[INFJ] Men versus Women INFJs

[Esoteric Wench]

I’ve noticed a profound difference in how the INFJ type plays out in men versus women. And it is my observation that this gender difference is more profound than in any other type.

I want to know if anyone else has observed this. If so, what have you seen? Do you have any theories on why there are such strong gender differences in this type?

Let me begin by noting a couple of things I’ve noticed:

INFJ-ness just seems to work better for women. Or at least works better for our culture’s ideals about who men and women should be. I’ve observed a plethora of male INFJ strategies to overcome such obstacles. Some adaptive (read healthy). Some not.

In general – and let me repeat that I am making a gross generalization here – INFJ men seem to have more maladaptive behaviors than their female counterparts.

In addition to the foibles all unhealthy INFJs share (regardless of gender) there seem to be some male-specific unhealthy INFJ issues. Here’s a couple that I’ve personally observed:

• Confusing being very, very J (i.e., rigid to the point of unhealthiness) as being the same as being a strong male.
• Overcompensating for feeling weak by expressing his ESTP shadow, including being a barfly, a womanizer, and an all around arrogant jerk. (Most unattractive, btw.)

I don’t mean to imply that being a male INFJ is always a bad thing. Nor, am I saying that all male INFJs share these problems. And, when INFJ males are healthy, they can be some of the coolest people in the world. I’ve fallen under the spell of more than one.

But neither can I deny my own differing experiences between male and female INFJs. It has been my experience that male INFJs can be maddening in their obstinacy (far more so than their female counterparts). I oscillate between wanting to hug them and wanting to whack ‘em in the back of the head.

Please discuss!

 

[Billy]

I’ve noticed a profound difference in how the INFJ type plays out in men versus women. And it is my observation that this gender difference is more profound than in any other type.

I want to know if anyone else has observed this. If so, what have you seen? Do you have any theories on why there are such strong gender differences in this type?

Let me begin by noting a couple of things I’ve noticed:

INFJ-ness just seems to work better for women. Or at least works better for our culture’s ideals about who men and women should be. I’ve observed a plethora of male INFJ strategies to overcome such obstacles. Some adaptive (read healthy). Some not.

In general – and let me repeat that I am making a gross generalization here – INFJ men seem to have more maladaptive behaviors than their female counterparts.

In addition to the foibles all unhealthy INFJs share (regardless of gender) there seem to be some male-specific unhealthy INFJ issues. Here’s a couple that I’ve personally observed:

• Confusing being very, very J (i.e., rigid to the point of unhealthiness) as being the same as being a strong male.
• Overcompensating for feeling weak by expressing his ESTP shadow, including being a barfly, a womanizer, and an all around arrogant jerk. (Most unattractive, btw.)

I don’t mean to imply that being a male INFJ is always a bad thing. Nor, am I saying that all male INFJs share these problems. And, when INFJ males are healthy, they can be some of the coolest people in the world. I’ve fallen under the spell of more than one.

But neither can I deny my own differing experiences between male and female INFJs. It has been my experience that male INFJs can be maddening in their obstinacy (far more so than their female counterparts). I oscillate between wanting to hug them and wanting to whack ‘em in the back of the head.

Please discuss!

I think you are right on, I have to go out of the way in order not to appear weak willed or meek, and I did have a large not good womanizer period just because I was so insecure in my own self.

 

[Requeim]

I agree with alot of the things you say

I should be prime candidate for the ESTP shadow behaviour you speak off, but i seem to have avoided it due to suffering from extreme social anxiety. A blessing in disguise i guess, as i hate ESTP's more than everything

I do feel like at times, that my personality would suit a girl/woman better, at least in the eyes of society, and regarding getting accepted by my peers, but i'm not changing for anyone. When i was younger i always tried to please everyone, and adopted chameleon-like social skills, which doesn't work in the long run. This has led to me becoming a bit alienated, but there has to be some people out there, who would accept me as a friend/boyfriend and for what i am.

that was messy and confusing, i should stop before it becomes totally incomprehensible, lol

 

[EcK]

FIGHT!

 

[sculpting]

This boy INFJ thing-yes I have seen this as well.

 

[EcK]

I've had an Eve vs Satan duel, Satan won
Figures

Free Online Game - Bible Fight from Adult Swim

 

[Requeim]

I've had an Eve vs Satan duel, Satan won
Figures

Free Online Game - Bible Fight from Adult Swim

are you sure you haven't entered the wrong thread?

 

[21%]

Well, F guys (and especially introverts) have it harder than T guys and F girls, because their personality doesn't quite fit the general male stereotype.

As for INFJ males, maybe growing up their secondary Fe was not fully encouraged, leading them to lean on their tertiary Ti instead and creating a Ni-Ti loop that isn't entirely healthy. I know I had the same problem until I finally discovered my missing Fe and learned to unleash it upon the world

Just a thought -- what exactly does the Ni-Ti loop look like? I think it might explain the rigidity / lack of compassion / bitterness, etc. in INFJs.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

Well, F guys (and especially introverts) have it harder than T guys and F girls, because their personality doesn't quite fit the general male stereotype.

As for INFJ males, maybe growing up their secondary Fe was not fully encouraged, leading them to lean on their tertiary Ti instead and creating a Ni-Ti loop that isn't entirely healthy. I know I had the same problem until I finally discovered my missing Fe and learned to unleash it upon the world

Just a thought -- what exactly does the Ni-Ti loop look like? I think it might explain the rigidity / lack of compassion / bitterness, etc. in INFJs.

21%, I love what you wrote. This is exactly the kind of insight I am looking for. What does the Ni-Ti loop look like? I would love to hear more about this.

 

[MrRandom]

I certainly don't love that. Lack of compassion in INFJs? Seriously? I've never heard that one before.

But on the topic itself, in one type description it was said that INFJ is the most unmasculine type and that's why many INFJ men compensate by becoming more stubborn. I can believe that. It might also surface as obsessive-compulsive behavior (something I've noticed in myself). I think you might have a point with that shadow thing, too.

However, I can't get past your starting post. It feels extremely biased, as if seeking an outlet or justification for anger caused by some INFJ guy(s) in your life. Being an INFJ male is never a bad thing, just like being any other type and/or gender combination of thereof isn't. Their bad qualities are not at all worse than anyone else's. They're just different. And because INFJ men have more feminine personalities, they adapt to become slightly more masculine to fit better into our culture. I consider that adaptive, not maladaptive.

And being an all-around arrogant jerk has nothing to do with type. That doesn't even mean anything: It's a collection of all the negative things people believe such a person would do.

 

[Esoteric Wench]

I can't get past your starting post. It feels extremely biased, as if seeking an outlet or justification for anger caused by some INFJ guy(s) in your life.

Mr. Random, I have considered what you said and re-read my OP. I am forced to disagree with your conclusions.

I fully acknowledge that my observation was based solely on my anecdotal experiences and not empirical research. I also freely admit that I was speaking in gross generalizations and that obviously there are many subtleties that could not be covered in the brief post necessitated by this online venue. In other words, I never pretended that my OP was anything other than a personal observation about the INFJ men I've encountered. Part of why I posted my observations was to see if anyone else had noticed the same thing. I was seeking more information, not drawing a conclusion.

I do not carry around anger about the INFJ men in my life. I am actually quite fond of all the INFJ males in my acquaintance... even the ones that occasionally need a little head whackin'.

I love to observe people and learn from watching their behavior. For a couple of years now (ever since I began delving into MBTI once again) I've noticed some major "issues" going on with the otherwise super cool INFJ men I know. I wasn't looking to reach this conclusion. It has smacked me over the head several times.

And being an all-around arrogant jerk has nothing to do with type. That doesn't even mean anything: It's a collection of all the negative things people believe such a person would do.

Being arrogant can happen to anyone of any type. You are correct. But that doesn't mean that some types aren't more prone to arrogance than others. (Ever talked to an unhealthy INTJ. I rest my case.) Most INFJs I know aren't arrogant. But several male INFJs I know are arrogant in certain areas. They just know they are right about certain things and aren't afraid of telling you about the correctness of their opinion... and they do this to a weird, unhealthy, indicative-to-me-that-they're-afraid-of-being-weak kind of extreme way. In other words, because they feel weak or are afraid of being perceived as weak, they are overcompensating. Or at least that's my read on it.

But hell, what type doesn't have their weak points. I'm an ENFP. I'm late on a regular basis, have a sporadic attention to detail, and sometimes don't follow through on stuff. Let me be the first to hold up my hand and call myself an idiot.

We're all idiots really. That's the great thing about MBTI. We can see the boxes we're (and others) are stuck in that we didn't even know were there.

- Esoteric Wench

"We've all got the inner knucklehead. It's good fodder for stories." - Joel Coen

 

[Billy]

I certainly don't love that. Lack of compassion in INFJs? Seriously? I've never heard that one before.

But on the topic itself, in one type description it was said that INFJ is the most unmasculine type and that's why many INFJ men compensate by becoming more stubborn. I can believe that. It might also surface as obsessive-compulsive behavior (something I've noticed in myself). I think you might have a point with that shadow thing, too.

However, I can't get past your starting post. It feels extremely biased, as if seeking an outlet or justification for anger caused by some INFJ guy(s) in your life. Being an INFJ male is never a bad thing, just like being any other type and/or gender combination of thereof isn't. Their bad qualities are not at all worse than anyone else's. They're just different. And because INFJ men have more feminine personalities, they adapt to become slightly more masculine to fit better into our culture. I consider that adaptive, not maladaptive.

And being an all-around arrogant jerk has nothing to do with type. That doesn't even mean anything: It's a collection of all the negative things people believe such a person would do.

Some of us cope with our lack of masculinity with drugs and posturing tho lol!

Its true however, I always knew I was deeply in touch with my female side internally. I always liked feelings and romance and all that sensitive stuff that maakes most dudes cringe, I consume that awkward butterfly feeling like an energy pack ha!

 

[The Curator]

The difference between Male and Female INFJs that I have noticed is that Males are much more forward but not so much that you could even call it forward. A better way to express it is that female INFJs are much more subtle in their ways. I really feel it comes from the men who don't fit into what is the expected "Manly role" of American society specifically that they develop a much more stronger stance in their INFJs specifically their Fe well, I can't speak for all but I feel that is what has happened to me. I am much more expressive in my own ways with my Fe and caring in general.

Even further into it, I have some friends who have had terrible run ins with "bad" male INFJs. I think it has a lot to do with so many possibilities of not developing in a good light, becoming bitter, jaded and losing hope in humanity things like that.

 

[Rainne]

I have never seen my INFJ friend get angry. Except when he's had a few drinks then he starts cursing and challenging people to fights.

 

[sLiPpY]

Sometimes I'd say something to get my INFJ friend riled up, soz I could watch him do this: :steam:

 

[Rainne]

Sometimes I'd say something to get my INFJ friend riled up, soz I could watch him do this: :steam:

it's funny to watch them rage

they don't show it but you know they're angry

 

[sLiPpY]

it's funny to watch them rage

they don't show it but you know they're angry

That's the best part.

 

[21%]

Being arrogant can happen to anyone of any type. You are correct. But that doesn't mean that some types aren't more prone to arrogance than others. (Ever talked to an unhealthy INTJ. I rest my case.) Most INFJs I know aren't arrogant. But several male INFJs I know are arrogant in certain areas. They just know they are right about certain things and aren't afraid of telling you about the correctness of their opinion... and they do this to a weird, unhealthy, indicative-to-me-that-they're-afraid-of-being-weak kind of extreme way. In other words, because they feel weak or are afraid of being perceived as weak, they are overcompensating. Or at least that's my read on it.

Yes, that's where I was trying to get at with my "lack of compassion" statement. Maybe I should have edited my previous post to say "lack of compassion in unhealthy INFJs". A lot of INFJs try to be strong, and they think that by bypassing their Fe they will be able to achieve that. I used to do that a lot and it only made me pessimistic and cynical. Only when I learned to rely more on my Fe and stop perceiving it as a weakness that I became more balanced (and a lot happier)

 

[MrRandom]

Mr. Random, I have considered what you said and re-read my OP. I am forced to disagree with your conclusions.

Okay, if you say so. I'm sorry for suggesting otherwise.

 

[the state i am in]

female infjs often seem less socially oblivious and more tactful than males.

sx infj males are somewhat brooding.

Ni-Ti is real, especially bad for e5s. lack of Fe extroversion creates this external pressure pushing down on you. Fe builds up your extroverted skill, so you develop more control, composure, and confidence in your assertion. you figure out how to make it work for you. without it, you're fucked.

male discourse is more damaging to ifj males than ifp males. there's a sense of grounded, inner strength in Fi males that ifj aux Fe males don't have. efj males are more confident in their assertions, they have all their interaction styles and demographics worked out, so they feel secure in their ability to meet the right tone at the right moment and perform accordingly. ifj males don't really have that. plus they have more of an inward grounding than efj males, and especially in Ni-Ti mode, the world can look pretty fucking ugly. the way males relate to each other, especially in S groups, still mostly disgusts me. i don't have the callous insulation that ifp males can develop, protecting their own core of Fi. i am either open and extroverted (which means flexible, really LISTENING to everything around me and imagining what is being said, what people really mean, what preconceptions they really have, etc (which can be hugely disappointing, disillusioning, dehumanizing, and depressing for infj ideals--bc you naturally see so many negative perspectives and you can't keep them all out, they get to be overhwelming), and not judge them. constantly revising your ideals to fit what is around you, while wanting the world to be better than it is (and spending so much time imagining what that could be).

(ifp males feel a threat of alienation in a different way than infjs, but it's rarely as counterposed to male discourse. they are more focused on the possibiltiies for Fi independence and threats from them, whereas we are focused, emotionally, on what is around us, the mood and tenor and ethical value of it for the group)

infj males have a difficult path (to create a healthy system for themselves), but the ones who find their way can become great leaders. what are seen as weaknesses can become strengths. i think infj males also put more pressure on themselves to go out into the world and make something of themselves, the kind of masculine yang ambitious vs yin, a kind of assertion breadwinner mentality, which causes conflict when it doesn't match their skills and what makes them happy, feel fulfilled, meaningfully engaged, etc. we as a society probably need more infj stay-at-home dads.

esoteric wench, are you a 7w8 or an 8w7? you remind me of a friend of mine. she's an sx/so--you both have the same kind of pushiness (and don't take that as an insult because it's not). we always joke about which one of us is going to MAKE the other one listen to us. no me, me, me! (bc i'm the same way at heart)