[INFJ] Are INFJs naturally fascinated with ENTPs?

[Synarch]

i agree with what you say regarding seeing others. i do not know if infjs filter in a way that does this more than others, or if infjs are often more overly and mistakenly sure of their readings, or if it is just a case of infjs sensitivity in one area not being helpful at all in others and leading to blind spots relationally. i am also not sure if you are suggesting that infjs get hurt or do the hurting. or if they just have a tendency to introduce situations that are potentially damaging to many parties unnecessarily.

It seems to be more a result of their own straightforwardness. They can assume that everyone is as straightforward and in control as they are.

 

[Fidelia]

Would you say the best way to avoid this is not to engage? What about strangers who just randomly pick you to tell their life story too, even without you making contact with them. This actually happens.

 

[Synarch]

Would you say the best way to avoid this is not to engage? What about strangers who just randomly pick you to tell their life story too, even without you making contact with them. This actually happens.

I honestly don't know. I think I'm too skeptical and suspicious of people to offer good, solid advice on the subject. But, I do know how men are. They can easily confuse niceness with receptivity.

It's really a choice between two ways. Either trust everyone until they make some obvious violation or let people earn your trust. I choose to let people earn my trust and warmth rather than extend it by default. But, again, I am not sure I have the best approach on this score as I am a bit cynical.

 

[Synarch]

Would you say the best way to avoid this is not to engage? What about strangers who just randomly pick you to tell their life story too, even without you making contact with them. This actually happens.

Here's the thing, also. Do women tend to initiate contact as much as men? Why do you think this is?

 

[the state i am in]

i don't know, the so and the sx types seem the most likely to cheat. so is more distractable, and sx is more driven to find what it needs right now in the moment outta the way etc. so seems more avoidant of negativity and more go with the flow without being able to check the situation.

as an (sx)/sp person, i am caught between my own sx impulses and my hugely explored sense of personal vulnerability. that is what keeps me in check. i have imagined the situation from the other perspective so many times, am so fearful of it (needlessly, over-valuing the destruction it would cause me, ruin me, etc), but this has resulted in a very strong desire for highly ethical behavior.

it's difficult to decide what is right and true when the needs seem different (and no objective standpoint says how to do it or what is right). balancing them seems like the goal, but the priority is still as is. how can i be authentic to my sx desire and self-focus, my need for intense connection, while being ethical and making the most supportive version of /sp for my own becoming? i know that foresaking it completely will get me nowhere, i know that is must be strongly in support to check me and to create a firm and stable platform upon which i can live.

i also believe that so/sx types and probably sx/so types don't have the same ramifications as the sp types. the sp types seem more damaged by the experience, are already more fearful, and the confirmation of these fears can make them more difficult to escape from.

 

[Synarch]

I think you just have to try to stay honest with yourself. This is amazingly difficult especially when you really want something.

 

[Fidelia]

I think for me, it just is hard to be perceived as neutral. Either I am actively freezing someone out (which I usually only reserve for people who have actually crossed a boundary that I made clear they were not welcome to cross), or else people accept what I perceive to be as just mundane exchange as being hugely significant and receive a message of receptivity that I certainly don't feel. I don't want to give mixed messages. For the last several years I was in a relationship, and lived in a relatively isolated place where it was physically dangerous for other women in the community to see you interact with local men, so it really hasn't been a big issue for awhile.

Also what does it mean that it's mostly it is older men? I know I do send out some sort of motherly, yet younger woman vibe that results in weird interactions and lonely men wanting to confide in me. This is not a demographic I'm aiming for. I'm not very naive, I've spent a number of years busking when I was younger for a summer job and so learned to be blunt when I needed to, and I generally keep a fairly good eye out for suspect people and listen to my gut feelings.

 

[Fidelia]

Here's the thing, also. Do women tend to initiate contact as much as men? Why do you think this is?

Not as much, but pretty often. I've had strange ladies walk up to me in the middle of Costco (with my back to them, reading a magazine) and spontaneously pour out their life story and thoughts to me and finally invite me to come and visit them!

 

[Synarch]

Also what does it mean that it's mostly it is older men? I know I do send out some sort of motherly, yet younger woman vibe that results in weird interactions and lonely men wanting to confide in me. This is not a demographic I'm aiming for. I'm not very naive, I've spent a number of years busking when I was younger for a summer job and so learned to be blunt when I needed to, and I generally keep a fairly good eye out for suspect people and listen to my gut feelings.

Vis a vis older men, it is easy to explain.

To an older man, young women are not equals, never peers. So they tend to be more readily objectified and seen as objects of desire. It has been interesting to see in myself. When I see young women (early 20's for example), I cannot imagine relating to them as a peer. There is something off. Some distance created by the difference in age and experience. But, they can still be attractive in a particular and narrow sense.

 

[Synarch]

Not as much, but pretty often. I've had strange ladies walk up to me in the middle of Costco (with my back to them, reading a magazine) and spontaneously pour out their life story and thoughts to me and finally invite me to come and visit them!

Yeah, that honestly never happens to me. But I'm fairly tall, bearded, and often looking disdainful.

 

[the state i am in]

It seems to be more a result of their own straightforwardness. They can assume that everyone is as straightforward and in control as they are.

i can imagine this leading to unhealthy gossip? or an occasional awkward situation?

the only time i have ever been in an inappropriate situation involved an entp female, ironically enough. she seemed on a mission to get me drunk. and i think it was just to see if she could.

Here's the thing, also. Do women tend to initiate contact as much as men? Why do you think this is?

i agree in pessimism but see additional factors as well. men also crave the nurturing discussed earlier. they crave the feeling. they crave the freedom from other men who bullshit and make a bunch of grandiose bullshit claims about their own greatness. locker room talk, etc.

there's an infj girl in my class and i'm constantly paying attention to her. i want to know her more. but it's NOT romantic. the only thing is that if she were a dude, i would be crossing lines even more than i am just by wanting to interact with her.

i too see the world as full of contradiction, temptation, and conflict. but i see them as inescapable, and while the rules you make seem to produce a far higher form of ethical behavior that is extremely admirable, i am afraid of preventing life, from making it too constrained, wilted, etc. i feel that the ultimate truth of these fears is not strictly an inherent truth of value or rule, but also those values and rules in place set up for my own security, to absolve my fears, to say that i know the answer, etc. but i don't, and moving toward being able to be the victim, in this case, seems equally beneficial and healthy to me as eliminating cheating from society completely through a hard and fast rule.

 

[Synarch]

i can imagine this leading to unhealthy gossip? or an occasional awkward situation?

the only time i have ever been in an inappropriate situation involved an entp female, ironically enough. she seemed on a mission to get me drunk. and i think it was just to see if she could.

Ah. I do think devil-may-care types could take advantage of a trusting INFJ. That is funny, though.

i agree in pessimism but see additional factors as well. men also crave the nurturing discussed earlier. they crave the feeling. they crave the freedom from other men who bullshit and make a bunch of grandiose bullshit claims about their own greatness. locker room talk, etc.

there's an infj girl in my class and i'm constantly paying attention to her. i want to know her more. but it's NOT romantic. the only thing is that if she were a dude, i would be crossing lines even more than i am just by wanting to interact with her.

i too see the world as full of contradiction, temptation, and conflict. but i see them as inescapable, and while the rules you make seem to produce a far higher form of ethical behavior that is extremely admirable, i am afraid of preventing life, from making it too constrained, wilted, etc. i feel that the ultimate truth of these fears is not strictly an inherent truth of value or rule, but also those values and rules in place set up for my own security, to absolve my fears, to say that i know the answer, etc. but i don't, and moving toward being able to be the victim, in this case, seems equally beneficial and healthy to me as eliminating cheating from society completely through a hard and fast rule.

These are good points, I think. I tend to fear my lack of control so I try to control circumstances, even artificially. I confess it's not always effective nor the best approach. I feel like I have to set up systems to bind myself to good behavior. INFJ's seem a bit more confident in their own responses to situations because they tend to be consistent, in some way.

 

[Fidelia]

Sometimes they are overconfident though and forget they are human. If the stakes are high enough, I prefer to put rules on my conduct as a preventative measure. "Better to shun the bait than struggle in the snare".

 

[Synarch]

Sometimes they are overconfident though and forget they are human. If the stakes are high enough, I prefer to put rules on my conduct as a preventative measure. "Better to shun the bait than struggle in the snare".

Yes, well that's why I feel it's best to acknowledge temptation. Otherwise it's easy to start letting yourself off the hook. At least it has been for me. I was at a party once a few years ago and I was talking to a married friend. She told me in passing, "You're dangerous." and I knew what she meant. It wasn't that I was on the prowl, or that I was a person who would do something I knew was wrong. I wasn't even flirting with her AT ALL. I think she just sensed a vulnerability. Far better to acknowledge its existence and try to be mindful.

 

[Fidelia]

Yeah, I don't think all mistakes have to be achieved first hand.

 

[the state i am in]

Ah. I do think devil-may-care types could take advantage of a trusting INFJ. That is funny, though.

These are good points, I think. I tend to fear my lack of control so I try to control circumstances, even artificially. I confess it's not always effective nor the best approach. I feel like I have to set up systems to bind myself to good behavior. INFJ's seem a bit more confident in their own responses to situations because they tend to be consistent, in some way.

i'm just opening it up a bit because that's what i do. my entp friend always wants to find rules. the influence has made me a far better person than i was before knowing him, and his own combination of rules and vision generally is why i go to him for guidance before anyone else. Ne and Ti fulfills my two biggest needs internally, Ne makes me more positive outcome focused, toward thinking vs away from, and Ti gives me the finishing touch, the final foundation to feel secure, firm-footed, etc.

i've seen the growth process for Ti in many many people. my little brother is right on the border of intp/entp 3w4. i've seen how ethical Ti can become and the positive influence it can have in ethical discourse/practices. i just think we can both learn our own best methods, balance ourselves as well as we can, learn from other approaches, and still be capable of trusting our methods while seeing a bigger picture than we can possibly encapsulate as but one individual.

also, for the most part, i'm not really interested in devil-may-care people. i have been seriously risk aversive in relationships, and i am just now slowly building up a faith in my ability to gradually introduce more elements into my social life. i am interested in absorbing as many perspectives as possible, but i've already figured out what resonates with me and how i relate. at this point it's just refining, testing, and being grateful that i am now capable of being happy. and expanding and developnig the best connections, learning how to communicate better, and inspire and be inspired by others.

 

[Synarch]

i'm just opening it up a bit because that's what i do. my entp friend always wants to find rules. the influence has made me a far better person than i was before knowing him, and his own combination of rules and vision generally is why i go to him for guidance before anyone else. Ne and Ti fulfills my two biggest needs internally, Ne makes me more positive outcome focused, toward thinking vs away from, and Ti gives me the finishing touch, the final foundation to feel secure, firm-footed, etc.

This rule making seems to be the result of an extraverted approach to the world.

 

[the state i am in]

This rule making seems to be the result of an extraverted approach to the world.

i'm not sure what you mean. i just assumed it was a straight shot for Ti.

 

[Synarch]

i'm not sure what you mean. i just assumed it was a straight shot for Ti.

Rather than formulate rules for myself I try to extrapolate "laws" of human conduct at work in the world.

 

[Fidelia]

Doesn't everyone do that? Wait, I guess not, but...how do people formulate their personal guidelines without observing general principles in society and the effects of keeping them or breaking them?