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[INFJ] Are INFJs naturally fascinated with ENTPs?

Synarch

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Funny, I am an ENTP who met an INFJ. I feel that I m the one more emotionally invested due to the fact that he is always holding back his feelings so much. So I will never know how 'invested' he really is.

Too many internal defensive walls for me to break down, it's a delicious challenge though I have to admit. :)

I can relate to this.

I cannot speak for other ENTP's, but I read so much from what is going on around me that if I do not have sufficient external data in terms of expressions of emotion or statements of commitment I assume that things are not going well. I know that INXJ's often feel that once they say something there is no further need to say the same thing. So this can create a challenge.
 

Synarch

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there's often a kind of imbalance between the infj perception and the perception of the other.

I have noticed this.

we are definitely challenging. i think infj-entp is celebrated because entp is one of the few types who sees that "challenge" as a positive thing, rather than an exhausting waltz with a hot air balloon who is always too inflated or deflated (although the later is more relevant to the extremely intense sx infjs).

Interesting. I always feel like the inflated or deflated one. Do you notice your ENTP friend being inflated/deflated a lot?
 
S

sammy

Guest
I can relate to this.

I cannot speak for other ENTP's, but I read so much from what is going on around me that if I do not have sufficient external data in terms of expressions of emotion or statements of commitment I assume that things are not going well. I know that INXJ's often feel that once they say something there is no further need to say the same thing. So this can create a challenge.

Amen brotha.

I definitely need more data to work with when interacting with INxJs over an extended period of time. Otherwise, like you, I am uncertain of where things are going.
 

the state i am in

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Interesting. I always feel like the inflated or deflated one. Do you notice your ENTP friend being inflated/deflated a lot?

no, i don't ever really see him deflated. he's the most positively realistic but still ambitious and still aware of the needs of others person i've ever met.

my perception of you is entp 7w6 sx/sp, which is different than him. he's a 7w6 sx/so, more free flowing, all in, really open, etc. i'm an sx/sp, and i see that as more conflicted, more inner tension, more tendency to be paranoid, more time spent imagining the worst and a desire to understand how to deal with the worst. as if the worst is always a little closer/more nearby than it is for sx/so. who just invest completely and without fear of repercussions. both sx types have kind of addictive personalities.

i learn a lot about finding the best overall attitude towards approaching life, completely accepting what may come but being resolute and decisive in the approach to making the best of whatever situation may present itself. it's a great counterbalance to me, who spends far more time trying to prepare for dealing with the worst, and imagining it, which takes too much time away from focusing on what i do want and always trying to put myself in a better place (which i feel is a more winning strategy in the long run).

as far as the first point about infjs at times having an inaccurate perception of the overall, i think part of that is heavily modified by infjs who are so dom or /so in their enneagram stacking. they can get the social vibes more. the sp and sx types are more focused on what they want or their own kind of reticent, private space. it's definitely not all infjs who are out of touch. i think the lack of Fi presents certain blindspots when imagining the experience of others as well. we, like you, need demonstrativeness, or symbolic action, so we can ascertain the motive. Ti can be really balancing for us in this regard, a good story can reassure us of what is true, what has unfolded, what has followed from what. it provides a context to understand motives, and if the story rings true, we'll be able to trust it. i hate needing reassurance, and maybe some day when i'm enlightened i won't need it.

ps i don't know if you've ever read them, but shakespeare's dark lady sonnets feel entp 7w6 sx/sp. i'm in a class--i'm specifically thinking of #138.
 

Fidelia

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Interesting, State and Synarch! I always have felt like if anything, I am the way too transparent and demonstrative one compared to the T types I tend to be attracted to. I hate feeling like I don't know where I'm at with them. I am so/sx though, so maybe that's part of it. I do get a more aloof vibe from some other varieties of INFJs. I still find though that I need someone else's reaction to understand if their perception of me matches up with what I think I am transmitting to them. I've never really had someone give me much feedback in that way, so I still am not sure if I am conveying all I intend to to someone I care for a lot.
 

cascadeco

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Interesting, State and Synarch! I always have felt like if anything, I am the way too transparent and demonstrative one compared to the T types I tend to be attracted to. I hate feeling like I don't know where I'm at with them. I am so/sx though, so maybe that's part of it. I do get a more aloof vibe from some other varieties of INFJs. I still find though that I need someone else's reaction to understand if their perception of me matches up with what I think I am transmitting to them. I've never really had someone give me much feedback in that way, so I still am not sure if I am conveying all I intend to to someone I care for a lot.

It may be the 'so' instinctual variant, then!

I really don't know that I can be objective about this... asking a friend or partner how 'transparent' I am would be much more helpful. I am not certain that I am *good* at hiding my emotions, although part of it may be that with those I am close to, I choose not to hide all traces. So, I suspect those who know me would sense when things were off... either by my body language or more likely by the fact that I've become too still, inward, and un-demonstrative.

I do, however, have quite a difficult time verbalizing my emotions. Part of that is that I am incredibly uncomfortable verbalizing them before I've fully explored them, because 1. After exploration they might dissolve away and all of it's a non-issue, and 2. Tied to that I never want to prematurely talk about something if I haven't analyzed it to figure out what's going on. Typically when something's up, I tend to have conflicting emotions or thoughts and am no longer certain if I'm blowing everything out of proportion or if I'm in fact 'justified' to my emotions and it's something I need to talk about. While I understand this is frustrating for those I'm close to - i.e. they might prefer my unexplored, unfiltered, un-thought-through thoughts/perceptions, I believe in most cases my unexplored thoughts/feelings are so jumbled and half of them might be so ridiculous or off the mark that it would cause more problems, confusion, misunderstandings, and potential hurt to state them in the moment than after I've thought through everything.

I think tied to what I just wrote, that's why in relationships I can actually seem less demonstrative and much less expressive sometimes than T's. I also have a tendency to retreat and become fearful when someone's overly demonstrative to me... although I guess that is usually when my feelings towards them aren't in sync with how they're treating me.
 

the state i am in

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cascadeco, that sounds really sp to me. so types are able to dial in to the social reality much more effortlessly than us. i have an easy time exploring someone--i can break down their defenses, draw them out, see them very nakedly, and i can match their energy if i COMPLETELY believe in the situation and desire it, but as soon as that dissipates, as i become unsure, i have a tendency to retreat as well. at that point, i lose sense of what i want, what is true, what the interaction means to both parties and to others in a social context/shared reality. i want to get it together, collect and organize my thoughts and feelins, understand exactly what it is that i want and what is true, before i become fully open again, instead staying somewhat withdrawn and very private.

so types borrow their self-understandings from the world more naturally. the infj 4w5 so/sx girl i know has a really difficult time knowing where to draw lines, to stand firm and say that she is right and that the conflicting party (with her) is in fact wrong. she wants sympathy and understanding and moral support, a kind of alliance with others, in a way that seems somewhat stronger than how i generally seem to feel. while it is true, i think, of most Fe users, my sx sense of what i want makes me more stubborn, impatient, unbudging, whereas she is more flexible and diffuse. i think so types are more often to have their general sense of lightness turn into this kind of DRIFTING away kind of anxiety. i don't feel lost when 100% stressed, i feel that the world has nothing in it of value for me, i lose my ability to want, and in the midst of that, there's no place to escape and let it all pass me by.
 

Vasilisa

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I recognize this thread is about all nature of partnerships, not just romantic. I just wanted to relate some of the great comments to my experience.
being open and in the moment all the time is next to impossible for us because we feel it can consume us from the inside out. we are always looking for improvements, always scanning for possibilities, imagining the whole of the story that has come before--it creates a kind of exhausting perfection, and the lack of Ji in the first two functions makes grounding technqiues really important so we don't short-circuit. both stress response and balancing internal/external pressures (our own idealism vs the reality of the situation/what is actually here before us) are our primary weak points. and Pi has trouble letting go of the past, because it is so often referencing the past when engaging the present and imagining the future. it is always part of the story surrounding us, part of the total meaning of our lives and the world we live in.

.... with the entp especially, i think i assume emotional annoyance and irritation far more than what is likely to be the case (whereas the intps probably actually ARE annoyed! :D). he has mostly purified his own psychological system, balanced himself very well, so he doesn't do things that are damaging to him. we obviously have a great connection--but i have way more of a tendency to doubt that with him and with others because i don't slow down and imagine the Ti validity of judgment in the situation, understanding motive from more perspectives than just what my Fe is receiving as input.

we are definitely challenging. i think infj-entp is celebrated because entp is one of the few types who sees that "challenge" as a positive thing, rather than an exhausting waltz with a hot air balloon who is always too inflated or deflated (although the later is more relevant to the extremely intense sx infjs).

So well said! It resonates a lot, so thanks for explaining it. In my experience in a romantic relationship with an ENTP, once good communication was established I didn't hold back or edit myself and he was able to express emotion without fear. And not getting uptight over anticipated annoyance was key. Which some might find contradictory with what I said about not editing, but it was more a frame of mind, as you described. A level of security. It does not come easy. Perhaps he loved me best when I could just be.

Interesting. I always feel like the inflated or deflated one. Do you notice your ENTP friend being inflated/deflated a lot?

I'm just going to come out and boldly state that I think a devoted INFJ is one of the best things for a deflated ENTP. Certainly I'm biased. Mine wasn't balanced, and he struggled with psychic pain (as do we all). Emotionally nurturing him during his deflated times came naturally to me, and it was deeply rewarding. And it made him grasp my devotion and start to trust. From what I have read this plays out with other couples of this type and it works for many. I think what nijasumi described is the tougher scenario.

Amen brotha.

I definitely need more data to work with when interacting with INxJs over an extended period of time. Otherwise, like you, I am uncertain of where things are going.

If I understand it, you guys are referring to INFJs not talking or verbally expressing themselves enough. So evidently there is a lot of enneagram variables that go into this, but speaking as me whatever its worth, once you have us by the heart you will hear a lot more. When its a love connection, its so valuable, it is worth discussing. It is easy to get swept up, if you're clicking and fascinated and exhilarated, and discussion can fall by the wayside. We had some temporary separations (just life-happens kind of stuff) and kind of like seeds opened in fire, our relationship grew at that time because it allowed us to find another level of connection with communication.
My comments probably don't help you understand us, but maybe its some encouragement. A lot of comes down to letting go of fear for both parties. Good communication is possible and worth the effort between these types.

Its so interesting to hear the characteristics of my fellow INFJs. :wubbie:
Plus I'm inspired to tackle the enneagram question again.
 

revolve

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just wondering if infjs are fascinated / drawn to certain enneagram types of entps more than other entps or if it's that infj are drawn to 7's but methinks its the Ne Ti that infjs like & enneagram type doesn't mean poop cuz if infjs were drawn to 7's then they'd be fascinated by enfps too, . . . which doesn't seem the case . . . oih . . . i hope my infj boyfriend doesn't meet any entp chicks anytime soon . . . i guess entps, regardless of their enneagram type is the draw?
 

Fidelia

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I think there are some elements that are a bit symbiotic about us and ENTPs. I don't think it's all about enneagram.
 

the state i am in

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just wondering if infjs are fascinated / drawn to certain enneagram types of entps more than other entps or if it's that infj are drawn to 7's but methinks its the Ne Ti that infjs like & enneagram type doesn't mean poop cuz if infjs were drawn to 7's then they'd be fascinated by enfps too, . . . which doesn't seem the case . . . oih . . . i hope my infj boyfriend doesn't meet any entp chicks anytime soon . . . i guess entps, regardless of their enneagram type is the draw?

i think a combination of both combined with gender.

i'm an e5, and i know that 7w6 is my favorite enneagram type. the enthusiasm and the sensitivity work for me. the enneagram sites describe 7w6 as more dreamy-imaginative than 7w8.

i don't get along with 3w4 entps as well. i'd say 7w6, then 7w8, then 3w4 as a general trend. i like 7w8 so/sx because it's a little lighter and more fluid, to me, than others/it compliments me as an sx/sp well.

infjs relate to enfps in different ways. we're fascinated by the Ti of entps, it's so expansive due to Ne, it has some shared Fe purpose, and it's much much better than ours! but both enp types can help us move forward, expand our sense of possibilities, and help us deal with the particular in a more positive, setting a goal and going for it, optimistic way. enfps also make us feel understood in a way that we have trouble understanding ourselves. they connect what we think/see to what they imagine us to feel, and that process helps us recognize a lot about our emotional state that we're mostly unaware of. they're also very good at lifting that state, partly due to the way that Fi confirms worth/value of others in a different way that we cannot immediately produce ourselves, that in their subjective reality what you feel is important to them, they care about your state, etc.

i still don't understand the plethora of ways that being wanted and wanting line up with psychological motivations. that gets into too detailed territory and introduces a wide variety of factors that we don't really talk about yet in this discussion. it suffices to say that i wouldn't worry too much about it, because there are strengths and weaknesses of both, and both types have a very solid place in the infj imagination--a kind of ongoing, continual, renewable attraction.
 

Z Buck McFate

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infjs relate to enfps in different ways. we're fascinated by the Ti of entps, it's so expansive due to Ne, it has some shared Fe purpose, and it's much much better than ours! but both enp types can help us move forward, expand our sense of possibilities, and help us deal with the particular in a more positive, setting a goal and going for it, optimistic way. enfps also make us feel understood in a way that we have trouble understanding ourselves. they connect what we think/see to what they imagine us to feel, and that process helps us recognize a lot about our emotional state that we're mostly unaware of. they're also very good at lifting that state, partly due to the way that Fi confirms worth/value of others in a different way that we cannot immediately produce ourselves, that in their subjective reality what you feel is important to them, they care about your state, etc.

i still don't understand the plethora of ways that being wanted and wanting line up with psychological motivations. that gets into too detailed territory and introduces a wide variety of factors that we don't really talk about yet in this discussion. it suffices to say that i wouldn't worry too much about it, because there are strengths and weaknesses of both, and both types have a very solid place in the infj imagination--a kind of ongoing, continual, renewable attraction.

I love the INFJ friends I have in real life, but sometimes spending too much time around either of them can lead to an unbearably heavy feeling (not all the time- just sometimes). It’s immeasurably helpful to know them; to have others who humanize my obsessive-compulsive tendency to explore the meaning of things, to have people to bounce reality off of and always have it come back making sense. But we also share the same blind spots. Seeing possibilities in the external world tends to be one of them, sometimes as much as the present-moment external world [Se] can be; feeling like there aren’t any external possibilities can be really discouraging. This isn’t true of all INFJs, but it does tend to be true of the particularly introverted ones.

It’s like a “how many INFJs does it take to change a light bulb?” kind of thing. It’s kind of ridiculous (and more than a little bit embarrassing at times), but- being on probably the too extreme end of INFJ, where INFJness gets too thick- we can have absolutely no idea where to find the light bulbs to put the theory into action. We can construct amazing lighting arrangements in our heads: but when it comes to actually acquiring the light bulbs, we can be at a loss. And while Se users can offer “you can find light bulbs right here, right now”- we often pooh pooh those light bulbs, instinctively hoping for better ones (better external possibilities to match the ideal we’ve created in our heads). Ne people add a much needed “you can get better light bulbs here! …and here! AND HERE!” to our perspective. They are much better at gleaming the specific kind of light bulbs needed for us to extravert what’s in our heads (maybe sharing Ti & Fe with us makes ENTPs especially good at it).

I can’t quite figure out how to clearly articulate how that^ analogy translates into real life, so I hope it at least *kinda* makes sense.

And it seems like- in turn- there’s something comforting about INFJ gravity to ENPs. I’m just going on what I gathered from the ENP I dated for several years here, but for him: having access to every single possibility in the external world can feel empty if you don’t know how to weigh it down with some internal significance. I know this was a serious blind spot for him, but he was on the particularly extraverted end of ENP. If attaching some internal meaning (by “meaning”, I’m referring to actual emotional weight- not simply the kind of ‘meaning’ a dictionary can provide- but a direct link from something in the external world directly to one’s subjective existential core) is anywhere near the challenge for other ENPs as it was for the one I dated, then I can see how INFJ influence would be especially appealing. My ENP was somewhat addicted to the way I could put him in touch with his subjective core. I could be totally off about this being the ENP blind spot, though.

edit: I feel the need to clarify what I said in the last paragraph. After my ENP and I broke up for the final time, he complained about how it was too easy to win over the single women who crossed his path. He always felt- when it was really easy to convince people of things that occurred to him off the top of his head- that nothing felt real or authentic. And that’s how it is with other people for him, more often than not. Having someone around- to question everything that didn’t quite ring true- was comforting to him. That’s what I mean by ‘attach internal meaning’ or giving things 'emotional weight'.
 

nijasumi

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I can relate to this.

I cannot speak for other ENTP's, but I read so much from what is going on around me that if I do not have sufficient external data in terms of expressions of emotion or statements of commitment I assume that things are not going well. I know that INXJ's often feel that once they say something there is no further need to say the same thing. So this can create a challenge.

I guess INFJ-ENTP people are really good with controlling their emotions and suppressing physical/verbal hints that they do not want to reveal. It can be an enigma sometimes how the interaction works.

I had an infj friend for years and our first impression of each other was so insignificant we dismissed each other existence until recently. Our first serious conversation was horrendously explosive. We pissed each other off in the worst imaginable way possible. Guess that's the first defensive wall down- Underestimating each other.

After that, we connected in a way that is so cosmic and bizarre. We kept talking and debating endlessly for hours, draining each other's brain dry but it never seem to deplete our mental energy though.

He slowly opened up and each layer of defense was more difficult to break than the previous one. When all defense is down, he retreated into silence - hoping to never reveal anymore weakness and just to impress in the future.

The creepy thing is, I never had the intention of giving up. He is such a mystery and it intrigues me to explore every inch of his neurons, cells and his soul ultimately.
 

Winds of Thor

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...they INFJ finds out that the ENTP is invested in a billion other areas, making the INFJ feel like yesterday's newspaper. Discarded.

I think what it comes down to is that the ENTPs know how to play to the INFJs but ultimately don't need INFJs because they get along with so many types. INFJs don't have that luxury so we're kind of like the girlfriend that will always go back to the abusive boyfriend, knowing they're just going to get hurt.

That's really fuking interesting because either that is true that the INFJ needs to go back to the ENTP...OR..I've seen an INFJ act like she could care less. You think this is a mask to true INFJ feelings? Not wanting to get too close so backing off at that point to avoid sharp pain of separation so the INFJ 'self-separates' in advance of what is viewed as imminent?

I hope I don't hear you being a martyr brother. ENTPs need the depth that INFJs can meet...truly in my opinion.
 

Winds of Thor

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A lot of comes down to letting go of fear for both parties. Good communication is possible and worth the effort between these types.

Its so interesting to hear the characteristics of my fellow INFJs. :wubbie:.

Ya if your INFJ isn't so immature. I know, sounds ironic.
 

Nescio

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I wonder if it's the same if the genders are reversed. Are the female ENTPs as INFJ crazy as the men are? For some reason I keep thinking they prefer Ts, or at least the pull isn't as intense.

personally I only have an N preference

and yes INFJ=:wubbie:
 

Johnfloyd6675

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Perhaps the reason you don't hear about INFJs going after ENTPs is that they are naturally more likely to wait for someone to approach them and they also tend to do more solitary activities. The ENTP is more likely to vocalize their enthusiasm to a wider audience as well. I think ENTPs like us because we slow them down and we make them see some familiar subjects/situations with similarities, but give new perspectives that they haven't encountered.

Yes, we strive to give new perspectives that people haven't encountered. We're the only MBTI type that's also the callsign of an NPR station.

ENTPs want glory the same way that ENTJs want power; their day-to-day behavior vacuums up attention and authority faster than a simile. Now, ENTPs do care deeply about others, and I assume this about ENTJs, but can't speak from an ENTJ brain, so I dunno. Maybe they think you all smell. Assuming otherwise, however, I think that ENTJs and ENTPs are two flavors of ice cream in a sugar cone: they're the leadership caste (along with ENFPs) and, while of course this is America and they can do whatever they want, chances are the average introvert will find ENTs appealing because they are respected and powerful and not too hard on the eyes.

There's not a whole hell of a lot of moral consciousness for an ENTP; between the Ne and the Ti, we dont have time to think about Hell. But I think that a lot of the appeal to INFx and introverts generally is that here you've got an ENTP in the middle of the room, telling a funny story to a rapt audience, but if you look in his eyes you'll see he's not having the time of his life. He's just rolling. And I think that, of all the types, the ENTP could kill somebody (for a reason) without skipping much of a beat. Rolling just to keep on rolling.

That's why we hot

That's why we're sexy.
 

CuriousFeeling

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If being fascinated with ENTP Timelords (Doctor Who) count, then yes, there is a natural fascination.
 

kevdod

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more on infj entp

Hi all, I am new to the forum but have been a student of type for the past 15 years or so. I am an ENTP and have had a number of romantic and platonic relationships with INFJ's over the years.

If I could sum up the attraction of the ENTP/INFJ, it would be this;
INFJ's understand themselves, but don't understand the world. ENTP's understand the world, but don't understand themselves.

This yin/yang effect works because both types get utility out of the relationship: INFJ's need to better understand the world, and the ENTP's can help them with that. ENTP's need to better understand themselves, and INFJ's can help them with that.

This is then facilitated by a similar iNtuitive communication style with helps them to understand each other, and supported by a common Fe function (so they are both emotionally oriented on each other) and a common Ti function (so they don't get on each others nerves by talking at each other (i.e. extroverted thinking)).

And not too sure where this fits in, but INFJ's have a strong sense of "soul" or "universal meaning" that is absent in the ENTP. When the ENTP gets discouraged with life (the Ne-primary "beat down") the INFJ can offer up the ultimate support to the ENTP, which is an assuredness that their is actually a point (or meaning) to all of the BS of life. In return, the INFJ get's to be the sharer of this "ultimate truth" with the ENTP, which reaffirms to them their own specialness and meaning-giving in the world.

A win/win - and both INFJ's and ENTP's like that (the common Fe orientation :) ) !
 
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