[MBTI General] Typical INFP - INTJ conversation

[William K]

To extend this logic (or lack thereof), consider buying a can of paint. Since paint cans are typically hammered shut at the store after mixing (no photons in or out), the paint inside has no color until opened at home?!

Schrodinger's Paint!

 

[Abstract Thinker]

^ Now THAT is funny.

 

[William K]

^ Now THAT is funny.

It's funnier in my 2nd language of Malay where paint = cat

 

[under skies]

It's funnier in my 2nd language of Malay where paint = cat

Okay, that is funny.

 

[Sabre]

INTJ here

Well, from my experience with INFP our conversations are, arguments everytime.

Seams that every opinion I say that disagrees with them its a direct offence for their beliefs and act aggressively towards me. They complain that I "Mr. Wise Guy" when I try to discuss something with them when instead of knowing everything when I'm discussing with them I'm actually learning. I bothered them with MBTI because they hate it, and hate if I look that I know them.

But we have good conversations too, as INTJ with high Ni I can think of lots of silly things and that is refreshing a lot (I am silly most of the times in social groups )

But off topic: I just wish I knew how to deal with INFPs and get along.

 

[Rebe]

^ I think that's a two-person fault. You may come off too aggressive, attacking, know-it-all and push their buttons exactly the right way or all the infps you know are super sensitive and is in their moral-champion mode. When we defend ideas or feelings, we have good intentions, we believe in our principals. On the other hand, sometimes *I* may go overboard - that can be because I am stressed or feeling 'vulnerable' or 'under attack' or 'confused about my own ideas and want to verbalize it'. But I won't (usually) go over if no one provokes me. I don't go around breathing fire down everyone's throats.

I'd say examine how you communicate with them and see if it is partially your fault also, not just theirs. But it could be theirs solely - meet some healthier, stabler infps. I spend some time with an INTJ (though he has developed Fi) and we argued in a ugly way only once but I argued for about ten minutes and decide it wasn't worth going on about. He has his perspective and I have mine - we can both learn from each other and fully develop our perceptions with each other's support and different expertise. I tried to understand from his point and try to see how mine might collide or be similar to --- I am always shaping my ideals to make it more 'logical, realistic, true, fair, contemporary, etc' I learned from him (as he did from me or so he said, IDK) so it's not an inevitably awful friendship.

 

[hybrid_rainbow]

After 45 years, I have finally and fully realized that being "nice" is much more useful (and fun) than being "right."

I disagree with this simply because

1) Being nice and being right aren't mutually exclusive. It depends on the definition of "nice" and who is making the judgment of whether or not something is "nice". For example, an INTJ may think that by telling you the factual truth, he is being nice. And in a way, he might be (e.g. he thinks he's doing you a favor by stopping you from believing in something incorrect or by preventing you from being maliciously swayed)

2) What kind of fun conversations would we have if we tried to be "nice" instead of "right" all the time? It's in the spirit of the discussion to express your opinions and defend them (as long as you give due attention and sincere consideration of the other person's opinions)! I've had many excellent debates with INTJs and the key is to not take it personally even when it gets heated. So much fun.

 

[Coriolis]

Well, from my experience with INFP our conversations are, arguments everytime.

Seams that every opinion I say that disagrees with them its a direct offence for their beliefs and act aggressively towards me. They complain that I "Mr. Wise Guy" when I try to discuss something with them when instead of knowing everything when I'm discussing with them I'm actually learning. I bothered them with MBTI because they hate it, and hate if I look that I know them.

But we have good conversations too, as INTJ with high Ni I can think of lots of silly things and that is refreshing a lot (I am silly most of the times in social groups )

I have had deep and stimulating discussions with INFPs, and for the most part, have enjoyed immensely the company of those I recognize as INFPs. At the same time, I have had the impression that some of them have found me hard to take. One actually told me so, in some detail, and we had a very candid and respectful discussion about how to communicate better to avoid misunderstandings and accommodate each other's styles. I have been on good terms with this person for years now. Other INFPs, however, have said nothing, but still left me with that impression. Can any INFPs here advise me on what is going on in these encounters? Is my impression probably in error, or are INFPs just not disposed to tell people when they get on their nerves?

 

[Sabre]

For Rebe and Coriolis


Since I've talked to INFP its like walking in a field of mines, as it is said lots of times.
I can't be myself and can't properly have deep conversations with INFPs because they think every time I say "you this", "you that", "in your case" every time I use the pronoun "you" and say something they just explode, think I'm so sure of something and can't make a good discussion with me. When I talk about preferences if I disagree a lot (for myself) about something they like they just explode again and say that don't want to bother them any more.

In the end, for me to safely walk in the mine field. Our conversations are just completely chitchat and I can't go further and deeper in a friendship (I can't know that person and she won't know me either), I'll just go safely in the mine field but I'll never reach the other side of it.

It's frustration, that's why I can't just leave it behind.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

INTJ here

Well, from my experience with INFP our conversations are, arguments everytime.

Hmm, I've been talking to a female INFP for a while now and I've never experienced an argument with her. We undoubtably have our disagreements but they are generally expressed in a civil or respectful manner. I accept her for who she is and in return she's graced me with the same. It also helps that we agree on a boatload of things but if we didn't, we both can be assured that we believe in what we do because we think it is the best. I always approach intense discussion with as much of an open mind as I possibly can - it's difficult, of course, sometimes, but possible nonetheless.

Seams that every opinion I say that disagrees with them its a direct offence for their beliefs and act aggressively towards me. They complain that I "Mr. Wise Guy" when I try to discuss something with them when instead of knowing everything when I'm discussing with them I'm actually learning. I bothered them with MBTI because they hate it, and hate if I look that I know them.

Sounds like you're the one who's on the offensive. Tone it down, methinks. Not every argument has to be won or fought.

But off topic: I just wish I knew how to deal with INFPs and get along.

Roll over.

 

[stringstheory]

Seams that every opinion I say that disagrees with them its a direct offence for their beliefs and act aggressively towards me. They complain that I "Mr. Wise Guy" when I try to discuss something with them when instead of knowing everything when I'm discussing with them I'm actually learning. I bothered them with MBTI because they hate it, and hate if I look that I know them.

Are you positive they are actually offended? It could be they're just really passionate A lot of people tend to confuse my love for debate as being aggressive or irritated, but really it's just my own brand of enthusiasm because yes, my beliefs are a very strong part of my own identity. I can still listen and appreciate others points of view though, but i won't pretend i'm not enthusiastically expressing my strongly held beliefs.

 

[Sabre]

Sounds like you're the one who's on the offensive. Tone it down, methinks. Not every argument has to be won or fought.

Exactly, its my point, not every argument has to be won, but INFPs just blow up like I'm trying to win it. As I say, I argue because I want to learn, not to show that I'm right.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Who knows then.

 

[William K]

Exactly, its my point, not every argument has to be won, but INFPs just blow up like I'm trying to win it. As I say, I argue because I want to learn, not to show that I'm right.

Do you mean learning as in trying to understand why an INFP does/says something?

Example -
INTJ : I believe in A
INFP : I believe in B
INTJ : Why?

 

[Talisyn]

Not addressed to me, but going to reply anyway...

For Rebe and Coriolis


Since I've talked to INFP its like walking in a field of mines, as it is said lots of times.

I don't think I'm a field of mines in this: my good and true friends know what topics not to press- and are respectful of it, and those who aren't I'm more forgiving of and just ignore. Sure its true I don't go around shouting THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE! THIS IS WHAT REALLY TICKS ME OFF! but those who have addressed those topics in a non-judgmental so what do you think about this? or that? way truly know what is not up for debate & what not to do.

I can't be myself and can't properly have deep conversations with INFPs because they think every time I say "you this", "you that", "in your case" every time I use the pronoun "you" and say something they just explode, think I'm so sure of something and can't make a good discussion with me.

Because "you" this or "you" that sounds presumptuous and unless you have been my best buddy for the last 10 years do not PRESUME to know me. If its in relation to MBTI say "I've noticed other INFP's....." if it's my faith you may say "I've noticed other Christians" if its my profession you may say "I've noticed other teachers..." and if it is truly ME then be specific and gentle "I've noticed when such and such happens YOU tend to do *this* like when *cite incident*" Stop there and leave open for me to address.

When I talk about preferences if I disagree a lot (for myself) about something they like they just explode again and say that don't want to bother them any more.

My goal is to find common ground to chat about. If it appears that you differ in many things we try to talk about I may become very frustrated because it *sounds* like you are being contentious. I also don't want to go on about how your preference or opinion differs from mine. I'd rather just move on.

In the end, for me to safely walk in the mine field. Our conversations are just completely chitchat and I can't go further and deeper in a friendship (I can't know that person and she won't know me either), I'll just go safely in the mine field but I'll never reach the other side of it.

For what its worth I think the basic communication tips I've left should help you in communicating more successfully. Of course, I don't refer to your INFP friend whom I don't know, but only to myself as a very strong INFP type person.

 

[Talisyn]

Do you mean learning as in trying to understand why an INFP does/says something?

Example -
INTJ : I believe in A
INFP : I believe in B
INTJ : Why?

Even "why?" can sound trivializing depending on how you say it... delivery is so important-
If you want me to open up because you are genuinely curious:
INTJ : I believe in A
INFP : I believe in B
INTJ : Oh, I've heard a bit about B, but I chose A because of this. What caused you to decide on B?

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

I think it is most likely that Sabre is approaching them improperly.

 

[Sabre]

MagnificentMind is right, that's why I'm here I need help.

INTJ : I believe in A
INFP : I believe in B
INTJ : Why?

Why mostly can make them go "I don't want to explaining that to you" once someone told me that they think they are never understood by others, get mad and react like this.

And I repeat, I never get pissed off out of opinion, the conversarion just goes like:
>We talk
>We start discussion
>She talks about something she likes
>I tell her I don't like and I say why
>She just goes "STOP JUDGING ME"
>I go like "wow chill what did I do wrong?"
>*Drama*
>Etc

I say this in a very summarized way she isn't a craze person and does´t go start typing on caps if you know what I mean.

 

[stringstheory]

>We talk
>We start discussion
>She talks about something she likes
>I tell her I don't like and I say why
>She just goes "STOP JUDGING ME"
>I go like "wow chill what did I do wrong?"
>*Drama*
>Etc.

This is probably what's getting you in trouble; sorry but INTJs aren't notorious for being the most sensitive people with their words I have a feeling the way you are wording things, while maybe not that bad to you, come off as judgmental of people who have differing opinions from you, and INFPs are very sensitive to this. I'd examine that if you can. We value efficiency with words too, just in terms of being sensitive of how others might be perceiving our choice of words.

 

[Arthur Schopenhauer]

Why do you even want to talk to these people so badly? I would have blacklisted them the first time they blew up on me.