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[Fi] Need to Fi

Billy

Crazy Diamond
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When I am with people I feel, i know what they feel, we all feel and flow through each other.

When I am alone its not so easy... I feel but i cant figure out what, or how or why.

Put someone emotional in front of me and I will map out what and why they feel the way they do. And yet I cannot do the same for myself.

I feel like an emotional vampire.

How do you develop Fi? What are some exercises?
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
Think about YOUE OWN personal opinions on things (don't worry if it goes against society's or your friends' opinions). What do you think about abortion? About the death penalty? About the justice system? About religion? If someone makes you mad, think about why they made you mad. What are your fave foods and why? There are millions of other things to think about. Then think about how those things make YOU feel/think personally. Do YOU personally have those opinions or is it what you believe you SHOULD think? This is how I try to develop Fi through a Fe perspective.

EDIT: I apologize that I am really oversimplifying Fi.
 

William K

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Think about YOUE OWN personal opinions on things (don't worry if it goes against society's or your friends' opinions). What do you think about abortion? About the death penalty? About the justice system? About religion? If someone makes you mad, think about why they made you mad. What are your fave foods and why? There are millions of other things to think about. Then think about how those things make YOU feel personally. This is how I try to develop Fi through a Fe perspective.

Good points above. You might also want to try to link some of your smaller personal decisions to some form of "principle of life" you hold dear.

For Example : I'm against the death penalty and I'm also a vegetarian because I respect human and animal life.

Another use of Fi (to me at least) is to figure out what is important and what is not. You might also want to practice differentiating things that you need to Fi and those that you don't. Are there any values/causes you would literally die for to uphold?
 

Billy

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Thats just the thing though. I don't have feelings about those things aside from what I have been told or taught or was raised to believe. But those aren't me. Are those kinds of beliefs thigns you come to know on your own or were they just instilled in you by your parents?

I used to be against abortion, then i got my gf pregnant and she got one against my wishes, we stuck it out a bit longer but it didn't bother me very much. I used to be pro death penalty because I believe in tit for tat, but not really... I dont care either way really.

The feelings I do have when I am on my own and nothing is polluting me with its own feelings are very very weak, they're very vague and hard to pin down. I will sit there and i might feel completely hopeless and sad and want to cry. But I cant explain why. I don't know where its coming from. They creep up on me.

I can give you logical thoughts on all of those subjects based on whats best for all of us or based on what I believe is best for the future, but its not based in emotion.

I am only every truly lucidly emotional when I am in the presence of other people usually.

So if i sit here and try to figure out how I feel about abortion or the justice system, its going to be quite cool hearted and logical.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
Thats just the thing though. I don't have feelings about those things aside from what I have been told or taught or was raised to believe. But those aren't me. Are those kinds of beliefs thigns you come to know on your own or were they just instilled in you by your parents?

I used to be against abortion, then i got my gf pregnant and she got one against my wishes, we stuck it out a bit longer but it didn't bother me very much. I used to be pro death penalty because I believe in tit for tat, but not really... I dont care either way really.

The feelings I do have when I am on my own and nothing is polluting me with its own feelings are very very weak, they're very vague and hard to pin down. I will sit there and i might feel completely hopeless and sad and want to cry. But I cant explain why. I don't know where its coming from. They creep up on me.

I can give you logical thoughts on all of those subjects based on whats best for all of us or based on what I believe is best for the future, but its not based in emotion.

I am only every truly lucidly emotional when I am in the presence of other people usually.

So if i sit here and try to figure out how I feel about abortion or the justice system, its going to be quite cool hearted and logical.


This isn't necessarily bad. Fe is just very situational while Fi is more universal. I bet your real opinions will show up when you come up against sticky situations. For example, your gf got pregnant, had an abortion and you're not against abortion anymore. Being in the middle still means that you have an opinion. Unless you are committing heinous acts towards others or completely unaware about yourself and others, there is no real need to worry about this.
 

sculpting

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This is interesting.

I am like you. I often feel very little in terms of emotion. Alone I can be quite cold and logical.

However when with someone who is need, I feel very deeply.

When I am alone, I am trying to learn to allow myself to have emotions, and then to observe and understand them. As my Fi guru once said, Fi is not feeling-it is a way to analyze feelings and make choices based upon them. Thus first you must feel, then develop Fi to understand those feelings?? I dont know how this last part goes honestly.
 

Billy

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This isn't necessarily bad. Fe is just very situational while Fi is more universal. I bet your real opinions will show up when you come up against sticky situations. For example, your gf got pregnant, had an abortion and you're not against abortion anymore. Being in the middle still means that you have an opinion. Unless you are committing heinous acts towards others or completely unaware about yourself and others, there is no real need to worry about this.

I am not worried per say, so much as I am annoyed by my lack of knowing where I stand on certain things. It seems as if my entire life I have to wait for someone else to decide things before I can latch on and run with it. Even in say relationships, I am very hands off and very you make the 1st move to show the interest so I can see where you stand and then I make my decisions based on that. Its not so bad if the lady I am courting has strong Fi and knows what she wants and if its me, that endears her to me and I then begin to develop feelings for her slowly. However again, this doesn't always mean the feelings will last or were mine. It is almost like I am emotionless at the core and if someone is willing to put feelings into me i am willing to reciprocate and learn them... but when they stop, I stop and I go on my way. No big deal.

The only way I have a Fi moment is if they do something that violates my trust or the loyalty I give them. Cheating etc would explode me instantly so I got that one covered. I do not accept betrayal.

But thats such an extreme thing, and most of that was probably just me watching my father betray my mother and seeing her cry constantly and me vowing never to be the same man. But I needed to run it through her pain before I could set it in stone for myself.

Its annoying.
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
I don't know what to tell you but I sometimes have that same problem too. It could explain my love-hate relationship w/ Fe, lol
 

Billy

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I don't know what to tell you but I sometimes have that same problem too. It could explain my love-hate relationship w/ Fe, lol


I have a love/hate thing with it too... I cant lie and say its bad, my Fe endears me to people. They come to me and open up to me and I listen intently and genuinely feel empathy for them. However... when do I get mine? ya know?

Is there a way to develop those feelings? Thats why i'm trying to find out. People that are Fi dominant, do they come to conclusions on their own or is it learned? I could easily shadow other peoples beliefs and if feelings are just learned behaviors who is to say I cant chose my teacher?
 
G

Glycerine

Guest
I really think you should message Udog or scottNdenver because they are a couple Fi-dom males that have an awesome grasp w/ Fi, are mentally healthy, and are a little older w/ experience. Plus, they seem to have the logical (analytical might be a better word) feeler vibe like you do.
EDIT: I'm not implying Fi dom males aren't mentally sound. :doh:
 

OrangeAppled

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Er, I'll take a stab...

People that are Fi dominant, do they come to conclusions on their own or is it learned? I could easily shadow other peoples beliefs and if feelings are just learned behaviors who is to say I cant chose my teacher?

For me, feelings can be discovered, but they always relate back to some base feeling or principle I hold as true. It's more that I become aware of them in terms that are understandable and so it's not just abstract feeling. I will only adopt an external value that agrees with these basic principles. A violation of these sends an alarm off.

Fi can be like an internal compass at times. My emotional feeling can be very vague in the sense that it's so layered & nuanced it is often not clearly "happy" or "sad", but it's still pointing me in a general direction. However, I still have to map it out to get to the destination or conclusion (sometimes you go the wrong way at first...but you will navigate your emotional terrain with more confidence the more you do it).

This involves reason of course. A significant emotional feeling may remain vague, as often it's so broad it will be a trigger for forming many values (or emotional explorations), but now I will have some clear values defined from it. The more I explore the emotion, the more I will come to understand what I value. Then I consider what the value itself means, how it connects to other values, and in that process, my base principles become clearer, and I can identify them with broad ideas like "peace" and "honesty".

INFPs naturally spend a lot of time reasoning on why they feel something, what it means, and how it relates to themselves. Introspection is the key. It cannot happen overnight. You will probably have to search a lot before finding an answer within. Fi-doms may do it a bit faster because it's very natural to do it, but even we spend much time mulling something over. In all honestly, it's nothing close to this linear and it may occur in images or waves of atmosphere or random phrases popping into your head that represent the feeling behind an emotion, accompanied by a thorough examination and deconstruction of these feelings & emotions. That's why Fi is hard to define.

Try breaking down your Ni insights and reforming them by relating them to yourself. I'd also ask some ISFPs how they feel their dom-Fi works with their tert-Ni.

I think the greenlight wiki exercise below is a decent way to get the ball rolling. "Self-empathy" might be a good way for you to look at it. I think that Fi reasons more than this describes; but before Fi reasons, it identifies what an emotion means, or at least one of its possible meanings. Right now, you need to get to that point before you can form values.


From greenlight wiki:

To experience Introverted Feeling:

- As you come across the action of any mammal engaged in any activity (including humans), say to yourself, "He/she is feeling ______ because he is needing ______" and fill in the blanks. Guess the mammal's emotion as accurately as you can, by paying close attention to every detail of its behavior and trying to imagine what emotion that you might feel if you were that kind of mammal and acting that way. Guess the need by intuiting the inner calling of the animal that is emerging in the way it's responding to its environment, by recalling a similar need of your own. For example, if you see a Scotty dog sniffing around at a new suitcase, you might guess, "He is feeling apprehensive because he has a need to know he's safe." Or you might guess, "He is feeling curious because he has a need to learn all about the world around him." It depends unpredictably on exactly what you really observe. Key is to watch the mammal extremely closely, so your guess emerges spontaneously from empathizing, and not, say, by consciously reasoning on the basis of something you've read. Your guess must come from the fact that you yourself genuinely feel it. It must come from the heart.

- Try the same exercise on yourself at odd moments: self-empathy. Simply monitor how much you like or dislike something, and what in your nature is being fulfilled or frustrated to cause that feeling of like or dislike. Note that attending to your emotion alone is not enough; you must trace the emotion back to a need that is being fulfilled or frustrated. However, if you're having trouble with this, you might try just consciously noting your emotion for a while, as a starter exercise.
 

Southern Kross

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Wow, Fi is tough to explain. I'm going to try to be as generalised as possible. Here is the process:

1.Think of a situation you experienced lately that made you feel uncertain or uneasy.
2. Think about how the situation made you and others feel. How would you feel if you were in each person's place? Consider whether each person's behaviour seems instinctively right or wrong to you.
3. Weigh up the emotional experience felt by each individual involved. Whose feelings seemed more significant or valid? Whose feelings appeared to deserve your support above the others?
4. Take the stance that most deserves your support

And to take the process futher from an INFP perspective (in the FiNeSiTe combination):
5. Try to come up with similar situations you have experienced, read about, or saw in movies etc.
6. Try to imagine how you would feel if you were one of the people in the other examples. Do steps 2 and 3 for the other examples. Ask yourself why certain perspectives felt right or wrong.
7. Find a common thread between the situations. Consider what it is that makes them the same or different. Find an explaination for the differences that fits with the common thread. What seems consistently right or wrong across each situation? (difficult to explain :shock:)
8. Formulate a general value based stance for the issue.

I guess the point isn't to sympathize another person's experience but to imagine you were in their place. Then try to find a way to reconcile that imagined experience with your behaviour.
 

Amargith

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Billy, look at the things you enjoy doing. Pick something you're passionate about that doesn't involve other people, a hobby or something. Now, ask yourself the question why you enjoy it. What feeling does it invoke in you? Why is it pleasurable? What do you gain from that activity?

They're not easy questions, and you will get frustrated figuring them out...but once you figure them out, you're on the way to figuring out how your own emotions work ;)

Consider your own emotions a system within you, much like Ti builds a logical system. And figure out what emotions trigger what (re)action and vice versa in yourself. You'll understand yourself that much better afterwards. And realize this is a gigantic puzzle...there's always room for improvement and new discovery ;)
 

Craft

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Basically, you don't have Fi effectively and will never will at least that's what I think. Just use your Fe or if alone, Ni.
 
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uumlau

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I have a love/hate thing with it too... I cant lie and say its bad, my Fe endears me to people. They come to me and open up to me and I listen intently and genuinely feel empathy for them. However... when do I get mine? ya know?

Is there a way to develop those feelings? Thats why i'm trying to find out. People that are Fi dominant, do they come to conclusions on their own or is it learned? I could easily shadow other peoples beliefs and if feelings are just learned behaviors who is to say I cant chose my teacher?

Actually, part of this is your Fi. When do you get yours, ya know?

You already have a good understanding of F, and I envy your facility with Fe. You know how feelings "work." That's good.

Fi is how feelings "are."

It just is.

Here's some imagery that might help you, with a bit of meditation ...

Imagine a large lake, with streams flowing in and streams flowing out. The lake is very deep. Investigating its depths will take time. The streams are quick and fast and shallow. Sometimes they're dry, sometimes they're flooded. The only rule is that they're changeable.

You are the lake and the streams. Fi is the lake. Fe is the streams.

Your consciousness has been focusing on the streams, not the lake. You take the lake for granted. The streams are active and sparkly, fresh and new. They interest you more. The water from each stream tastes slightly different, you relish those differences. You are even adept and changing the course and flow of the streams, such is your skill and knowledge. But you ignore the lake.

Now, in this meditation, stop ignoring the lake. Let the streams run dry, let the waters run still. Let the lake's water stop churning up obscuring mud.

Imagine the sun shining from above into the lake. Sit and wait. Watch the mud and silt slowly settle to the lake's bottom. Imagine being deep within the lake, slowly getting brighter and brighter as the mud settles, lit by the sunlight from above. Eventually, with time, it becomes very clear. You cannot force the clarity, you can only wait for it to gradually become so. Eventually, you start seeing the fish, the plants, the debris, and everything that has accumulated within that huge, very deep lake of Fi.

Once you have had the patience to sit alone with yourself and let this happen, letting your thoughts and feelings happen, not forcing them, you will gradually come to understand Fi.

When do you get yours? You don't.

You already have it.
 

yvonne

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^ that was an interesting read. i've never thought of it that way, even though i have thought of emotions (Fe?) as something fleeting, but i haven't thought that there could be an underlying "lake" (Fi) there somewhere to be separated...

what is it then? does it consist of your core values, or what?
 

uumlau

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^ that was an interesting read. i've never thought of it that way, even though i have thought of emotions (Fe?) as something fleeting, but i haven't thought that there could be an underlying "lake" (Fi) there somewhere to be separated...

what is it then? does it consist of your core values, or what?

The lake consists of what you find therein.

"Core values" is a very weak description of Fi and how it works. Yes, it serves that role, but Fi is not "just core values" any more than an iPhone is "just a music player."

Overall, I find the lake/streams imagery to be very useful. Fi has a bad reaction to "polluted Fe streams" coming in and diminishing the purity of the lake. Fi is rather internalized and hard to fathom, but when it is expressed (in an almost extroverted way) it can be overwhelming, as if there were a dam holding it all in, and it just burst.

A key part of the image is that everyone has both the streams and the lake, where the streams connect to others and the lake is one's own reservoir. The difference between Fe and Fi is that Fe is aware of the streams, but can be largely unaware of the lake, while Fi is preoccupied with the lake, not quite realizing how the turmoil or placidity of the lake is affecting the streams.

I should mention that the image is not intended to imply that Fe is somehow "more shallow" that Fi in a crass, derogatory way, but rather to highlight how each style flows.
 

yvonne

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are the streams other people's emotions and the lake your own?
 

uumlau

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are the streams other people's emotions and the lake your own?

That's getting too specific. The streams are the Fe connections to others, but they aren't other's emotions, or even your emotions. More specifically, Fe is being aware of the streams. Similarly, the lake isn't really just your emotions, as I said earlier. Fi is being aware of the lake.

It's imagery for meditation, to try and help you lead yourself to a deeper understanding of yourself. It's not an abstract theoretical model in which everything can be objectively labeled. Trying to understand Fe and particularly Fi in an objective way will fail. You have to let go and just perceive, using the imagery as a starting point.

You might learn something, or you might not. It is necessarily self-exploration, because Fi is by definition extremely subjective.
 

yvonne

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do you think the streams are our emotional impulses, but the lake is the core where they're coming from... that's sort of what i was getting at with the core values... but it's not just the values, but everything that affects our emotional impulses?
 
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