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[INFJ] Men versus Women INFJs

Esoteric Wench

Professional Trickster
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
945
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ENFP
Enneagram
7w8
Ni-Ti is real, especially bad for e5s. lack of Fe extroversion creates this external pressure pushing down on you. Fe builds up your extroverted skill, so you develop more control, composure, and confidence in your assertion. you figure out how to make it work for you. without it, you're fucked.

esoteric wench, are you a 7w8 or an 8w7? you remind me of a friend of mine. she's an sx/so--you both have the same kind of pushiness (and don't take that as an insult because it's not). we always joke about which one of us is going to MAKE the other one listen to us. no me, me, me! :D (bc i'm the same way at heart)

Wow! This is an awesome post. (Even the parts I don't yet fully understand.) :yes:

Oh the state i am in, you have seduced me into finally reading up on the Enneagram which is something really given my somewhat slothful nature. So I'll let you know if I'm 7w8 or an 8w7 shortly. And, I'll better understand some of the finer points in what you posted here. Back soon. :smile:
 
Last edited:

Esoteric Wench

Professional Trickster
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
945
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ENFP
Enneagram
7w8
I am an 7w8. <-- In response to The State I am In's question. (I was also very, very strong in 3.)
 

21%

You have a choice!
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
3,224
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
female infjs often seem less socially oblivious and more tactful than males.

sx infj males are somewhat brooding.

Ni-Ti is real, especially bad for e5s. lack of Fe extroversion creates this external pressure pushing down on you. Fe builds up your extroverted skill, so you develop more control, composure, and confidence in your assertion. you figure out how to make it work for you. without it, you're fucked.

male discourse is more damaging to ifj males than ifp males. there's a sense of grounded, inner strength in Fi males that ifj aux Fe males don't have. efj males are more confident in their assertions, they have all their interaction styles and demographics worked out, so they feel secure in their ability to meet the right tone at the right moment and perform accordingly. ifj males don't really have that. plus they have more of an inward grounding than efj males, and especially in Ni-Ti mode, the world can look pretty fucking ugly. the way males relate to each other, especially in S groups, still mostly disgusts me. i don't have the callous insulation that ifp males can develop, protecting their own core of Fi. i am either open and extroverted (which means flexible, really LISTENING to everything around me and imagining what is being said, what people really mean, what preconceptions they really have, etc (which can be hugely disappointing, disillusioning, dehumanizing, and depressing for infj ideals--bc you naturally see so many negative perspectives and you can't keep them all out, they get to be overhwelming), and not judge them. constantly revising your ideals to fit what is around you, while wanting the world to be better than it is (and spending so much time imagining what that could be).

(ifp males feel a threat of alienation in a different way than infjs, but it's rarely as counterposed to male discourse. they are more focused on the possibiltiies for Fi independence and threats from them, whereas we are focused, emotionally, on what is around us, the mood and tenor and ethical value of it for the group)

infj males have a difficult path (to create a healthy system for themselves), but the ones who find their way can become great leaders. what are seen as weaknesses can become strengths. i think infj males also put more pressure on themselves to go out into the world and make something of themselves, the kind of masculine yang ambitious vs yin, a kind of assertion breadwinner mentality, which causes conflict when it doesn't match their skills and what makes them happy, feel fulfilled, meaningfully engaged, etc. we as a society probably need more infj stay-at-home dads.

State, this is really, really interesting. I wish more male INFJs (or at least people who know male INFJs in real life) would join in more!
 

Ratsimoan

New member
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
289
MBTI Type
enfp
Enneagram
4w5
I believe my friend is an unhealthy infj. i don't pay enough attention to infj's behavior like esoteric wench . but i can tell a healthy infj from unhealthy infj. I lose hope in romance, when i see an unhealthy infj. i just wish the world could just accept you guys as you are. there's nothing unmasculine about you guys, you guys are beautiful. in my opinion a guy who shows his feeling is masculine. it melts my heart when you guys express your feelings.
 

revolve

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Jan 13, 2009
Messages
243
my SO is a male infj . . . and i just wanted to let "the state i am in" know that his dream in life is pretty much to be a stay at home dad. ha ha! i'm serious though. my boyfriend has gone through some hard hard hard times - drug addiction & now he is battling alcoholism. i am still in the process of getting to know his depths but i really truly think that these substances were used as a coping mechanism in dealing with his sensitivity. it breaks my heart to think that if he were born in a different time & place he probably would have never needed substances to help him to deal with being "different". damn americans & our valueless values.
 

Esoteric Wench

Professional Trickster
Joined
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945
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7w8
I believe my friend is an unhealthy infj. i don't pay enough attention to infj's behavior like esoteric wench . but i can tell a healthy infj from unhealthy infj. I lose hope in romance, when i see an unhealthy infj. i just wish the world could just accept you guys as you are. there's nothing unmasculine about you guys, you guys are beautiful. in my opinion a guy who shows his feeling is masculine. it melts my heart when you guys express your feelings.

Hear, hear Ratsimoan. When the INFJ males I know express their Fe. Oh. My. Goodness. I turn into a bunt-cake-shaped pile of jello. This is how more men should be. And our culture... with its one-dimensional-ESTJ-lauding male stereotypes... can go screw itself.

The feeling of attraction / respect / connection I have for such men can be so strong that sometimes my normal charming and lively self becomes befuddled and socially off my game in their presence. The experience is akin to that of my dog who when she gets too excited by the intensity of our play will hide under the bed chewing on an old bone because she just can't take the intensity of her feelings.

And like Ratsimoan, my heart hurts for the INFJ men I've known who've had a rough time sorting out how to be true to who they are and yet survive in a culture that teaches them to be as un-INFJ as possible. Even the ones that need a good kick in the *ss are still (in their own way) some of the coolest guys I've ever met. :hug:

<Sigh.>
 

The Curator

New member
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
7
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INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
It is heart warming seeing the above comments towards INFJ males. It puts a smile on my face, it really does, I for one thank you. I know it doesn't relate to the thread topic but thank you, truly, you put a smile on this INFJ's face.
 

quietmusician

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Nov 29, 2008
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320
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INFJ
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4
This thread has been interesting to read. And I'm glad that we INFJ males have fans. I don't know what to add to this topic, but from what I've read everything has been pretty much spot on. The challenges we face can be soul crushing at times, but enlightening as well. I really do attempt to fit into an unhealthy ESTP suit sometimes. I think I can tell my Fe isn't really strong. Certain expected social behaviors tend to go over my head. But all around I'm still trying to find my place as well as some peace of mind.
 

Ratsimoan

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Mar 25, 2010
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enfp
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4w5
Hear, hear Ratsimoan. When the INFJ males I know express their Fe. Oh. My. Goodness. I turn into a bunt-cake-shaped pile of jello. This is how more men should be. And our culture... with its one-dimensional-ESTJ-lauding male stereotypes... can go screw itself.

The feeling of attraction / respect / connection I have for such men can be so strong that sometimes my normal charming and lively self becomes befuddled and socially off my game in their presence. The experience is akin to that of my dog who when she gets too excited by the intensity of our play will hide under the bed chewing on an old bone because she just can't take the intensity of her feelings.

And like Ratsimoan, my heart hurts for the INFJ men I've known who've had a rough time sorting out how to be true to who they are and yet survive in a culture that teaches them to be as un-INFJ as possible. Even the ones that need a good kick in the *ss are still (in their own way) some of the coolest guys I've ever met. :hug:

<Sigh.>

I'm glad you feel the same. I truly believe they are beautiful men. :hug::hug: They literally can change things like Nelson Mandela, who's listed as an infj. There's nothing worst then to see a person be something they are not- infj- shadow self-estp. I don't know what it is, but infj men makes me want to love and take care of them. There's a scene in Doctor Zhivago ( 2002 version), where Lara is bathing Yuri, that's what i want to do the infj. I guess they bring an over nurturing side out of me.
 

Ratsimoan

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4w5
It is heart warming seeing the above comments towards INFJ males. It puts a smile on my face, it really does, I for one thank you. I know it doesn't relate to the thread topic but thank you, truly, you put a smile on this INFJ's face.


I love you guys :hug::hug::hug:. You're just misunderstood. I must admit that sometimes, my infj's friend gets on my nerve, nevertheless, he's still a beautiful person with a lot a lot of potential. I really really would like to date a healthy infj.
 

Esoteric Wench

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I adore my ISTP (aka my Socionics dual) boyfriend. He is undoubtedly and unequivocally awesome. That being said, I sooooo still daydream about finding a healthy and heterosexual INFJ male to connect with. Damn it. I've got better odds being gay. :cry:

OK... this ENFP just bitch-slapped herself. My dual is amazing. I'm soooo lucky to have him. However,without contradicting guidance, I must tell you that I prefer to date INFJs and INTjs. And over 50% of my serious relationships have been with either of these very rare personality types. We just seem to have this effortless communications.

- Esoteric Wench
 

The Curator

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I love you guys :hug::hug::hug:. You're just misunderstood. I must admit that sometimes, my infj's friend gets on my nerve, nevertheless, he's still a beautiful person with a lot a lot of potential. I really really would like to date a healthy infj.

The difference between the healthy and unhealthy INFJs is so large, I had a run in with a very unhealthy female INFJ and it was not a good experience, at all. She was so easily hurt by every single thing and manipulated peoples emotions so much, including mine for a time.
 

Obstinate

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I think ethnicity is also a large factor to consider for male INFJs. I think that, as a black male INFJ, there's a whole other level of societal role instilled within us. Not only are we males, and have to play out the typical gender stereotypes, but black culture generally looks down upon those who are seen as "weak" or "sensitive". I perceive this expection from many people, both black and not. Over the years I've built up a pretty thick T outer shell, only showing my true feelings to those I feel comfortable enough around to, usually ENFJs. But even then, not completely.

I think there needs to be more discourse of MBTI and how it applies to different ethnic backgrounds here.
 

quietmusician

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I think ethnicity is also a large factor to consider for male INFJs. I think that, as a black male INFJ, there's a whole other level of societal role instilled within us. Not only are we males, and have to play out the typical gender stereotypes, but black culture generally looks down upon those who are seen as "weak" or "sensitive". I perceive this expection from many people, both black and not. Over the years I've built up a pretty thick T outer shell, only showing my true feelings to those I feel comfortable enough around to, usually ENFJs. But even then, not completely.

I think there needs to be more discourse of MBTI and how it applies to different ethnic backgrounds here.

Yes, exactly. I'm a black male INFJ and I am highly aware of the fact that (judging from what I see on TV) I "need" to be something I'm not. Luckily, I don't live in an urban area because I would imagine things would be 10x more difficult for me. Growing up was hard and the xSTP coat I'd wear has worn thin as the years went by. Still, the images projected from black culture in the media do not mirror my own. And I can't relate to any of that. So thank you for bringing this up as this is very true.
 

Skyward

Badoom~
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Jul 3, 2008
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infj
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9w1
I find that I idolize or demonize ESTPs fairly quickly, but I know I don't have the energy or mind-structure to do what they do without burning out. I see all their projects and think: 'I could do with some more industry.' I just prefer to think about being industrious rather than BE industrious (but sometimes I start to steamroll at 2 in the morning when I can't sleep)


I've learned about how odd I am compared to the 'normal folks' (I.E. the people who don't seem to go through any identity crisis because it's so easy for them to follow their friends, family, or work). I tend to find the other odd folks (SPs and Ns mostly with a couple of SJs) and make a close knit group of outsiders who could care less about the Crowd. It doesn't mean I can't interact with those people, it just takes effort for me to not alienate them with my odd thinking style. Also I am painfully unaware of many social norms, which helps them think I'm either weird or dumb :D
 

Srho

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Male ENFJs are significantly less "emo" and more confident than male INFJs, though, which is a huge bonus. If only I could develop a shell of extraversion. Anyway, yes, I get frustrated with social norms, which makes my Fe very unhealthy. Also, I am white...
 

Imageshackdiana

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How personal experience with a male INFJ (being female INFJ) I will say my point:
It was my first boyfriend, he was the one who left me
My mother says that it was probably a boy with low self-esteem who was made to believe in his life that his needs were first than those of others due to how they treated him for his disability in school (although I do not agree with the closed position that his father had with respect to religions, since he was the one who sent him to study a religious school, and I accepted him even though he was an atheist)
At first he seemed romantic and I even felt sorry to be his friend when he was trying. In the beginning of the relationship I seemed to be the Ni-Ti loop but I was trying to increase my Fe so that the relationship goes forward (I told him to do it progressively) we reached a point where we entered into a weird Loop Fe-Se for the affection we gave ourselves, then he always made excuses that he had jobs and many reasons to justify that he does not send me even greetings even though I did and I also have occupations (I think at least one greeting is normal to give it)
Well, basically nothing was:
The in the beginning: Fe-Ti
Me: Ti-Fe
After:
He: Ni-Ti
Me: Ni-Fe
I will not say that all the INFJ men are the same, I really thought that the fact that we were similar in some things would help us to improve the relationship. But sadly we can not always believe in fairy tales, sometimes I think it would have been better to reject it when I insisted that I tell him if I love him or not
 

Pionart

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
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4,039
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NiFe
I think our culture tends to associate INFJ with being male, actually. (or maybe it's just my own biases which seem to indicate that)*

As far as how they differ, I would guess that male INFJs are more likely to compensate by overplaying their Ti. I don't know what common female strategies are.

Both types will likely downplay their Ni because society doesn't validate that function.


* to expand on this, it just seems that with well-known musicians and actors, the males are more likely to be INFJ than the females, with females being more likely to use Fi

However that could be 100% due to my selection of media to consume being framed to suit my own personality, thus falsely over-representing male INFJs etc.

...though I think at least with music I actually am right. So many male INFJ rockstars, female xxFP popstars...
 

Norrsken

self murderer
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Nov 27, 2015
Messages
3,633
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ENFJ
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I thought this was some weird fight thread where men have to go into battle against the elusive INFJ female in a game of chicken.
 

Imageshackdiana

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Nov 22, 2018
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I'm not sure, they always say that women tend to be more assertive than men
I do not understand how an FJ can be FP in his healthy state
In fact many times I risk using my Ni no matter what others say and I have no problems for it (or at least I do not care so much)
 
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