[INFJ] Making sense of my INFJ friend.

[Snow Turtle]

Hey Kai,

Many times when these forced confrontations happen, I know the person just wants to hear me say what I'm really thinking so that I can move on. For INFJs to do that though... it's hard. It's not going to make the INFJ feel better and they know that saying the truth will also hurt the other person - that's two FAILs right there. It's sorta like a husband telling his wife 'Yes' when she asks 'Do you think I'm fat?'. INFJs AVOID no-win situations like that.

I know this isn't fun for you. Sorry, man.

Torture seems much more worse than a swift death.

I'm not likely to experience any pain from hearing the truth now since I experienced it when I was stressing over our friendship. Now I'm just mostly detached.

Why confront her if I'm so detached? I still care enough about whether we're still friends, but no longer so attached that I would suffer if she decides that we're not.

It's just the final push really. So that I'll know whether to just continue as normal, or just remove myself from her life completely.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

^the problem is you might not get a straight answer.

 

[Fidelia]

It's very unlikely you'll get a straight answer. Anything she does tell you will have subtext. You've made it clear that you would like to continue on a low level friendship. She thinks she's made it clear that she would not, and would likely prefer not to tell you so in person. If I'm really upset and I think there's nothing left to lose, sometimes I'll tell a person exactly what they've done that is so wrong or if I'm close to someone and I really want things between us to be good again, I may say it straight out. I've gotten better at being blunter, especially towards T types. However, I'm going to say that it's more likely that not that she'll be annoyed at you asking (making the likelihood of anything in the future much less) and that you still won't have closure.

You'd be better off acknowledging that you know there's been increasing distance, suggesting several possible theories for why you think that may be and see where she goes from there if you truly want to know. (Especially, acknowledge that while you are aware school is busy, you know the real issue is not school). No guarantees there, but I predict much more success than you asking where things are at with her and what kind of relationship she wants to have. As far as she's concerned you don't really have any kind of relationship at present.

 

[Quiet]

Being INFJ is so darn contradicting... We don't want to hurt anyone, yet we lie to manage that, and it's silly. I agree with Wyst's post.

 

[Wyst]

I do not have much experience when it comes to this topic, but I do know that in relationships, relying on "Hints" in communication is rarely a good idea.

Doesn't matter if the other person is a born psychic with gigantic intuition antennas that go beep... beep...beep... sticking out from their foreheads.

There is always a chance that the hints which you think are clear, are actually garbled, fuzzy and uncertain to the other person.

I much prefer a blunt openness, than being in limbo. Sure, the truth would cut like a knife, but it's the difference between a quick, sharp pain and slow torture.

I'm not saying that 'relying on hints' is the way to go. I'm saying that with INFJs, that's usually just the way it is.

 

[cascadeco]

On my Birthday; I receive a reply back from her. The letter talks about how pleased she was to receive my letter, and that we should keep in touch more often in future. On the rare occasion that I catch her online, she ends the conversation with 'I'd love to talk more but I have to go now'. Essentially, this all gives me impression that she still wants to still be friends.

She's just being polite. The 'I'd love to talk more...' thing is just a polite way (you could also say a canned response) of ending the conversation.

Yet, when talking to her online, often she gives the impression that she doesn't really care to chat. I find myself asking her questions constantly, only to receive back the most basic replies. The whole thing is essentially one sided, and it often makes me feel as if we're now just aquaintances. I try to rationalize the entire scenario by considering the possabilities that

If she's only giving basic, tactful responses, she's merely being polite. If she were really wanting a deep relationship, or saw a lasting connection, she'd be much more open, period. Time differences, and any other number of things aside -- those are irrelevent in the end...if she was really into you, she'd make time for you and would also be inquiring of you, and it wouldn't be nearly so one-sided.

Anyway, I'm sorry. I think I remember posting in a thread you posted on this a while ago, seeking input... and I'm sorry to hear you're still somewhat wrapped up in her. Letting go can be hard... but I'm really seeing no signs that she has any interest in continuing things. I'm sure the 'tact' thing sucks, but kinda what Wyst was saying... INFJ's really do hate hurting people...*especially* when there's absolutely no hard feelings and no animosity, it's just that we don't see the relationship going anywhere and therefore have no desire to invest in it... . and 'I don't want to talk to you at all, anymore' is a hard thing to say/write. I've actually done the latter, but would have preferred everything just fading away into nothing, without my actually having to deliver the harsh message.

 

[Tiltyred]

Stop contacting her and see what happens. That's the only real way to know, IMO.

 

[Snow Turtle]

Stop contacting her and see what happens. That's the only real way to know, IMO.

I get the feeling that the answer is that I'd receive no reply. It wouldn't surprise me that the only thing that's stopping her from dropping the entire relation is the fact that I'm still contacting with her. So in a sense, our friendship has probably dropped to the level where if I don't initiate, then I won't be speaking to her. Looking at it from that perspective, it's really not a friendship anymore.

Guess I'll just send her a final birthday wish and then leave it. I've mulled over it a little longer, and there isn't really any rush to find out the 'truth' as I can operate on the basis that she's no longer interested in being friends. Time will tell if this assumption is wrong, but it's mostly correct.

Thanks everyone for the guidance. Think I've finally come to a rough conclusion on how to move forward.

 

[purplesunset]

I get the feeling that the answer is that I'd receive no reply [from her]. It wouldn't surprise me that the only thing that's stopping her from dropping the entire relation is the fact that I'm still contacting with her. So in a sense, our friendship has probably dropped to the level where if I don't initiate, then I won't be speaking to her. Looking at it from that perspective, it's really not a friendship anymore.

I suspected that too, which is why I said above that your situation is a very painful one.

Do you think that physical distance and the means of communication is playing a role? Do you think things would be different if you were physically talking to each other, as opposed to using letters?

Perhaps INFJ's are an "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" type. Or maybe they need to have a person whom they can physically touch and physically be in proximity to in order to get the cues that they need to feel close to someone.

This goes against what being intuitive is all about, but maybe since INFJ's have Fe, they really need that element of human touch and human proximity.

 

[SilkRoad]

I suspected that too, which is why I said above that your situation is a very painful one.

Do you think that physical distance and the means of communication is playing a role? Do you think things would be different if you were physically talking to each other, as opposed to using letters?

Perhaps INFJ's are an "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" type. Or maybe they need to have a person whom they can physically touch and physically be in proximity to in order to get the cues that they need to feel close to someone.

This goes against what being intuitive is all about, but maybe since INFJ's have Fe, they really need that element of human touch and human proximity.

Speaking for myself, I don't think that's the case. I have friends (who I had known in my physical vicinity for years previously) who I haven't lived close to for years but I feel closer to them than ever. We fairly regularly exchange emails or speak on the phone and with the advent of Facebook we often have a little contact almost every day.

I think INFJs are supposed to be quite good at maintaining long distance friendships or relationships when they want to. However, if I want/need someone out of my life (doesn't happen very often), not having them around physically will really help with the healing process, though it can still take a long time because they may still be in my thoughts so much (even unwillingly.)

On the other hand...maybe none of what I just said is type related.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I get the feeling that the answer is that I'd receive no reply. It wouldn't surprise me that the only thing that's stopping her from dropping the entire relation is the fact that I'm still contacting with her. So in a sense, our friendship has probably dropped to the level where if I don't initiate, then I won't be speaking to her. Looking at it from that perspective, it's really not a friendship anymore.

Guess I'll just send her a final birthday wish and then leave it. I've mulled over it a little longer, and there isn't really any rush to find out the 'truth' as I can operate on the basis that she's no longer interested in being friends. Time will tell if this assumption is wrong, but it's mostly correct.

Thanks everyone for the guidance. Think I've finally come to a rough conclusion on how to move forward.

That sounds like a healthy way to leave it. Hopefully you'll get some relief now that you have come to some mental acceptance of it. It will get easier with time.

I suspected that too, which is why I said above that your situation is a very painful one.

Do you think that physical distance and the means of communication is playing a role? Do you think things would be different if you were physically talking to each other, as opposed to using letters?

Perhaps INFJ's are an "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" type. Or maybe they need to have a person whom they can physically touch and physically be in proximity to in order to get the cues that they need to feel close to someone.

This goes against what being intuitive is all about, but maybe since INFJ's have Fe, they really need that element of human touch and human proximity.

Not speaking for all INFJs here, but that is exactly how I am. Unless I like someone very, very much, in which case I will be happy for a long distance thing, I personally do not like to continue distance friendships. It's not even a question of choice for me. I just don't do it. I don't keep up with high school friends (even on facebook), beyond the occasional obligatory email; and even if you live near me, but don't make an real effort to get together fairly regularly, I'm probably going to move on. I just am sort-of all or nothing that way, as harsh as it sounds.

 

[Vasilisa]

Not speaking for all INFJs here, but that is exactly how I am. Unless I like someone very, very much, in which case I will be happy for a long distance thing, I personally do not like to continue distance friendships. It's not even a question of choice for me. I just don't do it. I don't keep up with high school friends (even on facebook), beyond the occasional obligatory email; and even if you live near me, but don't make an real effort to get together fairly regularly, I'm probably going to move on. I just am sort-of all or nothing that way, as harsh as it sounds.

Completely the same here. Only once did I have a long distance friend that I corresponded with for a long time, but I started to realize it was becoming more some kind of journal writing exercise for me than true pen-pal friendship. I feel bad that I'm not a good long distance friend, but I have to accept that its pretty much how it is. But my memories of and feelings about people don't disappear.


I also wish you well on this resolution, Kai.

 

[cascadeco]

Not speaking for all INFJs here, but that is exactly how I am. Unless I like someone very, very much, in which case I will be happy for a long distance thing, I personally do not like to continue distance friendships. It's not even a question of choice for me. I just don't do it. I don't keep up with high school friends (even on facebook), beyond the occasional obligatory email; and even if you live near me, but don't make an real effort to get together fairly regularly, I'm probably going to move on. I just am sort-of all or nothing that way, as harsh as it sounds.

I have really close friends who I treasure greatly, and who after they move away I continue to keep in touch and the minute we meet up in person again, even if it's been a few years, we immediately pick up where we left off as if there hadn't been a long gap.

I will say though that I'm not one who maintains these things in a very tangible, periodic way: I might only talk on the phone a handful of times a year with them (once every 3 months can be kinda standard for me), and emails are more frequent but tend not to be pen-pal-ish...little notes now and then... our real 'talking' is done over phone those few times a year.

But, if I don't consider someone a *really* good friend who I want to maintain over a lifetime (or whatever), sometimes the relationship might have a defined timeline - we're friends for a while, then we grow apart, or one or both of us end up moving in a different direction or have different needs that are no longer being met. That sort of thing. I've come to terms with some relationships being that way - and that that's o.k. Also, for people I'm not super deep with, and people I'm more just casual friends with, or acquaintances, I don't maintain the relationship - at all - once I'd move away. To be perfectly frank, I see absolutely no point in doing that. Might sound harsh, but the reality is that I, like aphrodite, tend to be all-or-nothing, and I tend not to see much purpose in maintaining something in a half-assed way, if I'm not *fully* in it. Not fair to the other person for sure, and also for me, I just don't have the energy or desire to maintain it. I have a finite amount of energy and certain priorities in my life - I'm all about maximizing certain things, and letting other things go that aren't my true priorities or relationships I really want to build upon.

 

[Tiltyred]

Completely the same here. Only once did I have a long distance friend that I corresponded with for a long time, but I started to realize it was becoming more some kind of journal writing exercise for me than true pen-pal friendship. I feel bad that I'm not a good long distance friend, but I have to accept that its pretty much how it is. But my memories of and feelings about people don't disappear.

That's exactly how I am, too.

 

[Fidelia]

Me too. I kind of go in fits and starts. If I were to meet up with them, it would still be quite warm unless something had happened to make us seriously drift apart. The closer I was too them, the harder it is too. I think I am too perfectionistic and expect that if I am going to write them, I'll do it for real. Then it becomes such a huge task and I feel so guilty over how long I've delayed it that I just give up. Occasionally I may phone and have a huge long catchup. However some of my friends have small children and I'm never certain of whether its a good time to talk or my male friends have a spouse, so I don't want to impose.

 

[Vasilisa]

Me too. I kind of go in fits and starts. If I were to meet up with them, it would still be quite warm unless something had happened to make us seriously drift apart. The closer I was too them, the harder it is too. I think I am too perfectionistic and expect that if I am going to write them, I'll do it for real. Then it becomes such a huge task and I feel so guilty over how long I've delayed it that I just give up. Occasionally I may phone and have a huge long catchup. However some of my friends have small children and I'm never certain of whether its a good time to talk or my male friends have a spouse, so I don't want to impose.

+1 I get that perfectionistic pressure in these kinds of instances, too.

 

[purplesunset]

I admire your honesty guys.

This thread, along with this one and that one

makes INFJ's seem like the cat that would eat her owner's corpse if he suddenly dropped dead of a heart attack.

It doesn't matter that the owner had lovingly fed and cared for the cat over the years. As far as the cat is concerned, the relationship is over, and the old man no longer serves a purpose except one...food.

 

[Tiltyred]

Owners, humans,
what we like to eat
bite their little ears off
nibble on their feet!

mrrrow

 

[Snow Turtle]

But, if I don't consider someone a *really* good friend who I want to maintain over a lifetime (or whatever), sometimes the relationship might have a defined timeline - we're friends for a while, then we grow apart, or one or both of us end up moving in a different direction or have different needs that are no longer being met. That sort of thing. I've come to terms with some relationships being that way - and that that's o.k. Also, for people I'm not super deep with, and people I'm more just casual friends with, or acquaintances, I don't maintain the relationship - at all - once I'd move away. To be perfectly frank, I see absolutely no point in doing that. Might sound harsh, but the reality is that I, like aphrodite, tend to be all-or-nothing, and I tend not to see much purpose in maintaining something in a half-assed way, if I'm not *fully* in it. Not fair to the other person for sure, and also for me, I just don't have the energy or desire to maintain it. I have a finite amount of energy and certain priorities in my life - I'm all about maximizing certain things, and letting other things go that aren't my true priorities or relationships I really want to build upon.

Yeah. I'm sort of an all-or-nothing sort of individual as well when it comes to selecting friends and maintaining contact so I do understand this perspective. In a twisted way, it's kind of interesting to see how other people might feel when I'm withdrawing from them. Granted there's a difference between close once upon a time, and not being close in the first place.