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  1. #61
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
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    Dec 2008


    I dunno. I know precisely what you are talking about. It doesn't eat me up inside, but when I hear a story of how someone has wronged others etc I really want Karma to come in and kick their butt. I have jumped in the middle of stuff that I have no business in AT ALL because I felt someone was being wronged.

    HOWEVER, I personally can be somewhat vindictive at times (in video games - OMFG THAT LOCK IS CAMPING THE GY! Warlock then becomes my target the rest of the BG - damn the objectives).

    I don't mind pointing it out either - you know - logging over to their server and asking them if their epeen is hurt from dying 19 times in a single game then telling them to stop being a GY camping nub and they might not become my doormat.... Neener!

    89% Extroverted ~ 68% Intuition ~ 84% Feeling ~ 89% Perceiving
    Enneagram: 2w1 SO/SP Socionics: ENFp
    Cognitive Process
    Se 30.4% Si 19.1% - Ne 38.4% Ni 26.4% - Te 23.1% Ti 20% - Fe 46.4% Fi 35.8%
    Sanguine | Phlegmatic
    Right Brain Dominant

  2. #62
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I see the desire for punishment and revenge as the symptom of the disease of cruelty. The problem with every act of cruelty is that it is perceived as justice regardless of how warped that perception is.


    In the end every behavior is at the end of a long cascade of dominos. Every act is merely a wave which has been acted upon and is acting upon. To stop this process of cruelty does not require blind forgiveness, but it does require an end to the chain of punishment and violation.
    A classic case for pacifism!

    I understand this view point, or rather the idea that every action is part of chain reaction, both as a cause and as an effect and the idea that the world is made up of the ripples of millions of actions or "the domino effect". I do see how pacifism and different philosophies/religions centering on forgiveness and love and strength through true moral/spiritual/non violent superiority are correct that they can counter and end cruelty.

    However, I also see that the genesis of the non-violence movement came out of necessity and it's actually very pragmatic. Pragmatically speaking sometimes measures that could be considered ruthless or cruel are necessary to counter or equalize another.

    It's all a very slippery slope and everyone always thinks they're justified. And of course, if I engage in it, then I *must* be justified - way more - than that person who started it. :P

    Every conflict or potential feud, interpersonal or international, has merits to be judged by a case to case basis. It's probably why there are higher degrees in "conflict studies" and "peace studies" etc.

    This is also why though I am far from being a violent person, I am not a pacifist. For me, it's more about equilibrium than pacifism for pacifism's sake.

    Also, in response to another member's observation that they're suprised more "F"s aren't more "non-vengeful"? I'm not surprised! F means you are passionate and/or sensitive - i.e. 'feel [a lot of] things deeply', as much as you love and believe in something the flip of that is you can get *really irate* (lol) when that is crossed. I had a friend tell me "I can only hate something as much as I love something else". He was also an MMA fighter. So if he loved someone or something and he felt you were attacking or threatening or belittling it he wanted to kick your ass. I'm not sure actually if he were a T or an F though...

    But yeah, there are flip sides to 'passion' and 'caring'.

    It makes sense. Again - equilibrium.

    The danger - and this is for T's and F's and just humans in general - is when all that goes unchecked and we all end up burning each other's houses down.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux


  3. #63


    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Apparently this arises for me occasionally out of an offended sense of justice. Or just a desire to see others suffer.

    I'm unlikely to do anything much about it, but if someone has really hurt my feelings, offended me, wronged me in an extremely serious way (which probably involved a lot of ongoing unacceptable behaviour), it drives me nuts if they then go on their merry way and seem to be perfectly happy and getting everything they've always wanted out of life. (If they have managed to offend me that much there is usually strong evidence to suggest that they have managed to do the same to others, so it might not be just about me.)

    There's part of me that would just like to see them get zapped by karma or something similar. Some people say to me that people who behave really badly will always reap what they sow, but sometimes it takes time.

    Do you have any comments on your experience with these type of feelings, their validity, how you can defuse them etc?

    Seriously, if I were a really vengeful person and willing to do something about it, there are a few people I've known who I might have done something really nasty to by now!
    I think your right it's only natural to wanna bitch slap someone back.
    I would say a classic case of an offended sense of justice.
    Close the book on that.

  4. #64
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    INFj None


    I do see and admire the value of pacifism. Generally, I practice pacifism. My reasons for doing so are not particularly pure, but most of the time, I behave myself.

    From what I have seen of bullying types, though, sometimes quick and decisive retribution is enough to cancel a behavior at least with one victim and when the victim is myself, my loved one, or someone I perceive as being unable to defend themselves, I am willing to spill a little bit of cruelty into the universe.

    I know it's probably short-sighted but reality is that if you go around pissing people off, sooner or later, somebody's going to take exception to it and react. Withholding what are darn near natural consequences for bad behavior isn't always doing the person a favor.

    Regardless, I'm going to protect my own in whatever way I can. Sometimes that means shutting my mouth and taking it and sometimes it means acting.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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