[Jungian Cognitive Functions] the differences between INTP and INFP

[Fluffywolf]

Well, when you make up the categories arbitrarily, there can be however many kinds of people you want in the world. When we ask, "How many kinds of people are there in the world?", we must choose some sort of criteria for distinguishing between different kinds.

In one sense, there is only one kind of person in the world: the carbon-based kind. If we define the categories as "carbon-based" or "not carbon-based", everyone in the world will fall into the former category.

Or, I could make up a system where everyone at least 5'6" tall is a K type, and everyone shorter than that is an R type. In terms of this system, there are only two kinds of people in the world.

Jung/MBTI does the same thing; it just divides people up into sixteen categories instead of two. It takes the set of all human attitudes and then just cuts them up sixteen ways and assigns an arbitrary label to each one.

So in terms of this particular arbitrarily made up labeling system, there are sixteen kinds of people.

Yeah obviously, but the criteria of MBTI are not foolproof. We do still have free will, and choices we can make. Events in our lives that can shift us between the various behavioural patterns of MBTI. Showing different kinds of cognative function strengths in different situations. To the point that there's no single MBTI system that we fit in perfectly. But still there's always one we'll fit in more than others.

 

[yvonne]

Suppose reason says the outcome should be A. And that outcome hurts you, outcome B you imagine would be much better for your feelings. Still, you decide to go A, because reason tells you that is the best course of action.

Would you regret your descision in the future or can you live with the hurt without regret?

I think INTP's, though emotional beings just like the rest of them, are somewhat masochistic at times when it comes to these things (Well, it's not really masochism, but more like being a martyr). We generally don't regret getting hurt. We can live with pain if we believe it was the best course of action. Our 'belief' of reason can transcend our own emotions. (I say belief instead of logic, due to obvious subjective nature of reason in and off itself)

We're extremists, bwaha. So ironic.

i like your way of thinking/ putting things into words. i understand it. i'm very good at dealing with pain. (physical and emotional)... i'm all for honesty. i don't want to lie to myself (or have people lying to me) for the fear of getting hurt, because i'm not really afraid of getting hurt... it's like... there's nothing they could say that i haven't already thought about myself... and the only decisions i have regretted in my life have been the ones where i have let my feelings get the best of me. i'm concerned for other people's feelings, though. i don't want to hurt people and i don't want to see people hurt.

i always thought that a few kind words and a hug and some reassurance/ advice... and my presence would be enough to help, but i've found that it isn't the case with all people. to me that's enough. to me it's enough that someone says sincerily, hey, it's ok, see the bright side... because i already know that (and i already know that i'm not being sensible), but i really appreciate it, if someone acknowledges that i feel, too.

i'm very much for kindness. i try to treat people with respect, even though i might think they're not being sensible at all... because sometimes i'm not being sensible. i've been hurt. i know how it feels to be alone, but i'm not afraid of those feelings. they're like my old friends.

 

[Cybin]

Suppose reason says the outcome should be A. And that outcome hurts you, outcome B you imagine would be much better for your feelings. Still, you decide to go A, because reason tells you that is the best course of action.

Your post could apply to anyone, and definately isn't Ti specific.

The misconception with Fi is that it is always concerned with a avoiding hurt. What this misses, however, that what feels right isn't always what avoids pain for itself. Maybe immature Fi types can give that impression.

The difference is, many times the impersonal (as in, relating to people and not catering to the self) will feel like the worse corse of action wheras with INTPs, the impersonal will probably seem like the best.

A better illustration, imo, is to think of an INFP and INTP in a managerial type position. An INFP with Fi making a personal decision will improve working conditions because how their workers feel is important, and you want to keep everyone pleased with their environment. An INTP with Ti making an impersonal decision will improve working conditions because higher morale means higher productivity (Ti-Fe working together to analyze personal interaction).

Also, don't discount the INFP that values objectivity, which I believe you fall into Yvonne.

 

[yvonne]

yeah. i suppose i just monitor my feelings all the time. i don't want them to come interfere too much, because i've made mistakes like that in the past. i know they are there and i let them be.

 

[Cybin]

Just don't confuse feeling with emotion. Feeling is a rational process, emotion is a physical response.

I know I get myself into trouble acting on emotion, and I try to understand them rather than go with them. Understanding why I have an emotional response helps understand my feelings and hopefully stops me from acting before thinking.

 

[INFtha14]

Suppose reason says the outcome should be A. And that outcome hurts you, outcome B you imagine would be much better for your feelings. Still, you decide to go A, because reason tells you that is the best course of action.

Hope you don't mind me quoting you Fluffywolf.
Gave me a good idea of how I could present a contrast between
the INFP and INTP.

Well here it shows how you make a decision for the best course of action via reason.

I'm going to use a real life decision I had to make. *how I was going to greive over someone close that passed*

For me as an INFP I've looked at things in the sense of what would be better for self growth/honoring like Outcome A says avoid the pain and never understand the reasons behind why it happened so thus spend my whole life searching for answers but not in a healthy manor via unhealthy relationships/attachments/ bad decisions cause the underlying reason is not understood.

Outcome B tells me to go through the pain no matter how much it causes me sleepless nights/fear/anxiety etc. Cause in the end at least I'll have confronted my demons and won't be looking for the answers where they won't be. I search for the truth as to be self honoring to heal.

I chose Outcome B cause Outcome A sounded horrible to put myself through that over ocA. So pretty much told myself " if the pain/internal harmony goes unresolved then it will show up in any bad decisions/attachements later on."

Sound like following Reason or following internal harmony first?

Hope this provides a way to see how their different .

 

[OrangeAppled]

Your post could apply to anyone, and definately isn't Ti specific.

The misconception with Fi is that it is always concerned with a avoiding hurt. What this misses, however, that what feels right isn't always what avoids pain for itself. Maybe immature Fi types can give that impression.

The difference is, many times the impersonal (as in, relating to people and not catering to the self) will feel like the worse corse of action wheras with INTPs, the impersonal will probably seem like the best.

A better illustration, imo, is to think of an INFP and INTP in a managerial type position. An INFP with Fi making a personal decision will improve working conditions because how their workers feel is important, and you want to keep everyone pleased with their environment. An INTP with Ti making an impersonal decision will improve working conditions because higher morale means higher productivity (Ti-Fe working together to analyze personal interaction).

Also, don't discount the INFP that values objectivity, which I believe you fall into Yvonne.

A good post, although I feel that in this hypothetical situation of a managerial position, my thinking would be less about how other people feel than MY feeling of what is ethical; in this situation, it's a "treat people how I want to be treated" feeling being applied less than wanting to please others. It is ethical to make working conditions of people positive, and this is further supported as correct by the proven fact that good morale usually increases productivity (Fi-Te, ethical based viewpoint, using external measures to support the feeling). Even if my employees were okay with being treated like crap & were working hard & well, I would still feel bad because it is wrong for me to condone those conditions.

To add to the main point of your post though, I want to emphasize that an INFP can have conflict between values and desires, or rational conclusions vs. emotion. A Fi-dom can and will go with what they feel is right over what they want. That means they may feel badly from an emotional standpoint, but know that a decision is the reasonable course. This is partly why INFPs are often said to have "internal conflict". There is not only a harmonizing of internal feelings happening, but one of feelings and emotion, as they can be at odds.

 

[Cybin]

A good post, although I feel that in this hypothetical situation of a managerial position, my thinking would be less about how other people feel than MY feeling of what is ethical; in this situation, it's a "treat people how I want to be treated" feeling being applied less than wanting to please others. It is ethical to make working conditions of people positive, and this is further supported as correct by the proven fact that good morale usually increases productivity (Fi-Te, ethical based viewpoint, using external measures to support the feeling). Even if my employees were okay with being treated like crap & were working hard & well, I would still feel bad because it is wrong for me to condone those conditions.

I was just trying to find an extreme divide between a personal/impersonal decision. Or rather, focusing on internal vs external. But yes, I agree with this completely. Thanks.

 

[yvonne]

Even if my employees were okay with being treated like crap & were working hard & well, I would still feel bad because it is wrong for me to condone those conditions.

how would it be wrong, if they didn't feel like they are treated like crap?

it was interesting to make the divide between feeling and emotion... i'm not quite sure if i understand it? i've always thought those are synonyms, or that emotion is just heightened feeling?

 

[simulatedworld]

Yeah obviously, but the criteria of MBTI are not foolproof. We do still have free will, and choices we can make. Events in our lives that can shift us between the various behavioural patterns of MBTI. Showing different kinds of cognative function strengths in different situations. To the point that there's no single MBTI system that we fit in perfectly. But still there's always one we'll fit in more than others.

Right, but MBTI doesn't really claim that you can't use different cognitive functions in different situations. The criteria refer to preferences, not absolute unconditional use of any particular function.

That's what I mean when I say they're designed to cover everyone. An ENFJ isn't defined as someone who always uses Fe; it's someone whose strongest and most valued perspective is Fe, but who also uses the other perspectives in varying smaller degrees.

So if your most valued perspective is Fe, and you prefer Ni to Si, then you do fit perfectly into the ENFJ mold. "Fitting perfectly" doesn't mean "always using the dominant function and never any others." The categories are designed that way.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Hope you don't mind me quoting you Fluffywolf.
Gave me a good idea of how I could present a contrast between
the INFP and INTP.

Well here it shows how you make a decision for the best course of action via reason.

I'm going to use a real life decision I had to make. *how I was going to greive over someone close that passed*

For me as an INFP I've looked at things in the sense of what would be better for self growth/honoring like Outcome A says avoid the pain and never understand the reasons behind why it happened so thus spend my whole life searching for answers but not in a healthy manor via unhealthy relationships/attachments/ bad decisions cause the underlying reason is not understood.

Outcome B tells me to go through the pain no matter how much it causes me sleepless nights/fear/anxiety etc. Cause in the end at least I'll have confronted my demons and won't be looking for the answers where they won't be. I search for the truth as to be self honoring to heal.

I chose Outcome B cause Outcome A sounded horrible to put myself through that over ocA. So pretty much told myself " if the pain/internal harmony goes unresolved then it will show up in any bad decisions/attachements later on."

Sound like following Reason or following internal harmony first?

Hope this provides a way to see how their different .

That quoted example wasn't the contrast, how we deal with the consequences was the contrast. The part you quoted was just a cause that leads up to it. Like Cybin said, unless I give specifics, that example could go the way I said it would with every MBTI type. I didn't, because I wasn't trying to make an example specific for INTP's. I just made a cause and said how INTP's deal with it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but INFP's are much more likely to drag their feelings along. And being influenced by the consequences drastically different from how INTP's deal with it. For INTP's, reason is law. We'll try everything we can to diminish the pain through by any means neccesary, as long as it is reasonable. If we conflict with our own reason, that's when we'd truly feel hurt. Whereas an INFP might be able to accept not having gone with reason if the outcome was somehow overall 'better' to their Fi.

 

[INFtha14]

That quoted example wasn't the contrast, how we deal with the consequences was the contrast. The part you quoted was just a cause that leads up to it. Like Cybin said, unless I give specifics, that example could go the way I said it would with every MBTI type. I didn't, because I wasn't trying to make an example specific for INTP's. I just made a cause and said how INTP's deal with it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but INFP's are much more likely to drag their feelings along. And being influenced by the consequences drastically different from how INTP's deal with it. For INTP's, reason is law. We'll try everything we can to diminish the pain through by any means neccesary, as long as it is reasonable. If we conflict with our own reason, that's when we'd truly feel hurt. Whereas an INFP might be able to accept not having gone with reason if the outcome was somehow overall 'better' to their Fi.

Got ya ;D.

What do you mean by reason?

As an INfP I came to the conclusion of dimishing the pain the best way possible was to just deal with it and face it head on.

Personally I saw all the problems that could happen if I didn't so I decided It'd be best to face it. Like unresolved pain would show up in a negative way later on if I didn't deal with it while it was happening.

For instance if I don't it may show up in bad relationship decisions/ bad career decisions/not resolving the root of why things are the way they are and why I'd be angry or resentful of some actions. I always try to get the root of the cause of something.

Through facing it head on came with facing what was a chain reaction from something that happened. Mother and I had abit of a strained relationship which I realized I was obviously angry with her over something(s). So find the reason(s) why it was happening and try to resolve it as to avoid further complication. Hence why I told myself it's best to face feelings head on rather then ignore them.

Sorry if I repeat myself. Had a hard time describing this.

Maybe that's dragging feelings along? To me that's my idea of reasoning?

Reason is law... What do you see as reason? I've always wondered what is "reason" to an INTP.

 

[CzeCze]

INXPs can look remarkably similar at first glance or at work, where an INFPs quarternary...(did I just make that up?) Te kicks in.

The deep, 'gravity collapsing upon itself' nature of Fi can really make an INFP look INTP and the emotionality (another made up word) of INTPs can make them look INFP. I don't care what people say, I know plenty of emotive/emotionally expressive/and just plain emotional INTPs. It's not an insult.

Some people think Fi is warm - it's not. Especially in INFPs it can have more of a prickly, awkward quality. And INTPs can be...well...prickly and awkward.

LOL. Okay I'll stop with the unhelpful generalizations but really I'd like some answers myself.

I think also what you think of yourself as makes a huge difference. If you are programmed to be a thinker but think of yourself as a feeler it will really effect (affect?) how you seem to the world. Same if you are 'meant' to be a feeler but think you should act like a thinker.

I think one subtle difference is that INFPs are more prone to find things 'rude' while an INTP is not.

Also, once you get past an INXP's shell, the differences are more pronounced. Even though both may 'warm up' to you, there is something more detached in the way the INTP regards the matters of your relationship and feelings. It's generally harder on an INFP to apologize and an INTP will do it more matter of factly. An INFP all of sudden gets really gooey. Hmm.. maybe scratch that because INTPs can get gooey on you too, but there's just more of a sense of detachment? Or not as gooey-ness?

This isn't very helfpul, is it? LOL.

Some INFPs and INTPs are clearly different and are clearly T/F divide. But I think the INTP/INFP more than other 'type siblings' can look and act remarkably similar.

 

[OrangeAppled]

INXPs can look remarkably similar at first glance or at work, where an INFPs quarternary...(did I just make that up?) Te kicks in.

The deep, 'gravity collapsing upon itself' nature of Fi can really make an INFP look INTP and the emotionality (another made up word) of INTPs can make them look INFP. I don't care what people say, I know plenty of emotive/emotionally expressive/and just plain emotional INTPs. It's not an insult.

Some people think Fi is warm - it's not. Especially in INFPs it can have more of a prickly, awkward quality. And INTPs can be...well...prickly and awkward.

LOL. Okay I'll stop with the unhelpful generalizations but really I'd like some answers myself.

I think also what you think of yourself as makes a huge difference. If you are programmed to be a thinker but think of yourself as a feeler it will really effect (affect?) how you seem to the world. Same if you are 'meant' to be a feeler but think you should act like a thinker.

I think one subtle difference is that INFPs are more prone to find things 'rude' while an INTP is not.

Also, once you get past an INXP's shell, the differences are more pronounced. Even though both may 'warm up' to you, there is something more detached in the way the INTP regards the matters of your relationship and feelings. It's generally harder on an INFP to apologize and an INTP will do it more matter of factly. An INFP all of sudden gets really gooey. Hmm.. maybe scratch that because INTPs can get gooey on you too, but there's just more of a sense of detachment? Or not as gooey-ness?

This isn't very helfpul, is it? LOL.

Some INFPs and INTPs are clearly different and are clearly T/F divide. But I think the INTP/INFP more than other 'type siblings' can look and act remarkably similar.

No, I think it made some good points.

Along these lines, people must also remember that being more emotional includes negative emotion. It seems some expect an INFP to be sweet and warm, but the prickly, moodiness you describe is also emotion, just not positive emotion. INTPs may come off more even-tempered. My INTP uncle seems much friendlier than me in person, which people may read as "warmer" (although he's not really "warm" either). I come off a little more withdrawn and moody at times. Upon getting to know us, people will find I have much more passionate feeling and depth of emotion. My uncle remains steady and somewhat detached.

When it comes to relationships/feelings and discussing these, the INFP may finally show the warm and kind side of Fi. You just have to appeal to our empathy and/or earn our trust.

The apology thing is spot on - it's more emotional for an INFP to apologize, and also possibly harder. I'm talking big apologies, not "sorrys" because we stepped on your foot or ran late .

 

[aeonzone]

In my sight,
the main difference between INTP and INFP is how they access / accept and process / judge the information they've recieved consciously / unconsciously.
INTP could be very emotional, subjective and have strong value power,
while INFP could be very logical, objective and have strong logic power
(No man on Earth could be truly, precisely logical / objective for the words logical and objective is based on human-made systems mankind influence each other. Other things from outer space could see our logic and knowledge as nonsense).
Myers-Briggs Type Indicator shows the preference of an individual,
not the capacity of thinking / feeling / what-so-ever.
I'll say it is rather evident in stating a certain individual's logical / objective possibilities / development / capacity could get better if he / she has T preference than F preference under the exact circumstances.
Not even the interest is judged by types though it could give some possibilities
that some type is likely to have what kind of interest.
T is for logic-oriented and F is for value-oriented.
So think for yourself comparing you focused more on logic or value whether it is right or not, good or evil.
After all, it is you who judge your type. Not your type to judge you!
Which gives the reason why I'm typed XNXP and I'm happy about it.

Post Script :
INTP vs INFP preference seems to be the most discussed MBTI type crisis
based on my experience which is subjective and personal(thinking statistic proof
is the answer to the exact assertion and meaning my opinion could be bullshit).