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  1. #21
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky is BLUE! View Post
    You crack me up, AO. Is she still trying to get you presents? I get your rationale but yeah...it's inconsiderate...very inconsiderate. One could also argue that it's inconsiderate to keep ignoring what the other person wants or needs. But I'm sure your mother had the best intentions in mind and it meant something to her, an expression that she cares about you. It's not wrong to express your opinion but it's all about the wording because this is the sure way to hurt people's feelings when it's not really necessary. If you want things to go your way, it might be best to try to take an approach that wouldn't be so blunt but rather that explains your reasons some more.

    I know. This is why I roll my eyes almost every time when one of the NFP inhere says that I should not hide myself that much and that they would prefer "real" me always. What can I say ? I am naturally pretty direct.



    Actually the reason why I have said that is because I have warned her in advance that I probably will not really care about the present. Plus I wanted to discurage her from doing that ever again. (that is why I was so brutal)
    So we made a deal: if there is a special day coming up and I want something I will tell her and she will buy me that as present. (if she wants to do that)

  2. #22
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Tell me something NFs, how wrong it is to say something like this to someone who is close to you.



    To be honest with you, I don't really appreciate that you did this for me and the fact you did it personally means nothing to me.


    This is what my mother got a few years back for buying me a birthday persent

    haha. This is so classic INTJ. It's how my eldest son speaks to me when he wants to try to cop the upper hand for a bit. I roll with it and think it's kinda funny, usually throw some quip back at him. It's fun and I don't take it personally. I also know that he knows that he can't go around talking like that irl, and be successful with people. But I'm glad he can be himself around me.
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  3. #23
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    Words still retain power in cause and effect, some people forget that :p

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antisocial one View Post
    Actually the reason why I have said that is because I have warned her in advance that I probably will not really care about the present. Plus I wanted to discurage her from doing that ever again. (that is why I was so brutal)
    So we made a deal: if there is a special day coming up and I want something I will tell her and she will buy me that as present. (if she wants to do that)
    I'm potentially going to go against the grain and say that you were pretty well justified in what you said and exactly how you said it, given that you already told her that you didn't want anything

    Now, if you'd initially used the 'brutal' phrasing from your previous post.. then, yeah, you'd probably want to watch your wording.

  5. #25
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post


    I read between lines and am very sensitive to word choice & phrasing. Tone of voice is more noticeable for me than body language & facial expressions though. I can't say I read people that well physically, even if I note it. I pick up on emotional vibes better.
    Exactly!

    Sometimes I will think my wife (ESTJ) is really upset about something and I'll be trying to drag out of her what the issue is. And eventually she'll repeat the original statement she made that concerned me, and she has since changed 1 word and the whole thing is has a totally different implication. Of course, she can't pick up the difference at all and she thinks she said the exact same thing to me both times.

  6. #26
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stalemate View Post
    Exactly!

    Sometimes I will think my wife (ESTJ) is really upset about something and I'll be trying to drag out of her what the issue is. And eventually she'll repeat the original statement she made that concerned me, and she has since changed 1 word and the whole thing is has a totally different implication. Of course, she can't pick up the difference at all and she thinks she said the exact same thing to me both times.
    I think that's the root of a lot of NF (maybe NFP in particular?) communication problems with other types. We tend to think to ourselves, "well, I would only phrase it that way were I upset/irritated/resentful/whatever." While some of us can be sloppy in other ways, we tend to be very intentional in the emotional connotations of our word choices.

  7. #27
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    My friend has often referred to me as "Miss. Sensitive" because any little thing that people say or do, even in joking, upsets me. All my friends know that they always have to watch exactly what they say to me because I'm so fragile.

    Example: In school I had to re-take algebra one. While working on homework with a friend, she was working on her prestigious algebra 2 homework. She forgot that I wasn't in algebra 2 and asked "Can you help me?"

    "Nope, sorry." I said. "I get to work on algebra 1 'cause I'm special." I was joking then she says. "No not 'cause your special, 'cause you failed."

    Well, she didn't say it in a malicious tone, but I was so upset I told her to go home and not talk to me.

  8. #28
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Especially if I get a baseline for someone's style of communication, it is nearly impossible to offend me if there is not offense intended. The main miscommunications occur when I don't know the person, or if I am the one who hasn't communicated accurately enough. I'm not claiming I always understand what people are saying, but have a process of not concluding and continually gathering information that does attempt to maximize accuracy. I pay attention to word patterns that people use as well as body language. My memory is geared towards keeping track of patterns of how various people communicate in order to get a baseline to know what they mean better. I make a concerted effort to understand.

    People often equate sensitivity and easy offense to NFs, but it is rare I get offended. I can think of a few times, but those tend to be larger scale prejudices that affect a lot of people and the perpetrator might even be oblivious to what they are doing. The things that offend me are the least personal directly. If any person ever felt concerned they have offended me, that is a sort of proof they haven't. If they had, I would still be gathering information and would eventually stumble onto the fact it was not intended as hurt, and then we're good.

    In smaller group dynamics throughout my life and in every conceivable situation I've noticed often people becoming offended by something an individual does, and it never occurs to me to be offended. I wonder if it is spaciness, or a lack of some sort of skill, or a sort of empathy where I'm viewing the scene from each individual separately as opposed to group norms and expectations. It makes me fear I could easily offend others in groups and so default to being quiet, listening, and smiling.

    The only times I have come close to feeling comfortable in any group is at Science Fiction conventions and experimental art shows. Those are places where anyone is accepted and there isn't much of a vibe of annoyance or offense. In most other places I walk on eggshells because there are so many expectations that I care nothing about, but also don't want negative attention and punishment for being spacy about it. So am I offended when punished for missing a social expectation? Not exactly, because I can see it is important to many people. I just prefer to find a way to avoid the conflict in the first place.
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  9. #29
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Personally I notice the tone of a person's voice more than anything else, I find it very telling. I'm also not very sensitive to offense, usually being the one making crass, offensive jokes in a conversation if I feel the other person can take it.

    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    People often equate sensitivity and easy offense to NFs, but it is rare I get offended. I can think of a few times, but those tend to be larger scale prejudices that affect a lot of people and the perpetrator might even be oblivious to what they are doing. The things that offend me are the least personal directly.
    Are you perchance an NFJ?
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  10. #30
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Personally I notice the tone of a person's voice more than anything else, I find it very telling. I'm also not very sensitive to offense, usually being the one making crass, offensive jokes in a conversation if I feel the other person can take it.


    Are you perchance an NFJ?
    Something like that.

    I guess I do get offended at elitism, but not as much at individual elitists because I know they have pressures from family and friends to maintain a certain hoity-toitness in order to have a place in the world. It's the system I dislike. It will absorb some form of prejudice [slot in anything] as a way of defining superiority. This is usually done without even noticing they share the negative traits they are imposing on their "inferior" group. After enough time and repetition I will smack it down when my patience runs out. It's probably an exercise in futility. It still isn't intended as personal because everyone gets stuck in various negative systems.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)


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