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[MBTI General] xNFP females, do you tend to be better friends with males?

Synarch

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A lesson I have learnt by obtaining and creating a strong T.

There is this aphorism in Nietzsche's "Ecce Homo" that I often think about:

"When thou goest to woman, take thy whip."

On the surface it sounds misogynistic, but as with many of his aphorisms there are multiple interpretations that spur thought. The reason I think about it a lot is that I think each possible interpretation illuminates an essential fact of male / female relations.

Out of all the possible reasons to "take thy whip" I have come up with the following interpretations:

1. The whip as a tool of domination over women.
2. The whip as a tool for keeping women at bay, much like a lion tamer keeps lions at bay.
3. The whip as a means to punish yourself in front of women or because of women.
4. The whip as a tool a woman uses to dominate men, ie. take your whip so that she can whip you.
5. The whip as a tool for spurring action.

In any case, I think there is something thought provoking about it. And I consider it often. There is a force at work that keeps us at odds with one another. And that same force attracts us irrevocably to one another.
 

Lady_X

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you know what i've realized. i've just almost never been single. that's why i didn't think too much about being friends with guys in the past or why i am apparently too nice if a guy hits on me. i've just never been available so none if it mattered...huh...weird.

not really relevant i guess...just thinking out loud sorry.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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I can see these all as good representations. The third seems to ring out most. As this appears as the most painful.
 

Synarch

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So if a guy has about 4 female friends he considers good friends, then has feelings for all of them? These friendships continue even when said guy has a girlfriend?

:huh:

IDK....I am not naive so that I don't recognize that a man making efforts to see & communicate with a woman apart from some social group is usually because he has romantic/sexual interests, but I do think that friendships can form beyond casual, friendly acquaintance in a group.

Men are friends with women for a whole range of reasons that have nothing to do with sincere appreciation. Just as women are friends with men for a whole range of reasons that have nothing to do with sincere appreciation.

Just off the top of my head:

1. Being friends with women frees one from hierarchical considerations at work in friendships with men.
2. Being friends with women is gratifying to the ego.
3. Positive attention from women is always pleasurable.
4. Being friends with women is a powerful form of social proof. In De Waal's "Primate Politics", he describes the phenomenon that to be successful as a prospective alpha male among chimpanzees, one must first enlist the support of the females of the group.
5. Women who support you will talk well about you to other women.
6. If other men know women like you, they may try to curry your favor.
7. Friendships with women can provide emotional supports you may not be experiencing in your own relationship.

There are probably several other reasons I am not thinking of.
 

Synarch

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you know what i've realized. i've just almost never been single. that's why i didn't think too much about being friends with guys in the past or why i am apparently too nice if a guy hits on me. i've just never been available so none if it mattered...huh...weird.

You mean you wouldn't want male friends if you were in a relationship?
 

Lady_X

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You mean you wouldn't want male friends if you were in a relationship?
i mean that since i was always in one i didn't always assume that guys who were friendly with me wanted more.
 

Magic Poriferan

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1. Being friends with women frees one from hierarchical considerations at work in friendships with men.
2. Being friends with women is gratifying to the ego.
3. Positive attention from women is always pleasurable.
4. Being friends with women is a powerful form of social proof. In De Waal's "Primate Politics", he describes the phenomenon that to be successful as a prospective alpha male among chimpanzees, one must first enlist the support of the females of the group.
5. Women who support you will talk well about you to other women.
6. If other men know women like you, they may try to curry your favor.
7. Friendships with women can provide emotional supports you may not be experiencing in your own relationship.

Most of these sounds true even if you take women out of them and leave them sexually ambiguous.
 

OrangeAppled

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Men are friends with women for a whole range of reasons that have nothing to do with sincere appreciation. Just as women are friends with men for a whole range of reasons that have nothing to do with sincere appreciation.

Just off the top of my head:

1. Being friends with women frees one from hierarchical considerations at work in friendships with men.
2. Being friends with women is gratifying to the ego.
3. Positive attention from women is always pleasurable.
4. Being friends with women is a powerful form of social proof. In De Waal's "Primate Politics", he describes the phenomenon that to be successful as a prospective alpha male, one must first enlist the support of the females of the group.
5. Women who support you will talk well about you to other women.
6. If other men know women like you, they may try to curry your favor.
7. Friendships with women can provide emotional supports you may not be experiencing in your own relationship.

There are probably several other reasons I am not thinking of.

These seem sort of calculating to me, although I don't doubt they are at work sometimes....and I think you could apply many for women also, but I still don't think that is always the case. Or at times, it's partially the case - why choose one woman over another? Maybe you do enjoy one more, even if part of the motive has nothing to do with that.

In reference to the "sexless" idea, I think there can be a brother-sister dynamic that develops. I don't think it means you forget what gender the person is subconsciously or cease to react to them as the opposite gender, but you just don't regard them as any romantic/sexual potential partner. Maybe in such a case it is easier for a woman to develop this view, and maybe the guy often does see the woman as, well, not womanly, but it's still a real friendship nonetheless.
 

Lady_X

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Ah, but now it seems that they always want more?

i haven't been single long...but that wasn't my point. i'm just saying you and others are saying they do and i can sense needing to be even more guarded about that in the future....perhaps.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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Ah, yes. 'The brother-sister dynamic', how I love thee. The relationships in question also greatly depend on the enviroment in which you create the relationship in.
 

Synarch

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These seem sort of calculating to me, although I don't doubt they are at work sometimes....and I think you could apply many for women also, but I still don't think that is always the case. Or at times, it's partially the case - why choose one woman over another? Maybe you do enjoy one more, even if part of the motive has nothing to do with that.

It does sound calculating. I don't think people act this way for these reasons, but I do think they enjoy these benefits.

In reference to the "sexless" idea, I think there can be a brother-sister dynamic that develops. I don't think it means you forget what gender the person is subconsciously or cease to react to them as the opposite gender, but you just don't regard them as any romantic/sexual potential partner. Maybe in such a case it is easier for a woman to develop this view, and maybe the guy often does see the woman as, well, not womanly, but it's still a real friendship nonetheless.

You bring up a point that is always compelling to me and that is the brother / sister dynamic. I have never had sisters so for me women have always loomed large in my life. If they were peers, they were not familiar to me the way a sister would be. I do think it is possible for this to be at work, but since I have such little experience with it it is difficult for me to take into account though I know it is another model of interaction.

Over the last year I have really been trying to be better friends with women, but it definitely seems easier if I can put everyone into some sort of bounded box. Right now, I've basically decided that I can be friendly but not really friends. Not the way I am friends with men.
 

Lady_X

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what if you really liked her but weren't attracted to her? have you never experienced that?
 

Synarch

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i haven't been single long...but that wasn't my point. i'm just saying you and others are saying they do and i can sense needing to be even more guarded about that in the future....perhaps.

There are probably men who can be friends with women. I mean, I'm very cynical so I would hate for you to take me too seriously. It is just something I think it might be worth being aware of.
 

Synarch

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what if you really liked her but weren't attracted to her? have you never experienced that?

It's difficult for me to see most women as equals mainly because I don't know many who I respect for their intellect or talents. Respect is how men like one another.

The ones who I am friends with tend to be the wives or girlfriends of friends of mine and I find that I treat them a bit paternalistically if I can act paternalistic without seeming patronizing, which they would find hurtful and offensive. I find myself motivated to look out for them and protect them rather than really relating to them. They just seem so foreign from me in what they concern themselves with.

I do know women whose intellects I really respect and we tend to get along very well. I seem to also desire this in a romantic partner.
 
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