slightly annoyed or upset her slide because she knows your type and that you didn't mean it, which could lead to what you perceive as over-reacting..I prefer to call it over-feeling, and this is an approach I'm in the process of un-learning myself, but it is what it is.

So for you to say something that so clearly upset her and then demand that she see where you're coming from and expect her to get over it is really unfair. An ENFP is usually making compromises for others in order to work things out. And here you are demanding that she do more to understand you when she herself is really hurt and you don't look like you're doing a whole lot to do the same in return. You say you've done "everything you can", but have you? Really? I would really critically examine that. Use that Ti! :D

You posted here, so to me that's a good indicator that you are trying to understand and that you really do love her, but to me the way you react to posts that criticize your role in this problem indicates that you are still letting your pride get in your way.

Stop it.

Read Satine's posts over and over again until you understand. Use MBTI to help understand each others thought processes as equally valid as the other (note: valid, does not equal "correct"). Where you are weak, she may be strong, and vice versa. Use that. READ SATINE'S POSTS OVER AND OVER. Find out exactly what it is, if anything, you can do to make this right even if it means giving her space. Keep in mind that there might not be anything you can do and accept that if the time comes. Quit building walls with your pride and she might quit building walls with her emotions.

Edit: I should probably make it clear that I'm with an INTJ myself..we recently had some problems, somewhat similar to yours. Trust me when I say that Satine knows what she's talking about, from both perspectives. There's more than one side to each story, if you listen.
 

fecaleagle

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Thanks everyone for your continued support, even though I have been coming off as an ass in some of my posts. I'm sorry. I'm normally not one, but I guess I have been getting defensive and letting my pride get in the way as everyone has been saying. The thing is, I was not aware (and I'm still not exactly sure how) that I am building a wall out of my pride. But I'll take your word for it and try to figure it out. Maybe she's not aware that she's building a wall out of her emotions? If so, I have been taking the wrong approach because if she's doesn't understand her feelings right now then why am was I trying to push her to explain them to me. And I guess the condescending part applies as well. I'm actually ridiculously open-minded (my J and P are very close to equal) to others, but especially my loved ones. I just need to put this pride aside and remind her of that I have always valued her opinions, thoughts, and emotions, and promise her that I haven't lost sight of that.
 

Thalassa

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This parent/child relationship between male ITJs and ENFPs chicks is getting sicker and sicker by the day. ENFP chicks are either naive or sick themselves to consistently fall for all this hidden condescendence.

I don't know if it's only ITJs.

And I wonder if being submissive in a relationship is type related. Being a submissive isn't necessarily "sick."

You also want to take into account that he's probably mad/upset with her right now, which is why his tone may be less than pleasant.
 

Lady_X

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yeah...as i just said in another thread....it is much easier to change a good first impression than a bad....and it applies a bit in this way...like disillusionment...that rose colored shades view we tend to have...naturally thinking the best of people and then a thought or statement is expressed and i think...whoa...hang on...this doesn't fit into my picture of you at all. let me reevaulate everything i know and create a new model for you so that i may understand...then decide if i like this new way i see you...it's not the same as...hmm odd behavior...must not mean anything in the context of his previous behaviors i'll discard it...no...it says...oh...okay wrong...re-asses.


that was jumbled. i'm sorry... too tired to be eloquent.
 

Amargith

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Eagle..you're INTJ. You're awesome and you can do anything ;)
That includes this and all it entails.

Have patience, she's still sorting things out, (kinda like being swallowed by a wave). I know this isn't easy, but it *is* worth it, I promise. Take care of yourself :hug:
 

stringstheory

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Keep in mind I can only speculate based on my own experience. When I mean "building walls", I mean in terms of "protection" from emotional vulnerability and keeping ourselves isolated by being emotionally unavailable to others. For me at least, when I'm building walls I just build. I don't think too much, I just keep building :alttongue:. But I do it in a much different way than my partner does. Just remember that we are always learning, and sometimes we don't see things that are there (or see things that aren't there!) when we are not at our best.

I'm gonna link you to Satine's post in the thread I created about my INTJ-NFP problems. I think it might benefit you to see what kind of information was valuable to an NFP regardless of how similar or dissimilar our situations may have been.

NF/NT Communication

I don't know if it's only ITJs.

And I wonder if being submissive in a relationship is type related. Being a submissive isn't necessarily "sick."

Same...I actually found Stypgs post interesting because in my relationships with ITJs, I'm usually the dominant one. I've had relationships where I was not; overall neither was better than the other, provided that balance and mutual respect were otherwise an element of the relationship. Submissive doesn't necessarily mean "subordinate", imo
 

Lady_X

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also...just another thought as a very f person...i can know something logically. i can know someone loves me based on actions...logically i can taste it but it doesn't satiate or fill that emotional need.

if that makes sense.
 

Amargith

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:ninja: Crap, I need to stop repeating myself! :doh:
 

Thalassa

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also...just another thought as a very f person...i can know something logically. i can know someone loves me based on actions...logically i can taste it but it doesn't satiate or fill that emotional need.

if that makes sense.

Yeah I can know something logically, yet still respond emotionally in a way which is not aligned with the logic. I know what you mean.
 

fecaleagle

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also...just another thought as a very f person...i can know something logically. i can know someone loves me based on actions...logically i can taste it but it doesn't satiate or fill that emotional need.

if that makes sense.

Haha she told me this exactly recently. That's so strange to me! That's the most frustrating part of it all for me as an INTJ. Trying to understand what you mean is like trying to picture anything beyond the third dimension
 

Amargith

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Haha she told me this exactly recently. That's so strange to me! That's the most frustrating part of it all for me as an INTJ. Trying to understand what you mean is like trying to picture anything beyond the third dimension


But its part of the fun ;)

Besides, you boys do this as well, sweetheart. Its kinda cute to wathc, especially as you *know* its totally illogical but cannot help it :D
 

Lady_X

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NF/NT Communication



Same...I actually found Stypgs post interesting because in my relationships with ITJs, I'm usually the dominant one. I've had relationships where I was not; overall neither was better than the other, provided that balance and mutual respect were otherwise an element of the relationship. Submissive doesn't necessarily mean "subordinate", imo

yeah..i can't really be submissive so much or let someone dominate my relationships. my experience with the itj was a constant power struggle tho....him trying to assert himself and me saying fucking stop! i will not tolerate anything less than equality so check that shit now dude!! for years and years...fun fun. :cheese:
 

Lady_X

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Haha she told me this exactly recently. That's so strange to me! That's the most frustrating part of it all for me as an INTJ. Trying to understand what you mean is like trying to picture anything beyond the third dimension

it's like really needing a hug and having them tell you just think about me hugging you and pretend.

or...something.

edit: hmmm...really shit example. i'll come up with something better....just you wait!!

edit again...i got nothin. :/
 

Amargith

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Interesting..I enjoy the break it gives me to have them control my life. But I fought it for 10 years, to keep my freedom and independence, at least at the core.

I'm starting to understand though, that with the right man, who respects you and values you for who you are, it is an honor to have them take over as you know they only have your best interest at heart. I'll gladly submit to that and trust in their natural leadership. I also know that at any given time I'm able to walk away...but I so don't want to.
 

Tallulah

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I just don't get it. It was a lie I said because I guess I subconsciously knew it would hurt her, but did not realize how sensitive an ENFP can be. If someone said that to me and then told me they didn't mean it and they were sincere, I would be like okay just don't do that again. I wouldn't reanalyze and entire relationship based on one lie. But now I know, and have vowed to never purposely hurt her again. Everyone makes mistakes right? Mine wasn't even calculated. Why can't she see that? I've explained exactly where I was coming from, and provided countless examples of how I truly think she is supportive of me and cares about me

You are not taking seriously how much you've hurt her with words that meant nothing to you. They obviously didn't mean nothing to HER. You have to own up to this sincerely, rather than coming to her with the attitude of, "Seriously, why can't you get over this? Sheesh!" I'm sure she can sense that attitude.

Satine's post,

:worthy:

Completely agree.

I think it's complete bullshit when someone I love lashes out at me because they are frustrated. They can lash out and express anger, but not personally at me. I didn't do anything. I am not there to be your emotional punching bag.

Satine's post was brilliant. Here it is again. http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/1214749-post26.html
Take it seriously, fecal.

Well I agree because in the end all I want is for us to be together and happy again. I have spoken my heart without trying to tell her what to think, and told her she can have her time and I'll wait because she is so important to me. The only thing I do regret is initially trying to share my logic and facts of the situation, I hope I didn't make it seem as if I was discounting her emotions or trying to manipulate her with logic, but I don't think it came off as that way because I was very genuine. I stopped with the logical arguments when we talked after I read this thread and how it could be perceived as bad, so thanks for the insight :) But at the same time, if it doesn't work out, then I know that I should we weary in being in a relationship with an ENFP since I know that their process is capable of drawing an incorrect decision of such magntitude (that I don't love her).

Nope. I'm an INTP chick and would have been deeply hurt by you lashing out at me in a concerted effort to hurt me. If I'm in a relationship with you, I've laid myself bare, like Satine indicated. That means I trust you to THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK. You don't get to say hurtful things to me just because you're in a bad mood that day. You can vent about other people all you want to me, and I'm cool. But you don't get to throw privileged information back in my face or poke around at my weaknesses or call me nasty names or anything of the like, then tell me you didn't mean it.

I can be furious at you and never throw crap in your face or act out to make you hurt the way I'm hurting. If I love you, I keep your heart safe. </feely language>
 

Lady_X

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You are not taking seriously how much you've hurt her with words that meant nothing to you. They obviously didn't mean nothing to HER. You have to own up to this sincerely, rather than coming to her with the attitude of, "Seriously, why can't you get over this? Sheesh!" I'm sure she can sense that attitude.



Satine's post was brilliant. Here it is again. http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/1214749-post26.html
Take it seriously, fecal.



Nope. I'm an INTP chick and would have been deeply hurt by you lashing out at me in a concerted effort to hurt me. If I'm in a relationship with you, I've laid myself bare, like Satine indicated. That means I trust you to THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK. You don't get to say hurtful things to me just because you're in a bad mood that day. You can vent about other people all you want to me, and I'm cool. But you don't get to throw privileged information back in my face or poke around at my weaknesses or call me nasty names or anything of the like, then tell me you didn't mean it.

I can be furious at you and never throw crap in your face or act out to make you hurt the way I'm hurting. If I love you, I keep your heart safe. </feely language>

that's it exactly tho. it's like the line you don't cross.
 

fecaleagle

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I have been studying Satine's post, along with the other helpful ones. I have learned so much from this thread in such a short period of time, I should have come here earlier. I feel like by not doing so, I was not being the best boyfriend I could be :( I've just been mentally preoccupied I guess and neglected both of our emotions in the relationship, which I will never do again. That's the good thing about many INTJs :) We don't really repeat mistakes once we figure out why we made them and why they were wrong, plus we are fast learners. I now fully understand that there is absolutely no objectivity when it comes to feeling. I feel foolish about trying to convince myself otherwise. I seriously hope my gf doesn't think I was trying to belittle her feelings. She has every right to have them, and they are just as valid as my logic. I surely hope that they can withstand the abuse that I put them through, and am content with either result because I lit the match on the fire. I hope she can trust me not only the same, but even more in the future and let her emotional guard down. I want to be able to do anything I can to take her inner sadness away. I hope she can put away all of the smiles and expose herself to me once again because I want to help her with all of her problems, either directly or indirectly by helping her grow. I feel emotionally confused right now :-/
 

Liesl

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I haven't read through this thread very carefully, but for what it's worth, you seem like an understanding and devoted INTJ. I think you should simply tell your ENFP girlfriend that you love her to pieces, that you're willing to do anything to make it work, and to please forgive you for your harsh words. That's all you can say. It's up to her to respond as she sees fit. She may not want to get back together with you, and at that point, you would need to move on.

I can't speak for all ENFPs but I would give an ex who was willing to put everything else aside to make our relationship work a second chance if I really loved him. In less serious relationships, my feelings diminished pretty quickly after the break up.
 

Lady_X

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I have been studying Satine's post, along with the other helpful ones. I have learned so much from this thread in such a short period of time, I should have come here earlier. I feel like by not doing so, I was not being the best boyfriend I could be :( I've just been mentally preoccupied I guess and neglected both of our emotions in the relationship, which I will never do again. That's the good thing about many INTJs :) We don't really repeat mistakes once we figure out why we made them and why they were wrong, plus we are fast learners. I now fully understand that there is absolutely no objectivity when it comes to feeling. I feel foolish about trying to convince myself otherwise. I seriously hope my gf doesn't think I was trying to belittle her feelings. She has every right to have them, and they are just as valid as my logic. I surely hope that they can withstand the abuse that I put them through, and am content with either result because I lit the match on the fire. I hope she can trust me not only the same, but even more in the future and let her emotional guard down. I want to be able to do anything I can to take her inner sadness away. I hope she can put away all of the smiles and expose herself to me once again because I want to help her with all of her problems, either directly or indirectly by helping her grow. I feel emotionally confused right now :-/

:hug:
 
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