[ENFP] ENFP Teacher - Help! I need more J!

[lithasblot]

I, of course, have no problem getting kids excited, coming up with cool projects to do, etc. etc.

My biggest problem is when I have to be "the meanie." I find it so difficult to be tough enough and maintain tough standards all year (I teach High School). It's not that I want to be liked. It's more that I can see all the possibilities and permutations and have trouble deciding that the standard I've set is indeed the final standard. I might allow a kid to change the requirements for a project mid-project if it seems like what s/he wants to do would be really cool! But that messes up my consistency with everyone else.

Sometimes, too, I "fall" for my students' excuses and let them turn things in late or "forget" to take the late points off because I can't stand the confrontation with the parent that will undoubtedly ensue. I mean, confrontation almost causes me physical pain and I cry when I get angry and I never EVER want to cry in front of parents.

But this is no good. I just had my eval today and I need to work on this.

Does anyone have any advice? Doesn't have to be from teachers - anyone who has advice for an ENFP on how to become more firm and consistent.

Thanks.

 

[Laurie]

Pick what lines you won't cross, put them down in writing and don't cross them. Decide what you want to be lenient on and let yourself cross those lines. You can include the "do not cross" lines in your beginning of the year info so you can't get away with bending on it.

If you don't want to use late points dont use them. Do you HAVE to have tough standards?

 

[CuriousFeeling]

Evaluate what are the important values to you for your classroom and stick with them in your classroom rules. Emphasize these core values to your students and make sure that they adhere to them. If they do not, then explain to them the consequences of their actions and how it applies to their everyday lives.

You don't have to be strict, but be firm.

 

[Immaculate Cloud]

Repeat after me: I am their teacher not their best friend/mum/grannie. LOL

 

[Running in the Meadow]

I'm a former teacher and still an ENFP . I'm now a homeschool mom and a private tutor (sigh, of relief). Teaching was stressful for me. I was high school math.

As far as academics, we had multiple teachers teaching the same thing, so it wasn't my choice. I just followed the lady who had taught the subject for 30 years (which allowed me to ignore much of our horrid textbook!) But as far as discipline type stuff, Love and logic teachings saved me. As your administration or counselors if they have any of their materials (books, CD, DVD's) or if they will get some. OR check your public library. I was able to get a set of DVD's (worth over $100) through interlibrary loan.

It's discipline without yelling or threats, but with a firmness that helps you keep your self-respect and give boundaries.

If I'd stuck around longer, I probably would have liked it more. I didn't get things figured out till my 3rd and last year--then I had a newborn.

How long have you taught? What subject?

 

[garbage]

Sometimes, too, I "fall" for my students' excuses and let them turn things in late or "forget" to take the late points off because I can't stand the confrontation with the parent that will undoubtedly ensue.

Allow the confrontations to happen and realize that they're not so bad. .. and realize that these sorts of confrontations might not happen anyway.

Habits and new behaviors just take practice.

Me? I dunno, a structured-but-not-too-rigid syllabus seems to work. I don't end up having sympathy for the students who don't care. It kind of sucks, but I had to lose that sympathy in order to stay sane.

I just had my eval today and I need to work on this.

Concentrate on this, rather than on what you think that the parents might do. You kind of owe it to yourself to be the best and most effective teacher that you can be.

 

[FalseHeartDothKnow]

As CuriousFeeling said, try to be calm but assertive. Only you can decide how much lenience is appropriate in certain situations, but whatever you decide, try to be consistent. As suggested, setting the boundaries before the students arrive might help you, and gently, (hence not being the 'meanie,') reminding them that if they misbehave, there will be consequences.
At no time do you have to shout or become overly confrontational, but the key would be to follow through on everything that you say you'll do, for both rewards and reproaches, consider why the rules you enforce are necessary, and then at least if confrontations should arise, you can calmly and thoroughly explain your standpoint whilst listening politely to parents' concerns. You can still be a relaxed, well-liked and lovely teacher, but students have to know that they cannot push you too far, and many parents will eventually come respect your 'kind but firm' approach. Good luck

Kind Regards
FalseHeartDothKnow

 

[Avocado]

As CuriousFeeling said, try to be calm but assertive. Only you can decide how much lenience is appropriate in certain situations, but whatever you decide, try to be consistent. As suggested, setting the boundaries before the students arrive might help you, and gently, (hence not being the 'meanie,') reminding them that if they misbehave, there will be consequences.
At no time do you have to shout or become overly confrontational, but the key would be to follow through on everything that you say you'll do, for both rewards and reproaches, consider why the rules you enforce are necessary, and then at least if confrontations should arise, you can calmly and thoroughly explain your standpoint whilst listening politely to parents' concerns. You can still be a relaxed, well-liked and lovely teacher, but students have to know that they cannot push you too far, and many parents will eventually come respect your 'kind but firm' approach. Good luck

Kind Regards
FalseHeartDothKnow

That settles it…
I'll pursue teaching at the secondary level…

 

[Betty Blue]

Sorry i'm no good at playing the responsible role which doles out rules etc. I once was a restaurant manager (which i did not elect to be, i applied for waitress...another story though). I had the responsibility of making sure all my (haha, ick) staff had the correct unifrom on and had to tell one person to go home to change their shoes. ... it pained me. I did have a meeting with the area manager who said i had to more consistant and not be afraid of asking people to do things. It's just not my forte. I also did the hiring and firing. I said the most innapropriate thing to someone whilst firing them and they burst into tears.... then i burst into tears and we had a big hug. Thats how rubbish i am at being boss.

 

[Avocado]

Sorry i'm no good at playing the responsible role which doles out rules etc. I once was a restaurant manager (which i did not elect to be, i applied for waitress...another story though). I had the responsibility of making sure all my (haha, ick) staff had the correct unifrom on and had to tell one person to go home to change their shoes. ... it pained me. I did have a meeting with the area manager who said i had to more consistant and not be afraid of asking people to do things. It's just not my forte. I also did the hiring and firing. I said the most innapropriate thing to someone whilst firing them and they burst into tears.... then i burst into tears and we had a big hug. Thats how rubbish i am at being boss.

If I feel I'm doing the right thing, and I feel good doing it…
I could ask in a cool, polite, level-headed manner for somebody to do something. I usually have doubt about rather or not I want something, though, so I tend to faulter.

 

[unicorncandy]

I, of course, have no problem getting kids excited, coming up with cool projects to do, etc. etc.

My biggest problem is when I have to be "the meanie." I find it so difficult to be tough enough and maintain tough standards all year (I teach High School). It's not that I want to be liked. It's more that I can see all the possibilities and permutations and have trouble deciding that the standard I've set is indeed the final standard. I might allow a kid to change the requirements for a project mid-project if it seems like what s/he wants to do would be really cool! But that messes up my consistency with everyone else.

Sometimes, too, I "fall" for my students' excuses and let them turn things in late or "forget" to take the late points off because I can't stand the confrontation with the parent that will undoubtedly ensue. I mean, confrontation almost causes me physical pain and I cry when I get angry and I never EVER want to cry in front of parents.

But this is no good. I just had my eval today and I need to work on this.

Does anyone have any advice? Doesn't have to be from teachers - anyone who has advice for an ENFP on how to become more firm and consistent.

Thanks.

Set a discipline framework up. It is important for kids to know exactly what you expect from them. Make a list of things you expect and things you won't tolerate and pass it out the first day of class. Of course kids are going to challenge that, so make the first that do an example in front of the class of what not to do. That'll show em. Otherwise, be your awesome self! I had an ENFP professor in college and I was his favorite student. Some kids were afraid of him because he had a really strict discipline/grading system set up that he stuck to (I'm assuming he just had to learn how to be a meanie) but everyone loved him! Just be you and don't let the kids boss you around.

 

[baccheion]

You have to figure out what your values are, and give words to the internal system you are using to grade everyone. You have to wrap your mind around the general principle and the exceptions you allow to see what they are really driving at. If you are cool with more flexibility, then that's fine. Simply let that come across in the rules you set out.

"You need to turn the assignment in on Monday by midnight. For every day that it's late you'll lose 5 points." Done. If they send it in at 12:01am, then that's 5 points. I only say that because the flexibility would have been built in to the original deadline, and with the tapering off of the grades when handed in late. But this quickly becomes a game, because if you allow something that's just a little bit late to slide, then you'll win points with the students, but it will also reinforce their behavior, and they'll start pushing it to see how late they can hand assignments in without losing points. So design some rules that capture what you believe, but leave a little bit of flexibility in there (to win over the students) but not so much that they'll start trying to game the system.

There is nothing wrong with being flexible! I wish more teachers were, and I would have probably done better had my school experience not been idiot teachers trying to impose some shit on me, or trying to force or trick me into becoming this other person, or trying to force that "spark" then taking credit for all of it, robbing me of the essence of what drives me (independently doing great things). Don't make it look like I'm doing all of it, don't hand hold me while I'm doing it, back off, so I can do it myself. I don't need your BS. Fuck these terrible teachers ruining a student's experience. They are good at working the administration and looking the part, but they aren't really good at their jobs. I think you should keep that in mind.

I wish I had more ENFP teachers. Or perceivers, period. I think I had zero, maybe one.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I, of course, have no problem getting kids excited, coming up with cool projects to do, etc. etc.

My biggest problem is when I have to be "the meanie." I find it so difficult to be tough enough and maintain tough standards all year (I teach High School). It's not that I want to be liked. It's more that I can see all the possibilities and permutations and have trouble deciding that the standard I've set is indeed the final standard. I might allow a kid to change the requirements for a project mid-project if it seems like what s/he wants to do would be really cool! But that messes up my consistency with everyone else.

Sometimes, too, I "fall" for my students' excuses and let them turn things in late or "forget" to take the late points off because I can't stand the confrontation with the parent that will undoubtedly ensue. I mean, confrontation almost causes me physical pain and I cry when I get angry and I never EVER want to cry in front of parents.

But this is no good. I just had my eval today and I need to work on this.

Does anyone have any advice? Doesn't have to be from teachers - anyone who has advice for an ENFP on how to become more firm and consistent.

Thanks.

This is actually kinda surreal, but this is exactly how I am as a teacher. The main reason I tend to maintain rules is to just not get in trouble with superiors. I don't see the actual reason for any of it. I take it one step further - I don't ever read my evaluations. I know that I'm evil. I often feel evil about all this.

 

[Avocado]

This is actually kinda surreal, but this is exactly how I am as a teacher. The main reason I tend to maintain rules is to just not get in trouble with superiors. I don't see the actual reason for any of it. I take it one step further - I don't ever read my evaluations. I know that I'm evil. I often feel evil about all this.

Is it being strict or being a fun teacher?

I'm going for certification in literature or history since I can come up with more activities. If my kids are having fun, I'm having fun…

 

[INTP]

This is a pretty damn old topic

 

[Riva]

^ Yes it is. Goes to show that one cannot expect a bunch of ENFPs to notice the date of the OP.

I'm just surprised the INFJ missed it.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Is it being strict or being a fun teacher?

I'm going for certification in literature or history since I can come up with more activities. If my kids are having fun, I'm having fun…

I know some people can be strict and fun. I'm not even sure my personality is especially "fun", but I create tons of fun materials and activities. I think ENFPs are more fun and dynamic in person than I am, and I might be more organized on average than some ENFPs. Im just not rule oriented. I teach online and anytime students hand in assignments late their reasons are typically quite compelling which can include terrible illness and ER visits. Sometimes it is true, but a friend of mine recently told me than when she was young she used to make up the most dramatic excuses when she would lie. I've just come to figure that if the student was just being lazy in the first place, it is unlikely they will complete the assignment later, and if there was a real issue, then they will probably get it in. I just accept all excuses. I have due dates, but I don't enforce them all that strongly. When I taught in a regular classroom, students would bring their suppers to class, and it just didn't bother me. I'm not socially controlling. I like to teach one-on-one so I don't have to deal with students bothering each other. I do sometimes feel like I'm too laid back socially, but my materials and curriculum designs are top notch.

^ Yes it is. Goes to show that one cannot expect a bunch of ENFPs to notice the date of the OP.

I'm just surprised the INFJ missed it.

I did see the date, but I just didn't care. [sinister laughter]

 

[Riva]

I did see the date, but I just didn't care. [sinister laughter]

You are soooooo evil.

Also I like your current avatar.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

You are soooooo evil.

Also I like your current avatar.

Thanks. This is actually similar to the topic - I just figure if people want to talk about it again, what difference does it make if it's an old thread.

A lot of education feels to me like building an irrigation system to make sure the water is distributed where the intention is directed. I approach each person like a river carving a path. By looking deeply into a person you can see how they think and learn, and by allowing them freedom in the process, the teacher learns how better to teach that individual. I've had teachers that sculpt me like an intricate flower garden, and it is a beautiful and relevant way to teach, but I'm drawn powerfully to scattering wildflower seeds amongst students and watching where they spring up. I feel like the path of least resistance maximizes effort put into the process. Some people are confused by my approach, and more often than not they value the strict and structured as being superior. I do get some amazing results from some students.

 

[five sounds]

I work as a speech therapist, and I work with students of all ages (preschool-12th grade). First of all, I only see my students for 30 minutes at a time in groups of two, so I know it's WAY different from being a teacher. I'm a very strong P, and HATE the discipline part of the job. Fortunately, I find that it's more necessary for the younger kids (I'm working on it. I do a sticker chart to reward good behavior throughout the session, and definitely am WAY too flexible and inconsistent with my stickers and prizes). The high schoolers I see are getting 'disciplined' all day long by dozens of authority figures in the school. I find that some adults treat them no different from elementary students, which is offensive and disrespectful. I try to treat the older kids like I'd treat a good friend or family member I'm trying to help. Talk to them like a person, get real about irresponsible behavior that will hurt them, and respect their interests, need to socialize, and ability to think as an individual. That has led, in a few cases, to students trying to push their boundaries, but I just let them know when they've crossed them, and since they feel a sense of mutual respect, they listen.

As far as rules that are school mandates that seem trivial (i.e. shirt completely tucked in), I adhere to them because that's a rule for me too. I let the kids know that as well. I don't openly agree when they say it's a stupid rule, but I will say that that's not a rule I came up with, but both them and I can get in trouble if we don't follow it.

One final thought, I agree with the people who have said that more understanding teachers are needed! When I think about my youth as a young, excited ENFP, I was often hurt by authority figures blindly enforcing harsh rules without explanation. I wanted to do well, and also wanted to socialize and explore. Anyone who can appreciate that and respectfully guide a teen through that part of his or her life is doing them a great favor, and is probably influencing them way more than the authoritarians.