[NF] The NF Females' List of Deal Breakers

[Esoteric Wench]

The most accurate and reliable indicator of how a man will treat you in a relationship can be deduced from observing how his father treats his mother.

Um. Just be careful. If he has too good of a relationship with his mother, there won't be room for you, dear.

I agree with Marm here.

Seems like the most accurate and reliable indicator of how a man will treat you in a relationship can be deduced by how he has treated past girlfriends. If I had to pick between analyzing his relationship with his mother and his ex, I'd choose the ex.

Thessaly is right that his relationship with his mother will inform his interactions with women. But how his maternal dealings influence his SO dealings can be very complicated. For example, his mother may be just plain nutso. And he might display maturity by holding her at arms length. Another son might be raised to be a Mammoni (Italian, for mama's boy) and hasn't had enough life experience to properly individuate himself.

What's most relevant is how he treats his girlfriend who's stuck in the middle of all this.

 

[runvardh]

So what does it mean if I ripped my mother a new one over her trying to pressure money out of the girlfriend I had at the time?

 

[Esoteric Wench]

these lists are RIDICULOUS I think my own list has exactly 5 things...sure, there are many things I might "think" I would prefer, but there are only 5 things that "must be"..

First of all, Babylon Candle, what are your five things? Come'on, let's hear it. You've gotta cough'em up now.

Outside of "kind", I find the 2 of the 3 pretty shallow compared to what many of the lists in here have. It seems to simply lack detailing the obvious & elaborating on what "interesting to talk to" & "cute enough" means to these men individually rather than being less picky (ie. Would you date a pedophile? No? that's a dealbreaker, albeit obvious). Vague doesn't equal less picky....it just means you're less articulate in describing what you desire.

I completely agree with OrangeAppled that vague doesn't equal less picky. It may mean that you just haven't thought the matter through.

Perhaps one of the reasons I've so strongly advocated that women embrace making such lists is that for the majority of my dating life my dumb self did not. This caused both me AND the men I dated a lot of pain.

I'm in my late 30s right now. I wince when I look back over the past 20 years and think about how much time I wasted on relationships that clearly weren't right for me.

I wish I could tell my 20-to-35-year-old dumb self to never settle for less than I deserved. Perhaps this is an issue with which we ENFP/INFPs have to struggle in comparison with our ENFJ/INFJ sisters.

In typical ENFP fashion, I didn't want to violate my principles nor lop off my options. Back then when a man offered me his pitch and woo, I was overly concerned with being judgmental (violating my principles); and, I worried about not keeping my options open in case I learned more about my potential suitor that would change my mind about him (not limiting my options).

I wish I could have known then what I know now: That not being upfront about what I need/want from a man is unkind both to me and him. It took a lot of humility for me to admit that I was not a super woman or nor was I a saint. That I could not make a relationship work with just anybody. It took personal courage to re-examine my reasoning and admit to myself that even Esoteric Wench needs certain things from her significant other not just for her to be happy, but also so she could be the best woman possible.

Finally, I had to realize that I had put some of these men in terrible positions by setting them up for failure. One of the kindest things I can do for such a man is to push him out the door. Doesn't he deserve to be with a woman that thinks he is the most awesome man in the world? Doesn't he deserve the joy of knowing that he can make his SO completely and totally happy? Isn't it unfair for commit to a relationship with someone with whom I am destined to continually try to change so that he's a better fit for me?

Making a detailed list of what I want from a man isn't shallow or selfish. Being too vague and not thinking through what I need to be happy is shallow and selfish.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

So what does it mean if I ripped my mother a new one over her trying to pressure money out of the girlfriend I had at the time?

Egad! Even without all the details that sounds horrendous. So sorry your mother was being such a jerk.

I would consider it a very good sign that you stood up to her for what you saw as immoral behavior.

 

[Thessaly]

Um.



Just be careful. If he has too good of a relationship with his mother, there won't be room for you, dear.

I think you're just looking to pointlessly argue with my list for whatever reason. There's nothing inherently wrong with wanting a husband from a stable background with healthy relationships with his family and a high IQ. Let me know when you have an argument I can address.

Esoteric, what are the chances of one receiving an objective, detailed analysis of an ex's past relationship? How do you suppose you're going to get that information? From the horse's mouth? From his friends? From the ex herself?

It's easier to just observe the parents at the dinner table and it is actually the more telling relationship according to leading research on this matter.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

Esoteric, what are the chances of one receiving an objective, detailed analysis of an ex's past relationship? How do you suppose you're going to get that information? From the horse's mouth? From his friends? From the ex herself?

It's easier to just observe the parents at the dinner table and it is actually the more telling relationship according to leading research on this matter.

Well you have a point there. I guess you can tell a lot from how he talks about his exes. But you're usually not going to find out anything unless you travel in the same circles...

Then again, I'm pretty shameless. If possible, I'd work my contacts to get the scoop. I've never been one to be afraid to unleash my E.

 

[You]

That's not true. Pedophiles, killers, sociopaths work and live among "normal" folks and often blend in so perfectly because of their perfection. You'd never be able to tell until it was too late. Dudes are vague. Women are not. That doesn't make our lists "unrealistic" or unworthy of consideration. In general, people seem to find the way men communicate (vague and often shallow) more acceptable while women are seen as asking for too much when we have details. Interesting.

Men are so vague. I wonder why?

Because were more loving, of course.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

That's not true. Pedophiles, killers, sociopaths work and live among "normal" folks and often blend in so perfectly because of their perfection. You'd never be able to tell until it was too late. Dudes are vague. Women are not. That doesn't make our lists "unrealistic" or unworthy of consideration. In general, people seem to find the way men communicate (vague and often shallow) more acceptable while women are seen as asking for too much when we have details. Interesting.

Men are so vague. I wonder why?

Because were more loving, of course.

I wouldn't say vague. Perhaps, "singleminded pursuit of their goal" would be a better phrase to employ here.

 

[ConstantlyImagining]

That's not true. Pedophiles, killers, sociopaths work and live among "normal" folks and often blend in so perfectly because of their perfection. You'd never be able to tell until it was too late. Dudes are vague. Women are not. That doesn't make our lists "unrealistic" or unworthy of consideration. In general, people seem to find the way men communicate (vague and often shallow) more acceptable while women are seen as asking for too much when we have details. Interesting.

Men are so vague. I wonder why?

You do mean that as a generalistaion, right? After all, the "rule" that can be ascertained from the analysis of a local sample or even from the meta-analysis of several local samples cannot be reasonably assumed to applicable to a whole demographic group without exceptions. Communication can be considered an art form- an attempt to render feelings, thoughts,insights,et cetera that exist in someone's mind into a format from which another person can grasp said feelings,thoughts,insights,et cetera. And as such every human being can be said to possess their own unique style, or styles, of communication

 

[Thessaly]

Well you have a point there. I guess you can tell a lot from how he talks about his exes. But you're usually not going to find out anything unless you travel in the same circles...

Then again, I'm pretty shameless. If possible, I'd work my contacts to get the scoop. I've never been one to be afraid to unleash my E.

ENFPs are much bolder than me.

 

[21%]

I've been meaning to post for a long time, but when it came to it I couldn't write down my thoughts and I ended up spending almost a week thinking about what I really want

Here goes a rather incomplete list:

Must haves:
- Open-mindedness
- Emotional availability
- Proper respect for all life and all things in the universe
- Values monogamy and long-term relationships

Rather nots:
- Dangerous hobbies (I'm Se-deficient and don't enjoy those at all)
- Doesn't want kids ever

Deal-breakers:
- Lack of humility (the "I'm better than everybody" attitude)
- Misogynistic, racist, overly patriotic or religious, etc. (the "My-[whatever]-is-better-than-other-[whatever]s" attitude)
- Materialistic/shallow
- Reckless


In short, I just need another bright-eyed self-aware human-being, with a do-no-harm attitude, who wants to walk with me on this journey towards understanding life and the universe

 

[Esoteric Wench]

- Dangerous hobbies (I'm Se-deficient and don't enjoy those at all)

You think you have sh*tty Se, what about me?

INFJ—Ni>Fe>Ti>Se>Ne>Fi>Te>Si
ENFP—Ne>Fi>Te>Si>Ni>Fe>Ti>Se

That made me laugh.

I just need another bright-eyed self-aware human-being, with a do-no-harm attitude, who wants to walk with me on this journey towards understanding life and the universe

I thought this was beautiful. It literally made me suck in my breath... And if I could sum up in one sentence (all joking, silly lists aside) what I was looking for in a significant other, it would be this. I always enjoy your posts 21%. So I'm glad you ruminated on it for the past week and decided to share.

 

[Ivy]

You're making an awful lot of assumptions here. I stated the information I would like supplied; not the results I would settle for.

The most accurate and reliable indicator of how a man will treat you in a relationship can be deduced from observing how his father treats his mother.

I would like my husband to have a good relationship with his mother for other reasons.

While I agree in principle with the idea of observing a person's family relationships and gleaning useful information from it, I can't quite agree about the "how his father treats his mother is probably how he will treat you" just because I've seen so many exceptions to it. IME, if a guy is a good guy he's not likely to treat his partner badly, even if he has a douchey dad. And people whose parents are divorced are not lost causes.

Having said that, I did want to see my partner respecting his mother, but also not being overly attached to her as an adult man.

 

[Venom]

First of all, Babylon Candle, what are your five things? Come'on, let's hear it. You've gotta cough'em up now.

well, I'm a man...(so this is the wrong thread), but you asked:

Wants & Needs:

1. Cute (Don’t want a high maintenance super model)
2. Reliable (Not a flake)
3. Clear and Direct Communicator (No games)
4. Sensitive (Not someone who is emotionless)
5. Thrives with a S.O. of ‘intense’ personality

I think I probably would work best with a "non-party animal" SP.

 

[neptunesnet]

3. Clear and Direct Communicator (No games)

Says the ENFJ? Hah-larious!

 

[Venom]

Says the ENFJ? Hah-larious!

thats the issue though!

my natural style of communication, for so long:
<> got me out of binds
<> danced around difficult issues
<> was only clear to people who already "intuitively" got what I was getting at

It was only doing "half the job". Explicit communicators weren't getting me, and thus they'd then be unclear with me back...and so that hurts communication overall. So I recently have taken on more explicit communication. Its like transformative! It helps me feel more balanced to try to filter my thoughts into being more explicit. I could never actually be a great explicit person, so when I try, I end up somewhere wonderfully in the middle!

I've noticed though that sadly its still not my default way of communicating. I think I just realize that having two "implicit communicators" in a relationship might mean that no one ever feels heard, sure of what the other wants etc. At least one of us should be an explicit communicator!

 

[prplchknz]

1. Must-haves
Sensitivity
Loyalty
Cultured
Patient
Shares my odd sense of humor
Understanding
Affectionate
Medium length hair (Not buzzed, but not goldilocks either.)
Smells good
Not afraid to be a dork with me.
Loves animals
Not afraid to express themselves emotionally
Romantic
Well-built body. Not completely whimpy, but not full-on macho muscle man either.
Likes to help other people

2. Would Like, But Not A Must
English
Scottish
Irish
Italian
Amazing artistic ability
Great writer

3. Rather not, but if I really loved them, I'd put up with
Mentally ill
Mute
Smokes
Drinks
Does drugs
Every other word out of their mouth is a swear word
Military man
Obese

4. Flat Out Deal Breakers
Insensitive
Has no sense of humor, or doesn't share mine
Emits a foul and unpleasent odor
Close minded
Hates animals
Values drinking more than he values me or family
Obsessed with sports
Beards, moustaches, goatees or any other type of facial hair
Doesn't apologize after doing something wrong, or never accepts my apologies
Obsessed with sex
Shallow
Impatient
Easily angered
Too much muscles
Thinks cheating or "swapping" is okay
Hairy
Thinks the world revovles around them

I'm laughing so hard right now, and you will never know why

 

[Domino]

Must Have:

1. Inherent sense of personal self-control, patience, and graciousness
2. High intelligence
3. Straight forward - I do not "read between lines". Say what you mean or GTFO.
4. Taller than my own height of 5 ft 6in
5. Concerned (but not obsessed) with healthy living and being physically responsible
6. Shared interests
7. A solid sense of humor
8. A deeply-ingrained need for compassion and kindness in daily common life

Would Like:

1. An ENTP to bounce up and down on?
2. Another vegetarian or vegan
2. Oh alright, a library and a dirigible! That trumps everything else.

Don't Want On a Plane OR a Train, Sam I Am:

1. I will not rationalize your porn problem. Grow up. Join the rest of the adults. Find a real woman who shares your fantasies and actually LIVE it.
2. Political rabies
3. Anti-religious/Pro-religious zealots
4. If you like Evanescence, get away from me. Now. No, faster...
5. Hipster BS in all of it's vapid glory
6. Baseball
7. "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!! I EAT PALEO AND IT'S JESUS!!!"
8. Conflated egotistical brittle Napoleons who can't even lose a game of Scrabble gracefully

 

[Wolfie]

Is it INFP of me to be inherently disinclined to create such a list?

 

[Lexicon]

My prime deal breaker with any man is that he is not a cat.